Judgment Seat of Christ

[jgredline]

The reward in those verses and all that the word "reward" encompasses is Jesus, we receive the "whole tamale" not just part or segments.
GMS

So when Jesus says store up treasures (plural) in heaven, he is speaking of multiple Jesus's? :o

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Gabbylittleangel,
If you are concerned with verses that talk of rewards, revisited Ephesians 2:8-9 and hopefully it will be apparent to you that our faith is also a gift from God, less we boast.
In all fairness, one should not argue a person's point, if they refuse to read the sources they use to support their side. Now the rewards is not the issue, we receive rewards, because of Jesus not because something we were able to do. I am sorry if I can not make my self clear on this, but I believe it is a paramount issue in the church today. Thankfully, grace will see it's day.
In Christ's love, GMS

The Judgment Seat of Christ.
..
...Could it be, we have not logically and systematically examined these verses in the light of the finished work of the Cross? Instead we have assume there are literal rewards given to the more obedient believers and that the nomimal believers are just glad they made it to heaven by the "skin of their teeth", so to speak. If this is true, are there degrees of Christianity?
GMS

My mistake. I had thought that rewards (received @ The Judgment Seat of Christ) was the issue.

 

[GMS]

So when Jesus says store up treasures (plural) in heaven, he is speaking of multiple Jesus's? :o

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 9:16-18:
“For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel. For if I do this voluntarily, I have a REWARD; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me. WHAT THEN IS MY REWARD? THAT WHEN I PREACH THE GOSPEL, I MAY OFFER THE GOSPEL WITHOUT CHARGE, SO AS NOT TO MAKE FULL USE OF MY RIGHT IN THE GOSPELâ€Â

Paul seems to not to be expecting any literal rewards like merit badges for all he did, with this passage. Remember he is the one who penned chapter 3. In part, the rewards we will receive are seeing all those lives the Lord used us as instruments for. So along with all the treasures and more that I listed that we receive in Jesus; we also get to see the treasures of individual lives that we influence through the power of God. Not multiple Jesus’, multiple gifts.
In Christ, GMS

 

[GMS]

My mistake. I had thought that rewards (received @ The Judgment Seat of Christ) was the issue.

Only in the sense that we claim the reward is something other then Christ in us causing us to work out His purposes.
GMS

 

[Veritas]

Hey guys,
I have a hard time thinking of rewards as "merit badges". That's not what anybody thinks right?

I like how Gabby described rewards...

He is preparing a place for me.
...It is a place that He is preparing with me in mind.

The verse Javier pointed out also speaks to me:

Matt 6:19 19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

How exactly do we lay up treasures in heaven?

I'd assume it's ultimately by letting Jesus be in the drivers seat and looking towards our Father rather than earthly things.

Can someone point me to a verse that fleshes out Matt 6:19-20 more...(maybe I should go back up and review what was posted too )

 

[GMS]

Hey guys,
I have a hard time thinking of rewards as "merit badges". That's not what anybody thinks right?
How exactly do we lay up treasures in heaven?

Matthew 6:19-21

"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

"Some theologians by this verse teach that not only does this justify individual meritorious rewards at the Bema seat, but it tells us to pursue them. But again, that is a careless reading of the text. This verse first of all does not in any sense teach that believers will receive varying rewards depending upon their own merit, it does not even mention the Bema seat, and it does not tell us to pursue such rewards (payments). Rather, it points out the uselessness of possessing earthly 'treasures,' and the glory of laying up spiritual 'treasures' which are incorruptible. The treasure (not reward, meaning payment) in view is Christ, a spiritual riches which is in us a tree of Life, not a meritorious reward or payment because we have evangelized greatly, or worked harder than the next Christian in the mission field. But the fact that we are rich in Christ." Tony Warren.

Veritas, I have a hard time imaginning individual "merit badges" or anything of that sort, but if we receive everything else in Jesus: See Jesus face to face, crowns , new bodies, perfect health, knowledge, new wardrobe, a place to dwell etc, what are those rewards going to be for those who explain 1 Corinthians 3:10f in this way? Or any way that doesn't give God the glory for the gifts he gifted us with in the first place.

