K
Kevin
Guest
Ijus wanted to know how many ppl keep keep sabbath holy??
Well i do! :-D thats because i'm a seventh day adventis!
Well i do! :-D thats because i'm a seventh day adventis!
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Rowan
Guest
How do you know what day the sabbath is, for sure?
We use a solar calendar, while the people of the Old Testament used a lunar one. In my time, it's Sunday now, but it really could be Tuesday for all I know.
Not attacking, just wondering.
We use a solar calendar, while the people of the Old Testament used a lunar one. In my time, it's Sunday now, but it really could be Tuesday for all I know.
Not attacking, just wondering.
J
Jay T
Guest
Remembering that the 7th day sabbath is the [sign] of loyalty to God......Rowan said:
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a [SIGN] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
The Lord Jesus Christ revealed to us which day the sabbath was (and is).....
Luke 23:52 This [man] went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Chapter 24
24:1 Now upon the first [day] of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with them.
24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
24:3 And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
The 7th day sabbath comes the day before...the Lord arose from the grave.
R
Rowan
Guest
Don't we celebrate the Ressurection on Easter?
Even though we I don't look down on people who celebrate Sunday as the Lord's Day, but I have found that, in this mindset, people only celebrate the Lord on this day.... :-?
To me, every day the Lord gives us is holy. I don't condemn anyone for observing the Sabbath, I just have little understanding as to why the SDAs had to branch off on this doctrine.
Even though they did celebrate the Sabbath in the New Testament, that day was established by Mosaic Law in the OT, hence what I said about the different calenders. The problem comes when keeping the Sabbath accurately is a duty, since it would be hard to pin down the exact date, not to mention that the life Jesus Christ (that is within all believers through the Spirit) supercedes the Sabbath.
The issue of breaking the Sabbath was brought to Jesus attention by the Pharisees:
Matthew 12:1-8 ~ 1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
2But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
3But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
4how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
5"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
6"But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
7"But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.
8"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Also, the Sabbath in the OT was needed to set a day for people to focus on God, but since our souls are renewed through the Spirit, we don't need the Sabbath to focus on God:
Mark 2:27 ~ The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
I guess my question is, what was the point of the SDA to focus on this, when the life of Jesus Christ have us in communion with God all week?
Just wondering.
Even though we I don't look down on people who celebrate Sunday as the Lord's Day, but I have found that, in this mindset, people only celebrate the Lord on this day.... :-?
To me, every day the Lord gives us is holy. I don't condemn anyone for observing the Sabbath, I just have little understanding as to why the SDAs had to branch off on this doctrine.
Even though they did celebrate the Sabbath in the New Testament, that day was established by Mosaic Law in the OT, hence what I said about the different calenders. The problem comes when keeping the Sabbath accurately is a duty, since it would be hard to pin down the exact date, not to mention that the life Jesus Christ (that is within all believers through the Spirit) supercedes the Sabbath.
The issue of breaking the Sabbath was brought to Jesus attention by the Pharisees:
Matthew 12:1-8 ~ 1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
2But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."
3But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
4how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
5"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?
6"But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
7"But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.
8"For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Also, the Sabbath in the OT was needed to set a day for people to focus on God, but since our souls are renewed through the Spirit, we don't need the Sabbath to focus on God:
Mark 2:27 ~ The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
I guess my question is, what was the point of the SDA to focus on this, when the life of Jesus Christ have us in communion with God all week?
Just wondering.
G
GundamZero
Guest
THe sabbath originally was just one day where we rested. It was a gift from God to allow us to be rejuevenated in mind and body. However, Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath rest. Thus, everyday is the Sabbath for a true believer because we can always rest in the Savior.
J
Jay T
Guest
Did Jesus Christ, ask anyone to keep Sunday, in honor of His resurrection ?Rowan said:
Does no onoe understand why....He was silent, on that matter ?
But, did Jesus warn people about worshipping in vain...teaching for commandments the sayings of men ?
While that seems commenable, it still is disobedience to the will of God, as per God's intructions......and remember that only those who do the commandments of God are getting into heaven.....
Revelation 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I should say not !
As they are showing their love and loyalty towards their Lord and Savior.....
