Keeping the sabbath holy

[Solo]

The same strawman argument has been raised and then argued upon and the points I raised have been ignored and thereby dismissed.

My position is clearly not understood and therefore entirely misrepresented.

I have made it clear that obedience cannot take away sin; therefore faith in the sacrifice that Almighty God has provided in His son the Christ is necessary.

However, at the same time, the Bible is abundantly clear that the lawless and disobedient will NOT enter the kingdom of God. Period. 1 Cor. 6:8-11.

One must identify and comprehend the distinction between attempting to earn salvation through obedience (which I have never believed or even discussed, nor does the Bible even mention it), and doing what God has commanded by living faithfully to His commands.

Serving God is not an attempt to earn salvation, but rather, it is what we have been called to do as His children.

It is a principle that is not difficult to understand. If you have children, do you not want them to do what you instruct them to, knowing what is best for them? Our heavenly Father certainly knows much better than we carnal minded humans, hence the command,

Commit your works to the LORD, And your thoughts will be established (Prov. 16:3, NKJV).

In other words, do what God commands and He will sort out our minds and give us understanding concerning His instructions for living. By this God gives us the means by which He will reveal His truths to us and bring us to understanding, faith and salvation.

These are not the teachings or commands of men but of God.

My salvation is not dependant upon my ability to keep the law, it is dependant upon faith in God and therefore I will demonstrate the trust I have for Him in how I live according to His commands. Obedience to God reveals one’s faith in Him. Those who do not trust or have faith in God do not do what He has commanded.

It is by the renewing of our minds through the Spirit of God that we are transformed. This transformation is the result of our listening to His Spirit guide us in all truth. This includes how we are to think, speak, act, worship, love, all reflected in the principles of the divine law of God. That is the process of God putting the law in our minds and writing the law in our hearts (Jer. 31:31).

There is only one law and one Lawgiver and Judge who is able to save and destroy (James 4:12).

You rightly said that we are all lawbreakers. Sin is lawbreaking (1 John 3:4). The Bible says, “sin no more†thus to cease from sin is to obey the law. It’s not rocket science – if you are willing to obey God. If you are not willing, you simply will not understand – as He has said.

When we err, we repent and are forgiven and trust that we will be raised to life as Christ was. This is how we will be judged righteous – not by our own doing but by the grace of God through Christ. The rebellious however, will not be judged righteous. Why? Because they may claim to be Christian and to do wonderful works of God but if they do not do what God has commanded, they sin, and if sin is not repented of and removed from one’s life, they remain in their sin and thus cannot be forgiven because they do not repent.

The unrepentant will not inherit the kingdom of God because of lawlessness (Mat. 7:21-24).

You keep saying that flesh cannot keep the law of God. I agree, that is why the spirit of God is given to those who seek to obey God (Acts 5:32). We are to consider our flesh as dead in Christ through his sacrifice according to the law, thus we live in the spirit and by the spirit and therefore we keep the law in the spirit and by the spirit.

But a question comes to mind concerning your statement about the law, if you believe flesh is entirely incapable of obeying God’s law, tell me, do you steal? Do you murder? Do you commit adultery? Do you lie? Do you dishonour your father and mother? Do you covet that which is not yours? Do you worship a god other than the one true God? Do you use His name in vain? Do you worship graven images? Have you forgotten to keep the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week holy?

The bible says those who do such things will not receive everlasting life (1 Cor. 6:8-11).

Jesus Christ himself taught that everlasting life depended upon (but not earned by) keeping the commandments of God (Mat. 19:17).

So tell me, if you don’t observe the commandments of God, how do you serve your God? I’m ust curious about the theology you claim to adhere to and what it entails.

R7-12

Let me know when you are able to keep all of the commandments of God while dwelling in the corrupt, mortal flesh. You and Jesus will be the only ones that I know that have.

The keeping the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of the flesh as it was in the days of the commandments given to the Israelites. It is now a far more reaching spiritual list of commandments that are much more involved and profound than the original ten commandments were. Now Jesus expects one not to look at a woman with lust in his eyes as that is adultery. Jesus expects us to not hate our brother as it is murder. Jesus doesn't expect us to cease from our work one day of each week, he expects us to cease from our works seven days a week; and instead be about the works God the Father. Jesus kept the Law and those that rest in him are saved from condemnation as they are sealed until the day of redemption by the Spirit of whom they are born. The flesh will be destroyed or changed, and that which is born of God will remain forever.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Whats up Solo? Hows the heat in Texas?

Its hot out here in Cali.

As far as "keeping the Sabbath" goes.....

What constitutes this statement anyways?

Personally, I just view it as a day to reflect on the nature of God and for family spiritual growth.

I think God meant for the Sabbath to be a BLESSING rather than a chore.

Who wants to work on Sabbath and worry about the world anyways? :

 

[R7-12]

Solo,

You wrote,

Let me know when you are able to keep all of the commandments of God while dwelling in the corrupt, mortal flesh. You and Jesus will be the only ones that I know that have.

That was already addressed. Perhaps you didn’t understand it.

I said,

When we err, we repent and are forgiven and trust that we will be raised to life as Christ was. This is how we will be judged righteous – not by our own doing but by the grace of God through Christ.

You said,

The keeping the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of the flesh as it was in the days of the commandments given to the Israelites.

Please provide the precise text that says people are no longer required to keep the fourth commandment concerning the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to EVERY Israelite which you are if you are in Christ (Gal. 3:29). Remember also that the new covenant was given to Israel and Judah, therefore, if you don’t consider yourself an Israelite through faith as the seed of Abraham according to the promise, then you are not in Christ (Jer. 31:31).]