In Christ, GMS

 

[jgredline]

Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 9:16-18:
“For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel. For if I do this voluntarily, I have a REWARD; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me. WHAT THEN IS MY REWARD? THAT WHEN I PREACH THE GOSPEL, I MAY OFFER THE GOSPEL WITHOUT CHARGE, SO AS NOT TO MAKE FULL USE OF MY RIGHT IN THE GOSPELâ€Â

Paul seems to not to be expecting any literal rewards like merit badges for all he did, with this passage. Remember he is the one who penned chapter 3. In part, the rewards we will receive are seeing all those lives the Lord used us as instruments for. So along with all the treasures and more that I listed that we receive in Jesus; we also get to see the treasures of individual lives that we influence through the power of God. Not multiple Jesus’, multiple gifts.
In Christ, GMS

I was going to let this go, but then it would seem like a contradiction and the bible does not contradict itself....To many folks don't understand the words of Paul and so they get discounted or put above Christ words....Lets take a close look....

1 cor 9:16 For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for necessity is laid upon me; yes, woe is me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have been entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What is my reward then? That when I preach the gospel, I may present the gospel of Christ without charge, that I may not abuse my authority in the gospel.

In verse 16 we read see the words ''woe is me if I do not preach the gospel''
Why is Paul saying this? Does this also mean woe to us who do not preach the gospel? No...You need to understand that Paul's ministry was unique to him and him alone....Jesus himself trained Paul...Jesus himself appointed Paul to preach....So then the question is this...Did Paul not have ''any'' reward....With out going through his letters in detail but staying with in the compounds and context of his letters to the Corinthians, I quickly see two of them.... In the previous verse (15) we read....''15 But I have used none of these things, nor have I written these things that it should be done so to me; for it would be better for me to die than that anyone should make my boasting void.'' Here Paul is saying that he would rather be dead than to stop preaching....His reward here ''on earth'' was preaching....

Now lets look further ahead....2 Co 7:2 Open your hearts to us. We have wronged no one, we have corrupted no one, we have cheated no one. 3 I do not say this to condemn; for I have said before that you are in our hearts, to die together and to live together. 4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my boasting on your behalf. I am filled with comfort. I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

Now again here we read that Paul was a preacher who took ''great'' Joy in preaching but filled with comfort and was exceedingly joyful in the fact that his teaching was taken to heart and was able to take his reward in the fact that his teaching was indeed helping the church....Again earthly rewards...

I can't even begin to imagine what size treasure chest Paul has waiting for him when the rewards are passed out....

So there are earthly rewards and there are heavenly rewards....

Now I am 110% sure the bible teaches rewards....If I am out in left field someplace with out a glove, let me know and point me to the scriptures....

 

[Veritas]

Javier, GMS,

So.. I was looking at the verse GMS gave and read up from it a bit...

I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 1 Corinthians 3:6

Paul does acknowlege it's all God here, not his(Paul's) works. But then Paul goes on...

The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building. 1 Corinthians 3:7-9

That reward seems to be according to what we are doing and not just the reward that we are saved. And then Paul goes back to acknowledging God's work and grace...

By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

:-? I'm still having a hard time with this. It sounds as if some will be saved but not recieving as much reward as others. Like some will be saved but only by the skin of their teeth.

But then I think - Aren't we all in the same boat...all just escaping through the flames?

Maybe this is just a perception thing. I mean if you spent all your life focusing on buying lots of land and getting yourself a giant house, yeah once you see that you won't have it in the next life, you're going to be a little disappointed at first. But shouldn't believers know this already?

I have to pray about this.

 

[jgredline]

Javier, GMS,


:-? I'm still having a hard time with this. It sounds as if some will be saved but not recieving as much reward as others. Like some will be saved but by the skin of their teeth.



I have to pray about this.

This is exactly what it is saying....Like I said earlier...Heaven is perfect. There will be no ugly green monster.....no envy, no strife...Take the thief on the cross...He made it by the skin of his teeth...No or little reward, but he made it in as opposed to burning forever in hell....I would say he got a great reward...

Take the Paul or Peter or John...They will have treasure chest full of stuff...what stuff, who knows, but they will have more than the theif

 

[GMS]

One problem I have notice with this thread I started, is that the stuff that has been posted really isn't read and seldom address. I have Gabbylittleangel saying I posted all these passages that talk about rewards then I go against what they say, when in reality these passages some of which have been brought up to use as fuel against my thoughts, have already been explained, but they went unread in the beginning. Now no one really address these other verses I posted and tried to make harmony with Paul's passage in 1Cor. 3:10f, here another opportunity:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Philippians 2:13
• "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
Hebrews 13:20-21
• "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
• Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Ephesians 2:10
• "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
1st Corinthians 3:9
• "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."
2nd Corinthians 4:7
• "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
1st Corinthians 15:10
• "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

GMS

 

[jgredline]

GMS
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I did address that verse in Corinthians you keep referring to but I do not understand what it is you are trying to say with all those verses....Can u explain?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Try this on for size:
Reward #1: Your family, friends, co-workers, or stadiums full of people will be there because you told them about Jesus Christ.