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
First, the SDA church were taught the importance of the 7th day sabbath, from the 7th Day Baptists....who were practicing pure Bible teachings, long before the SDA church came along.
It must be remembered that the 7th day sabbath was established by God (Christ)......2300+ years ...BEFORE...there ever was a Jew (Genesis 2:2,3).
If that were true, then why did the disciples keep the 7th day sabbath all thru the book of Acts...long after Jesus Christ went back to heaven ?
On top of that, the New Testament is where we can find the absolute proof of when the 7th day sabbath is....(Luke 23:52-Luke 24:3), because in this Bible text we can find that the sabbath was the day before...Jesus arose from the grave.
20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.
Yes, the sabbath was made 'for ' man......yet, man rejects God's gift !!!
The work of Sabbath reform to be accomplished in the last days is foretold in the prophecy of Isaiah: "Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for My salvation is near to come, and My righteousness to be revealed.
Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil." "The sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants, everyone that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of My covenant; even them will I bring to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My house of prayer." Isaiah 56:1, 2, 6, 7.
These words apply in the Christian age, as shown by the context: "The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him." Verse 8.
Here is foreshadowed the gathering in of the Gentiles by the gospel.
And upon those who then honor the Sabbath, a blessing is pronounced. Thus the obligation of the fourth commandment extends past the crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, to the time when His servants should preach to all nations the message of glad tidings.
The Lord commands by the same prophet: "Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples." Isaiah 8:16. The seal of God's law is found in the fourth commandment. This only, of all the ten, brings to view both the name and the title of the Lawgiver.
It declares Him to be the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and thus shows His claim to reverence and worship above all others.
Aside from this precept, there is nothing in the Decalogue to show by whose authority the law is given. When the Sabbath was changed by the papal power, the seal was taken from the law.
The disciples of Jesus are called upon to restore it by exalting the Sabbath of the fourth commandment to its rightful position as the Creator's memorial and the sign of His authority.
"To the law and to the testimony." While conflicting doctrines and theories abound, the law of God is the one unerring rule by which all opinions, doctrines, and theories are to be tested. Says the prophet: "If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Verse 20.
Again, the command is given: "Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins."
It is not the wicked world, but those whom the Lord designates as "my people," that are to be reproved for their transgressions.
He declares further: "Yet they seek Me daily, and delight to know My ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God." Isaiah 58:1, 2.
Here is brought to view a class who think themselves righteous and appear to manifest great interest in the service of God; but the stern and solemn rebuke of the Searcher of hearts proves them to be trampling upon the divine precepts.
The prophet thus points out the ordinance which has been forsaken: "Thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable; and shalt honor Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord." Verses 12-14.
This prophecy also applies in our time.
The breach was made in the law of God when the Sabbath was changed by the Roman power (Daniel 7:25...'think to change times and laws').
But the time has come for that divine institution to be restored.
The breach is to be repaired and the foundation of many generations to be raised up.
R
R7-12
Guest
Hi Jay T,
I agree with you on the requirement to observe the Sabbaths of God and His law.
The Sabbaths (plural, i.e. all holy, appointed days of Almighty God) are a sign between the one true God and His servants. This sign is a perpetual covenant between God and all covenant-keeping people who are heirs of the promise and of the seed of Abraham, both physical and spiritual.
And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14‘You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15‘Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16‘Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17‘It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ †18And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God (Ex. 31:12-18, NKJV).
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:29, NKJV).
The renewed covenant is established by God with Israel and Judah (Jer. 31:31). The commandments remain but the means for atonement for sanctification leading to justification, righteousness and the gift of everlasting life has changed from physical to spiritual (Heb. 7:12; 8:4-6; 10:1-10). Hence the change in the law where the physical High Priest and sacrifices have been replaced and the righteous requirement of the law (death of the sinner) has been fulfilled by Messiah dying for us (Rom. 8:1-5).
Thus, obedience to God as a requirement is a no-brainer. It does not earn one salvation but is the bare minimum that God requires of those who are called to be blameless servants of Him (Matt. 19:17).
As the perfect sacrifice which the law requires to cover sin, and as our perfect example of obedience to our heavenly Father, Messiah is the central feature of the law of God (Heb. 5:8-10). Therefore, to remove the law is to remove Christ.
The restoration of the law of God has already commenced and will be completed by Messiah when he returns in jugement by the authority of his God and Father.
R7-12
I agree with you on the requirement to observe the Sabbaths of God and His law.
The Sabbaths (plural, i.e. all holy, appointed days of Almighty God) are a sign between the one true God and His servants. This sign is a perpetual covenant between God and all covenant-keeping people who are heirs of the promise and of the seed of Abraham, both physical and spiritual.
And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14‘You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15‘Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16‘Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17‘It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ †18And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God (Ex. 31:12-18, NKJV).
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:29, NKJV).
The renewed covenant is established by God with Israel and Judah (Jer. 31:31). The commandments remain but the means for atonement for sanctification leading to justification, righteousness and the gift of everlasting life has changed from physical to spiritual (Heb. 7:12; 8:4-6; 10:1-10). Hence the change in the law where the physical High Priest and sacrifices have been replaced and the righteous requirement of the law (death of the sinner) has been fulfilled by Messiah dying for us (Rom. 8:1-5).
Thus, obedience to God as a requirement is a no-brainer. It does not earn one salvation but is the bare minimum that God requires of those who are called to be blameless servants of Him (Matt. 19:17).
As the perfect sacrifice which the law requires to cover sin, and as our perfect example of obedience to our heavenly Father, Messiah is the central feature of the law of God (Heb. 5:8-10). Therefore, to remove the law is to remove Christ.
The restoration of the law of God has already commenced and will be completed by Messiah when he returns in jugement by the authority of his God and Father.
R7-12
S
Solo
Guest
Is keeping the sabbath day holy necessary for what?
Feeling good in the flesh?
Salvation?
How is one to keep the sabbath day holy? And why?
Feeling good in the flesh?
Salvation?
How is one to keep the sabbath day holy? And why?
R
R7-12
Guest
Hi Solo,
Observing the day that Almighty God sanctified and blessed as the weekly day of rest and worship, is not about a human desire to feel good in the flesh.
The only reason God's people keep the Sabbath is because God has revealed that the Sabbath is part of His system which He has given us to learn how to love and worship Him in a way that pleases Him.
Flesh would never voluntarily set aside the seventh day for the purpose of rest and worship of the one true God. Why?
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom. 8:7-8, NKJV).
The Sabbath conveys spiritual concepts that flesh and blood cannot see or understand because the carnal mind does not want to DO what our Creator instructs us to.
The reality is it is not complicated. God has commanded us to observe His word. Christ obeyed his heavenly Father perfectly, in every aspect of the law - both physically and spiritually. We are called to walk as Christ walked. The Messiah said it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one stroke of a letter to pass from the law to pass away. Thus the law of God stands.
Either we DO what God has commanded us in His written word - or we don't. It's a choice. And there's no need to argue about something that scripturally clear because darkness cannot overcome the light.
I hope that answers your questions,
R7-12
Observing the day that Almighty God sanctified and blessed as the weekly day of rest and worship, is not about a human desire to feel good in the flesh.
The only reason God's people keep the Sabbath is because God has revealed that the Sabbath is part of His system which He has given us to learn how to love and worship Him in a way that pleases Him.
Flesh would never voluntarily set aside the seventh day for the purpose of rest and worship of the one true God. Why?
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Rom. 8:7-8, NKJV).
The Sabbath conveys spiritual concepts that flesh and blood cannot see or understand because the carnal mind does not want to DO what our Creator instructs us to.
The reality is it is not complicated. God has commanded us to observe His word. Christ obeyed his heavenly Father perfectly, in every aspect of the law - both physically and spiritually. We are called to walk as Christ walked. The Messiah said it is easier for heaven and earth to pass than one stroke of a letter to pass from the law to pass away. Thus the law of God stands.
Either we DO what God has commanded us in His written word - or we don't. It's a choice. And there's no need to argue about something that scripturally clear because darkness cannot overcome the light.
I hope that answers your questions,
R7-12
S
Solo
Guest
Is ones salvation dependent upon keeping the Sabbath?
If one does not keep the Sabbath, will such a one enter the Kingdom of God?