And then there is this:

Mat 19:27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, "See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?"
Mat 19:28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Mat 19:29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

You know, it sounds super Holy to be satisfied with getting through the door by the skin of your teeth. But it sounds nothing like what God has in mind. Notice the word hundredfold ~ and that in this lifetime. A God who paves streets with gold is not stingy. He says Himself that it is more blessed to give than to receive. How He must be blessed by giving to those who will accept what He has to give.

Let me as you this. Have you ever put a lot of thought into a gift for someone that you thought was really special? Maybe spent a lot of time or money or effort to find just the right thing, only to have them tell you "No thanks. It is beautiful. It is exactly what I want. But just seems wrong for me to take it."

 

[jgredline]

ai ya yai...the bible is not a difficult book to understand...God says what he means and he means what he says...It really is that simple.... :robot: Its looking at me again.....

 

[Vic C.]

ai ya yai...the bible is not a difficult book to understand...God says what he means and he means what he says...It really is that simple.... :robot: Its looking at me again.....

:o


: I just had to chuckle at that statement. Wanna go discuss some more of Revelation? :-D

 

[jgredline]

:o


: I just had to chuckle at that statement. Wanna go discuss some more of Revelation? :-D

I am with you. I have been waiting for your comments back to see if I am on the right track 8-)

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

GMS
I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Ditto.

:o


: I just had to chuckle at that statement. Wanna go discuss some more of Revelation? :-D

I'm right behind you.

 

[GMS]

GMS
I have no idea what you are trying to say. I did address that verse in Corinthians you keep referring to but I do not understand what it is you are trying to say with all those verses....Can u explain?

If you read through the list of verses of my last post, you should readily see that it is God who is the one doing the works through us. As Jesus said "apart from Me, you can do nothing", so how does one reconcile these verses with individual merit in heaven if it all comes from God?
I am going to quit posting for a time, can you and Gabbylittleangel meditate on the ramifications of 1Corinthians 4:7.
Take care, GMS

 

[jgredline]

If you read through the list of verses of my last post, you should readily see that it is God who is the one doing the works through us. As Jesus said "apart from Me, you can do nothing", so how does one reconcile these verses with individual merit in heaven if it all comes from God?
I am going to quit posting for a time, can you and Gabbylittleangel meditate on the ramifications of 1Corinthians 4:7.
Take care, GMS

It is good to take a break at times, but I will say this...While it is God who does the work, we are Gods tools and it is up to us to choose weather or not we want to be used of God...God will not force us to do anything...So the choice is still ours...

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

...so how does one reconcile these verses with individual merit in heaven if it all comes from God?...

I reconcile them with Scripture. God says that He is a rewarder. How does He decide who gets what? That I don't know. Look around at all of the Christians who could have, should have or would have done something, but did not, and it is easy to understand the loss of rewards. Look at those Christians who are not only doing their job, but part of somebody elses, and it is easy to see that God will be well pleased with them.

GMS,
If you feel like your toes have been stepped on in someway, or that you have been treated unfairly, I apologize. It was not intended.

1Cr 4:6 ¶ And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and [to] Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think [of men] above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Cr 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ [from another]? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive [it], why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received [it]?

This was written to those who were comparing their spiritual gifts, and'name dropping' so to speak. It is not in reference to obedience, or willingness to serve the Lord.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

One problem I have notice with this thread I started, is that the stuff that has been posted really isn't read and seldom address....

Let me see now.
Hmm. I read this.

Could it be, we have not logically and systematically examined these verses in the light of the finished work of the Cross? Instead we have assume there are literal rewards given to the more obedient believers and that the nomimal believers are just glad they made it to heaven by the "skin of their teeth", so to speak. If this is true, are there degrees of Christianity?
GMS

....It seems to me that since anything we actually do of a kingdom of God nature comes from Him; wouldn’t any rewards we receive be actually God gifting us with the works He worked through us? Thus, He gets all the glory. May be our reward is simply Christ and the gift of proclaiming Him to others.

.....

I read that one. I agreed that much of our reward will be that by reaching others for the Lord, that our loved ones in Heaven will be a part of the reward.