If one does not keep the Sabbath, will such a one enter the Kingdom of God?
R
R7-12
Guest
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10, NKJV).
Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life... (Phil. 2:14-16, NKJV).
We are called to be blameless before the Lord our God just as Abraham was(Deut. 18:13; Gen. 17:1).
Can one be blameless and be granted everlasting life if he commits murder or adultery? (James 2:11).
Will the disobedient inherit everlasting life?
R7-12
Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life... (Phil. 2:14-16, NKJV).
We are called to be blameless before the Lord our God just as Abraham was(Deut. 18:13; Gen. 17:1).
Can one be blameless and be granted everlasting life if he commits murder or adultery? (James 2:11).
Will the disobedient inherit everlasting life?
R7-12
S
Solo
Guest
Salvation by works, huh?! I see.
Unless one is born of the flesh (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth), one cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God.
Those born of God do not sin, while the flesh is sold under sin. To keep the Sabbath today while under the grace of God, one must cease from their own works, and be about the works of God. All works that are done in the flesh will be burnt up like wood, hay, and stubble; while those works done in the Spirit will remain for eternity like precious stones, gold, and silver.
To believe that one recieves and keeps one's salvation by obeying the law is flawed thinking. If that was the way that it was, Jesus would not have had to be our propitiation.
Jesus paid the price for our sins yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Those that are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, but instead have eternal life. Once one is born of God, he is on the way to redemption, sealed by the Spirit of God of whom he is born.
Unless one is born of the flesh (physical birth) and born of the Spirit (Spiritual birth), one cannot see or enter the Kingdom of God.
Those born of God do not sin, while the flesh is sold under sin. To keep the Sabbath today while under the grace of God, one must cease from their own works, and be about the works of God. All works that are done in the flesh will be burnt up like wood, hay, and stubble; while those works done in the Spirit will remain for eternity like precious stones, gold, and silver.
To believe that one recieves and keeps one's salvation by obeying the law is flawed thinking. If that was the way that it was, Jesus would not have had to be our propitiation.
Jesus paid the price for our sins yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Those that are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, but instead have eternal life. Once one is born of God, he is on the way to redemption, sealed by the Spirit of God of whom he is born.
T
thessalonian
Guest
Sunday is the sabbath of the new covenant because that is the day Christ rose. But, yes, it is to be kept.
R
R7-12
Guest
The Law and the Sabbath
Solo,
You asked,
I don’t know how much more plain I can be so that you can understand.
Essentially you asked if a lawbreaker could inherit everlasting life. I responded with Scripture that clearly teaches that lawbreakers (the disobedient) will not enter the kingdom. That is not a theology of salvation by works.
God saves those who trust in the sacrifice He provided to cover our sins – His son Messiah. Thus we are saved by grace through faith. However, those who do not obey God will not be saved until they do trust Him and therefore obey Him.
One must have the spirit of God to have life. The Holy Spirit of God is not given to those who don’t obey God (Acts 5:32; 1 John 3:24).
Those who do not trust God do not obey God and their actions clearly demonstrate this. That’s why James said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18b, NKJV).
The matter is very clear, Jesus Christ said,
“The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42“and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 13:41-42, NKJV).
There is no escape clause for those who won’t do what God says, no matter how clever their arguments might be.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23, NKJV).
R7-12
Solo,
You asked,
My answer,
You responded,
I quoted Scripture and based on that you claim the Bible teaches salvation by works. The truth is the Bible doesn’t teach that and I never said it did.
I don’t know how much more plain I can be so that you can understand.
Essentially you asked if a lawbreaker could inherit everlasting life. I responded with Scripture that clearly teaches that lawbreakers (the disobedient) will not enter the kingdom. That is not a theology of salvation by works.
God saves those who trust in the sacrifice He provided to cover our sins – His son Messiah. Thus we are saved by grace through faith. However, those who do not obey God will not be saved until they do trust Him and therefore obey Him.
One must have the spirit of God to have life. The Holy Spirit of God is not given to those who don’t obey God (Acts 5:32; 1 John 3:24).
Those who do not trust God do not obey God and their actions clearly demonstrate this. That’s why James said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18b, NKJV).
The matter is very clear, Jesus Christ said,
“The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42“and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 13:41-42, NKJV).
There is no escape clause for those who won’t do what God says, no matter how clever their arguments might be.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23, NKJV).
R7-12
R
R7-12
Guest
thessalonian,
you said,
You’re also mistaken concerning the resurrection of Christ. He did not rise on the first day of the week. He rose between 3pm and dark on the seventh day of the week, and the Bible proves this beyond doubt.
When carefully studied, the sign of Christ, the events and timing surrounding his death and resurrection, and the two scriptures referring to Mary and the other women with the spices for Jesus burial, will bear this out.
However, for the sake of argument, even if he did rise on Sunday, this in no way gives you the authority to change the law of God – which by the way will not pass until all is fulfilled.
The servants of God kept the Sabbaths, New Moons, Feast and Holy Days of God from the beginning. The Sabbath was always observed on the seventh day of the week. They will be kept under Christ during the millennium. All the disciples/apostles of Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath as did Messiah.
After his death and resurrection, God’s people continued to keep this day as it is written in the Scriptures. This did not change until the Roman church decided it had the authority to change times and laws and declared that the "day of the Sun" (Sol Invictus) was now the new day of weekly rest and worship for Christians from 266 CE. God’s servants have been persecuted and even murdered for keeping His law and commandments ever since.
Consider doing a google search on Sol Invictus - the imperial sun cult, and see what you find.
The first day of the week has no biblical support for inclusion in God’s system of worship. The Sabbath was given by God, blessed and sanctified by God, and is one of the signs that identifies those who strive to serve God within His covenant agreement.
I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.
R7-12
you said,
You’re mistaken concerning the Sabbath. Nowhere in the Bible (Genesis to Revelation) is the first day of the week ever called a Sabbath or kept as one. Nowhere in the covenant is the first day of the week even mentioned as a day of worship.
You’re also mistaken concerning the resurrection of Christ. He did not rise on the first day of the week. He rose between 3pm and dark on the seventh day of the week, and the Bible proves this beyond doubt.
When carefully studied, the sign of Christ, the events and timing surrounding his death and resurrection, and the two scriptures referring to Mary and the other women with the spices for Jesus burial, will bear this out.
However, for the sake of argument, even if he did rise on Sunday, this in no way gives you the authority to change the law of God – which by the way will not pass until all is fulfilled.
The servants of God kept the Sabbaths, New Moons, Feast and Holy Days of God from the beginning. The Sabbath was always observed on the seventh day of the week. They will be kept under Christ during the millennium. All the disciples/apostles of Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath as did Messiah.
After his death and resurrection, God’s people continued to keep this day as it is written in the Scriptures. This did not change until the Roman church decided it had the authority to change times and laws and declared that the "day of the Sun" (Sol Invictus) was now the new day of weekly rest and worship for Christians from 266 CE. God’s servants have been persecuted and even murdered for keeping His law and commandments ever since.
Consider doing a google search on Sol Invictus - the imperial sun cult, and see what you find.
The first day of the week has no biblical support for inclusion in God’s system of worship. The Sabbath was given by God, blessed and sanctified by God, and is one of the signs that identifies those who strive to serve God within His covenant agreement.
I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.
R7-12
S
Solo
Guest
Re: The Law and the Sabbath
I don’t know how much more plain I can be so that you can understand.
Essentially you asked if a lawbreaker could inherit everlasting life. I responded with Scripture that clearly teaches that lawbreakers (the disobedient) will not enter the kingdom. That is not a theology of salvation by works.
God saves those who trust in the sacrifice He provided to cover our sins – His son Messiah. Thus we are saved by grace through faith. However, those who do not obey God will not be saved until they do trust Him and therefore obey Him.
One must have the spirit of God to have life. The Holy Spirit of God is not given to those who don’t obey God (Acts 5:32; 1 John 3:24).
Those who do not trust God do not obey God and their actions clearly demonstrate this. That’s why James said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18b, NKJV).
The matter is very clear, Jesus Christ said,
“The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42“and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 13:41-42, NKJV).
There is no escape clause for those who won’t do what God says, no matter how clever their arguments might be.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23, NKJV).