Paul says that we will "receive a reward". Jim Minker writes “Now, just what do you suppose this reward is? Is it the stuff that's left over after the fire hits the pile? If so, notice that building materials don't make it through this fire, so what are you going to build your mansion with? But it doesn't even say that the "reward" is taken out of the gold, silver, or precious stones that remain, does it? Now, even though it may seem that Paul left much to our imaginations as to the nature of these rewards, he did not intend it to be so. For he told us EXACTLY what the "reward" for his "planting" ministry was. “
1 Corinthians 9:16-18
For if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel. For if I do this voluntarily, I have a REWARD; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me. WHAT THEN IS MY REWARD? THAT WHEN I PREACH THE GOSPEL, I MAY OFFER THE GOSPEL WITHOUT CHARGE, SO AS NOT TO MAKE FULL USE OF MY RIGHT IN THE GOSPEL.

GMS

That there is true also. (Uh-oh. Dagnabit, Durn if I don't be soundin like Grandpa a`gin)

I am with you Veritas, this reward stuff doesn't make much sense in the knowledge of the finish work of Jesus on the Cross . GMS

Read that one up there and totally disagreed. I believe that the confusion comes in when one mixes up if you are saved or not (based on what you do with the Cross) with stuff like if you serve Him willingly. If you are obedient. Did you pray. Did you care if other people got saved. Did you recite the sinners prayer and then play with witchcraft for the rest of your life. Did you give to others. Did you simply write checks to missions in lieu of actually doing something yourself. Did you do what He said when He said the way He said, (follow your calling) or did you write your own job description, and go where you wanted to go, marry whom you wanted to marry etc.
Did you hold back on the Lord or did you give it all. Did you produce 30% when you could have produced 100%.

It seems to me that almost every thread in these forums these days has been reduced to Are you saved or not saved. What made you saved or not saved. Who thinks they are saved when they are not. Etc. Granted, there is a line and people are on one side or the other. Those who are on the saved side of the line received the same salvation as everyone else on the saved side of the line. Some had a more difficult time in getting there than others, some waltzed across the line. But everyone on the same side of the line, is on the same side of the line.
THIS IS ABOUT SALVATION. PERIOD. AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REWARDS.


I read this one too. I thought the Tony Warren dude was off track on this.

To those who are interested in this idea of what reward we as believers have and what the unbeliever gets, Tony Warren elaborates:
Ruth 2:12

"The LORD recompense thy work, and a full reward be given thee of the LORD God of Israel, under whose wings thou art come to trust."
It is Biblically absurd to argue for additional personal rewards for the good that we do, or loss of them as judgement for any imperfection (which is sin), while all the while arguing it is not a judgement for sin. If we are not perfect in our works, we are in sin. It was for this reason that Christ went to the cross. That we 'could' appear before Him blameless, perfect, and without fault in all our works. That we 'could' appear before the Bema seat and be judged according to the work of Christ.
The Bema seat is not to punish believers I agree, but it is not to reward anyone based on his individual righteousness (meritorious works) either, for we are all worthy of a full reward of inheritance because we are without fault. And if any of our works could be faulted, it is sin, and the wages of sin is death, not loss of rewards. 'All' our punishment was paid for by Christ at the cross, and our reward was secured for us by that very same 'work' of the cross.

Colossians 3:24

"Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ."
The inheritance is not diverse crowns handed out at the Bema seat, it is that we were born of God, and have the seed of Christ remain in us that we are Sons of God, and heirs of the promise to the Son. There are scriptures which theologians use in their attempts to undermine this inheritance in Christ's Reward, but once carefully examined, none of them either support these doctrines, nor speak of diverse rewards for believers. One such passage often quoted is Revelation chapter 22:
Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
Their belief is that if every man is rewarded according to his own work, then believers shall receive different rewards. The problem with this 'assumption' is that this scripture doesn't say believers. It says every man. In other words, one man will receive reward for Good. And the other the reward for bad. Two different rewards, but for two different men. You see they totally misunderstand and thus misapply this verse. The wicked are rewarded also. What shall their reward be? The word reward [misthos], means payment for work. Thus (as it declares) every man shall be rewarded according to his own work, whether good or bad.

2nd Peter 2:13

"And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;"
The same word [misthos] meaning payment or reward for our labors. The wicked receive for his work the reward of damnation, and the righteous receive for his work, the reward of everlasting life in the inheritance of the Son. That is how Christ gives to every man according to his own work, whether good or bad. Because when every Christian is rewarded according to his work, then every one of them shall receive the exact same reward, seeing how every work of the man of God is without fault. Every one. God looks upon us all as blameless, and so how could any of us merit less than another? It is impossible.