R7-12[/quote:12455]
Based on your reply, it is evident that your salvation is dependent upon your ability to keep the law. If you fail to keep the law, then you fail at your salvation. This is not Biblical in any way, shape, or form.
When you understand that those that are born again, born of the Spirit, will see and enter the kingdom of God, and when your understanding includes the fact that those that are born again rest in the righteousness of Jesus Christ and not in their own righteousness, you will be set free from man's laws and commandments.
Read Romans in chapter 7 and 8 where Paul explains that their is not one good thing that dwells in the flesh, and that the flesh is sold under sin. All of us are lawbreakers, and those that are born again continue to reside in a sinful lawbreaking flesh. Those that are born of God abide in Jesus' righteousness, and will be saved because they are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
The flesh is sinful and until it is changed at Jesus return, all believers battle the sin of the flesh. The flesh lives in its own sinful works and believers have been given a NEW creature resident within this sinful flesh that does not sin. The sinful flesh sins, but the NEW creature that rests in Jesus Christ does not sin. Read 1 John 3.
When Jesus returns the old man, the sinful flesh will be changed from corrupt, sinful, mortal flesh to a NEW incorrupt, sin-free, immortal body just as Jesus Christ was resurrected in.
Those that are born again do not rest in the sabbath of their own righteousness, but they rest in the perfect righteousness of their savior, Jesus Christ. Where sinful man is unable to keep the law of God, born of God believers can rest in the one who kept the entire law of God. One day each believer will be made sinless and righteous of their own, but until then believers abide in the righteousness of their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Those that claim that they keep the Sabbath do not keep the Sabbath free from sinning in their sinful flesh until they cease from their own works. Staying home from work does not contitute ceasing from their own works, as Jesus showed that that which man considered breaking the Sabbath was in fact keeping the Sabbath as He was doing the work of God the Father. That work is to be done at home, at work, at Church, at all places.
You responded,R7-12 said:
I quoted Scripture and based on that you claim the Bible teaches salvation by works. The truth is the Bible doesn’t teach that and I never said it did.
I don’t know how much more plain I can be so that you can understand.
Essentially you asked if a lawbreaker could inherit everlasting life. I responded with Scripture that clearly teaches that lawbreakers (the disobedient) will not enter the kingdom. That is not a theology of salvation by works.
God saves those who trust in the sacrifice He provided to cover our sins – His son Messiah. Thus we are saved by grace through faith. However, those who do not obey God will not be saved until they do trust Him and therefore obey Him.
One must have the spirit of God to have life. The Holy Spirit of God is not given to those who don’t obey God (Acts 5:32; 1 John 3:24).
Those who do not trust God do not obey God and their actions clearly demonstrate this. That’s why James said, "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" (James 2:18b, NKJV).
The matter is very clear, Jesus Christ said,
“The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42“and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matt. 13:41-42, NKJV).
There is no escape clause for those who won’t do what God says, no matter how clever their arguments might be.
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Matt. 7:21-23, NKJV).
R7-12[/quote:12455]
Based on your reply, it is evident that your salvation is dependent upon your ability to keep the law. If you fail to keep the law, then you fail at your salvation. This is not Biblical in any way, shape, or form.
When you understand that those that are born again, born of the Spirit, will see and enter the kingdom of God, and when your understanding includes the fact that those that are born again rest in the righteousness of Jesus Christ and not in their own righteousness, you will be set free from man's laws and commandments.
Read Romans in chapter 7 and 8 where Paul explains that their is not one good thing that dwells in the flesh, and that the flesh is sold under sin. All of us are lawbreakers, and those that are born again continue to reside in a sinful lawbreaking flesh. Those that are born of God abide in Jesus' righteousness, and will be saved because they are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
The flesh is sinful and until it is changed at Jesus return, all believers battle the sin of the flesh. The flesh lives in its own sinful works and believers have been given a NEW creature resident within this sinful flesh that does not sin. The sinful flesh sins, but the NEW creature that rests in Jesus Christ does not sin. Read 1 John 3.
When Jesus returns the old man, the sinful flesh will be changed from corrupt, sinful, mortal flesh to a NEW incorrupt, sin-free, immortal body just as Jesus Christ was resurrected in.
Those that are born again do not rest in the sabbath of their own righteousness, but they rest in the perfect righteousness of their savior, Jesus Christ. Where sinful man is unable to keep the law of God, born of God believers can rest in the one who kept the entire law of God. One day each believer will be made sinless and righteous of their own, but until then believers abide in the righteousness of their Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Those that claim that they keep the Sabbath do not keep the Sabbath free from sinning in their sinful flesh until they cease from their own works. Staying home from work does not contitute ceasing from their own works, as Jesus showed that that which man considered breaking the Sabbath was in fact keeping the Sabbath as He was doing the work of God the Father. That work is to be done at home, at work, at Church, at all places.
R
R7-12
Guest
The same strawman argument has been raised and then argued upon and the points I raised have been ignored and thereby dismissed.
My position is clearly not understood and therefore entirely misrepresented.
I have made it clear that obedience cannot take away sin; therefore faith in the sacrifice that Almighty God has provided in His son the Christ is necessary.
However, at the same time, the Bible is abundantly clear that the lawless and disobedient will NOT enter the kingdom of God. Period. 1 Cor. 6:8-11.
One must identify and comprehend the distinction between attempting to earn salvation through obedience (which I have never believed or even discussed, nor does the Bible even mention it), and doing what God has commanded by living faithfully to His commands.
Serving God is not an attempt to earn salvation, but rather, it is what we have been called to do as His children.
It is a principle that is not difficult to understand. If you have children, do you not want them to do what you instruct them to, knowing what is best for them? Our heavenly Father certainly knows much better than we carnal minded humans, hence the command,
Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established (Prov. 16:3, NKJV).
In other words, do what God commands and He will sort out our minds and give us understanding concerning His instructions for living. By this God gives us the means by which He will reveal His truths to us and bring us to understanding, faith and salvation.
These are not the teachings or commands of men but of God.
My salvation is not dependant upon my ability to keep the law, it is dependant upon faith in God and therefore I will demonstrate the trust I have for Him in how I live according to His commands. Obedience to God reveals one’s faith in Him. Those who do not trust or have faith in God do not do what He has commanded.
It is by the renewing of our minds through the Spirit of God that we are transformed. This transformation is the result of our listening to His Spirit guide us in all truth. This includes how we are to think, speak, act, worship, love, all reflected in the principles of the divine law of God. That is the process of God putting the law in our minds and writing the law in our hearts (Jer. 31:31).
There is only one law and one Lawgiver and Judge who is able to save and destroy (James 4:12).
You rightly said that we are all lawbreakers. Sin is lawbreaking (1 John 3:4). The Bible says, “sin no more†thus to cease from sin is to obey the law. It’s not rocket science – if you are willing to obey God. If you are not willing, you simply will not understand – as He has said.
When we err, we repent and are forgiven and trust that we will be raised to life as Christ was. This is how we will be judged righteous – not by our own doing but by the grace of God through Christ. The rebellious however, will not be judged righteous. Why? Because they may claim to be Christian and to do wonderful works of God but if they do not do what God has commanded, they sin, and if sin is not repented of and removed from one’s life, they remain in their sin and thus cannot be forgiven because they do not repent.
The unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom of God because of lawlessness (Mat. 7:21-24).
You keep saying that flesh cannot keep the law of God. I agree, that is why the spirit of God is given to those who seek to obey God (Acts 5:32). We are to consider our flesh as dead in Christ through his sacrifice according to the law, thus we live in the spirit and by the spirit and therefore we keep the law in the spirit and by the spirit.
But a question comes to mind concerning your statement about the law, if you believe flesh is entirely incapable of obeying God’s law, tell me, do you steal? Do you murder? Do you commit adultery? Do you lie? Do you dishonour your father and mother? Do you covet that which is not yours? Do you worship a god other than the one true God? Do you use His name in vain? Do you worship graven images? Have you forgotten to keep the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week holy?
The bible says those who do such things will not receive everlasting life (1 Cor. 6:8-11).
Jesus Christ himself taught that everlasting life depended upon (but not earned by) keeping the commandments of God (Mat. 19:17).