2nd Timothy 3:17
"That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
Revelation 14:4-5
"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
They stand without fault before the King, and so how could one be faulted that he not receive the same reward that another receives? It is totally unbiblical to believe that one is better than another to be given rewards at the Bema seat. When we are rewarded according to our own works, one (the reprobate) is rewarded according to 'his own' evil work, and the other (the believer) is rewarded according to the Work of Christ on his behalf. He thus receives a full reward. There is no way to escape the obvious implication that our rewards are earned by our own righteousness or good. All we can say to that is, God forbid! "

I hope this helps. GMS
"

Gabbylittleangel,
Check out earlier post, Rev.22:12 is covered well, I think.
GMS
PS remember for the believer we are already seen as faultless in the Fathers eyes, that is our reward. 1John says it all in5:5 "Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God". gms

Faultless in the Fathers eyes. = salvation.

Are you absolutely sure that the Bible teaches rewards? Or are we missing something here. I for one can not logically see how it applies to us if Jesus covers our sins through His blood (even the sins of apathy).

gms

applies to salvation, again.

Also, if our ability to do works deserving of rewards comes from God (James 1:17) how can we be put on a scale with our fellow believers?
gms

No idea how you are applying that verse here.

Iam with Veritas, if the 24 Elders represent the redeemed, and we are taking off our crowns to lay before the throne, is this not a symbol that our rewards goes back to the one who made us able to be His instrument?
Just thinking on paper. GMS

The fact that we have crowns, does that in itself represent some kind of a reward for something? Crowns represent things, do they not?

Hi Gabbylittleangel (you are the wrong species to be an angel),

Our theology on angels is probably very different too. We can save that for another thread.

All the verses you have listed I would say there are one of two possible rewards, life with Jesus or life without Jesus.

Back to salvation again.

I do not want "pass the buck", but revisit my posting on this thread by Tony Warren, and may be you will catch his "drift" about rewards. If not I will try a little harder myself. Also, remember the verses I posted like 1 Corinthians 4:7 and try to harmonize with the verses you have posted.
In Christ, GMS
PS I need to think a bit about the notion of blessing instead reward as we understand it.

The reason why I persevere on this topic is that in my mind this whole concept of being rewarded for what we do is foreign to the message of the finish work of the cross.

Salvation again

Martin Luther once wrote that our very best deeds are sullied with sin. Our motivation for doing anything of a spiritual nature is always working through a veil of flesh that we must struggle with until glory.

Was he refering to a dead to self, born again, spirit-filled believer? Or to someone who was trying to work their way into heaven?

Gabbylittleangel,
If you are concerned with verses that talk of rewards, revisited Ephesians 2:8-9 and hopefully it will be apparent to you that our faith is also a gift from God, less we boast.

The key is what you do with your faith. Use it. put it to work. Or claim it as a free ride ticket.

In all fairness, one should not argue a person's point, if they refuse to read the sources they use to support their side.

HUH? I used the Word of God, and my walk with HIm to support what I believe.

Now the rewards is not the issue, we receive rewards, because of Jesus not because something we were able to do. I am sorry if I can not make my self clear on this,

I thought it was pretty clear. What I got from your posts is that you don't believe that Scripture says that God is a rewarder, and that every thing comes down to if you are saved or not. I disagreed with your point of view. That is totally different from not reading your posts. I simply did not absorb your doctrine. I also totally disagree with the viewpoint that because one believe that God gives rewards that we are trying to 'earn' anything.

Only in the sense that we claim the reward is something other then Christ in us causing us to work out His purposes.
GMS

This seems to make it to easy to say that God is responsible for our failures, and our lack of obedience. If He wanted it done. He would have made me do it.

I have Gabbylittleangel saying I posted all these passages that talk about rewards then I go against what they say, when in reality these passages some of which have been brought up to use as fuel against my thoughts, have already been explained, but they went unread in the beginning. Now no one really address these other verses I posted and tried to make harmony with Paul's passage in 1Cor. 3:10f, here another opportunity:

Philippians 2:13
• "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."
Hebrews 13:20-21
• "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
• Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Ephesians 2:10
• "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
1st Corinthians 3:9
• "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building."
2nd Corinthians 4:7
• "But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."
1st Corinthians 15:10
• "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."

GMS

It troubles me when people are bothered by God's generosity. If you don't want any rewards, I suppose that God, in His grace, will not force you to take them.
This gospel that you preach is dangerous to the children of the Kingdom. In between the lines one might read, why bother doing anything for God. If you are saved, you are saved and that is all there is, and that is all that matters. It is the sort of thing that could cause a weaker brother to stumble. My prayer is that others are encouraged by your thread, knowing that God is indeed a rewarder. That heaven is so wonderful and glorious, and He has a place for us and a work for us to do there.


Mat 25:14 ¶ For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.
Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.
Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
Mat 25:19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.
Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
Mat 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and [then] at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
Mat 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.