So tell me, if you don’t observe the commandments of God, how do you serve your God? I’m ust curious about the theology you claim to adhere to and what it entails.
R7-12
My position is clearly not understood and therefore entirely misrepresented.
I have made it clear that obedience cannot take away sin; therefore faith in the sacrifice that Almighty God has provided in His son the Christ is necessary.
However, at the same time, the Bible is abundantly clear that the lawless and disobedient will NOT enter the kingdom of God. Period. 1 Cor. 6:8-11.
One must identify and comprehend the distinction between attempting to earn salvation through obedience (which I have never believed or even discussed, nor does the Bible even mention it), and doing what God has commanded by living faithfully to His commands.
Serving God is not an attempt to earn salvation, but rather, it is what we have been called to do as His children.
It is a principle that is not difficult to understand. If you have children, do you not want them to do what you instruct them to, knowing what is best for them? Our heavenly Father certainly knows much better than we carnal minded humans, hence the command,
Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established (Prov. 16:3, NKJV).
In other words, do what God commands and He will sort out our minds and give us understanding concerning His instructions for living. By this God gives us the means by which He will reveal His truths to us and bring us to understanding, faith and salvation.
These are not the teachings or commands of men but of God.
My salvation is not dependant upon my ability to keep the law, it is dependant upon faith in God and therefore I will demonstrate the trust I have for Him in how I live according to His commands. Obedience to God reveals one’s faith in Him. Those who do not trust or have faith in God do not do what He has commanded.
It is by the renewing of our minds through the Spirit of God that we are transformed. This transformation is the result of our listening to His Spirit guide us in all truth. This includes how we are to think, speak, act, worship, love, all reflected in the principles of the divine law of God. That is the process of God putting the law in our minds and writing the law in our hearts (Jer. 31:31).
There is only one law and one Lawgiver and Judge who is able to save and destroy (James 4:12).
You rightly said that we are all lawbreakers. Sin is lawbreaking (1 John 3:4). The Bible says, “sin no more†thus to cease from sin is to obey the law. It’s not rocket science – if you are willing to obey God. If you are not willing, you simply will not understand – as He has said.
When we err, we repent and are forgiven and trust that we will be raised to life as Christ was. This is how we will be judged righteous – not by our own doing but by the grace of God through Christ. The rebellious however, will not be judged righteous. Why? Because they may claim to be Christian and to do wonderful works of God but if they do not do what God has commanded, they sin, and if sin is not repented of and removed from one’s life, they remain in their sin and thus cannot be forgiven because they do not repent.
The unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom of God because of lawlessness (Mat. 7:21-24).
You keep saying that flesh cannot keep the law of God. I agree, that is why the spirit of God is given to those who seek to obey God (Acts 5:32). We are to consider our flesh as dead in Christ through his sacrifice according to the law, thus we live in the spirit and by the spirit and therefore we keep the law in the spirit and by the spirit.
But a question comes to mind concerning your statement about the law, if you believe flesh is entirely incapable of obeying God’s law, tell me, do you steal? Do you murder? Do you commit adultery? Do you lie? Do you dishonour your father and mother? Do you covet that which is not yours? Do you worship a god other than the one true God? Do you use His name in vain? Do you worship graven images? Have you forgotten to keep the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week holy?
The bible says those who do such things will not receive everlasting life (1 Cor. 6:8-11).
Jesus Christ himself taught that everlasting life depended upon (but not earned by) keeping the commandments of God (Mat. 19:17).
So tell me, if you don’t observe the commandments of God, how do you serve your God? I’m ust curious about the theology you claim to adhere to and what it entails.
R7-12
K
Kevin
Guest
Wow i had no idea that this post would b so popular...cool.
Sorry i havent poted here in so long i''ve been having computer problems.I can come here only once or twice a week
I'm glad that there r more ppl that have said "yea for sure" on that poll than "now way" :D
Sorry i havent poted here in so long i''ve been having computer problems.I can come here only once or twice a week
I'm glad that there r more ppl that have said "yea for sure" on that poll than "now way" :D
S
Solo
Guest
Hey mutzrein,mutzrein said:
Good to be back.
Thanks for the welcome back.
God bless,
Michael