You wrote,

It is now a far more reaching spiritual list of commandments that are much more involved and profound than the original ten commandments were.

So how does raising the bar or responsibility to the law also do away with having to keep it? That is a direct contradiction in terms.

You said,

Now Jesus expects one not to look at a woman with lust in his eyes as that is adultery.

Ok, so lusting in one’s mind is adultery and therefore against the law but actually having a physical affair with someone is no longer a sin? Please explain your reasoning here, it makes no sense to me.

Jesus expects us to not hate our brother as it is murder.

Again, it’s not ok to hate your brother but is ok to kill him?

Jesus doesn't expect us to cease from our work one day of each week, he expects us to cease from our works seven days a week; and instead be about the works God the Father.

If we are to cease from our work seven days a week, and only be about the works of God the Father, how and when do we support our families? Also, please provide the biblical proof that your assertion is what is expected from us. I would like to see the scripture that says we are not to do any work seven days a week but only the works of God.

Jesus kept the Law and those that rest in him are saved from condemnation as they are sealed until the day of redemption by the Spirit of whom they are born. The flesh will be destroyed or changed, and that which is born of God will remain forever.

Yes Christ kept the law and he certainly kept it both physically and spiritually. Now if Jesus was in the flesh as were all his disciples, why would they have to keep the Sabbath physically according to the law but we do not?

You Solo are still flesh and not yet fully born of God as that does not happen until corruption has put on incorruption and mortal has put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:50-57). You must be born of the spirit to BE spirit and that won’t occur until the resurrection (John 3:6). Therefore, how can you keep any law purely in the spiritual – especially if you don’t keep any of them physically?

It seems to me that you want to very cleverly admit to the validity of the spiritual intent of nine of the ten commandments of God, but not be held accountable for breaking them. The fourth commandment you want to remove altogether by spiritualizing it away to where you really don’t DO anything. It’s the one that requires you to actually DO something – both spiritually and physically.

I’m looking forward to reading your explanations for each of the questions connected to your points listed above.

R7-12

 

[reznwerks]

law

I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.

R7-12

You're kidding right? Depending on which version of the commandments you follow it clearly states to keep the lords day holy. The Jews followed this and Jesus was a practicing Jew of his day. He didn't need to say anything regarding it because it was just the natural thing to do. Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. He was referring to the Jewish law and custums.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c4.htm

http://www.carm.org/kjv/Matt/matt_5.htm#17

 

[R7-12]

Hi reznwerks,

I'm sorry if you are unaware of my position on the topic at hand but the thread will clearly bear this out if you care to read it.

My question was a response to what thessalonian had written previously.

He said,

Sunday is the sabbath of the new covenant because that is the day Christ rose. But, yes, it is to be kept. [emphasis added by R7-12]

Hence my question,

I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.

reznwerks, if you have any scriptures that support the first day of the week as the the seventh day Sabbath according to the law of God, feel free to provide them.

BTW, Christ never viewed the Jewish customs as binding, in fact he condemned many of them because they run contrary to the law of God and thus are the commandments or customs of men. The law of God is not Jewish law.

I hope this clarifies.

Peace,
R7-12

 

[Solo]

Solo,

You wrote,

Let me know when you are able to keep all of the commandments of God while dwelling in the corrupt, mortal flesh. You and Jesus will be the only ones that I know that have.

That was already addressed. Perhaps you didn’t understand it.

I said,
[quote:ca972]When we err, we repent and are forgiven and trust that we will be raised to life as Christ was. This is how we will be judged righteous – not by our own doing but by the grace of God through Christ.

You said,

The keeping the Sabbath is no longer a commandment of the flesh as it was in the days of the commandments given to the Israelites.

Please provide the precise text that says people are no longer required to keep the fourth commandment concerning the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to EVERY Israelite which you are if you are in Christ (Gal. 3:29). Remember also that the new covenant was given to Israel and Judah, therefore, if you don’t consider yourself an Israelite through faith as the seed of Abraham according to the promise, then you are not in Christ (Jer. 31:31).]

You wrote,

It is now a far more reaching spiritual list of commandments that are much more involved and profound than the original ten commandments were.

So how does raising the bar or responsibility to the law also do away with having to keep it? That is a direct contradiction in terms.

You said,

Now Jesus expects one not to look at a woman with lust in his eyes as that is adultery.

Ok, so lusting in one’s mind is adultery and therefore against the law but actually having a physical affair with someone is no longer a sin? Please explain your reasoning here, it makes no sense to me.

Jesus expects us to not hate our brother as it is murder.

Again, it’s not ok to hate your brother but is ok to kill him?

Jesus doesn't expect us to cease from our work one day of each week, he expects us to cease from our works seven days a week; and instead be about the works God the Father.

If we are to cease from our work seven days a week, and only be about the works of God the Father, how and when do we support our families? Also, please provide the biblical proof that your assertion is what is expected from us. I would like to see the scripture that says we are not to do any work seven days a week but only the works of God.

Jesus kept the Law and those that rest in him are saved from condemnation as they are sealed until the day of redemption by the Spirit of whom they are born. The flesh will be destroyed or changed, and that which is born of God will remain forever.

Yes Christ kept the law and he certainly kept it both physically and spiritually. Now if Jesus was in the flesh as were all his disciples, why would they have to keep the Sabbath physically according to the law but we do not?

You Solo are still flesh and not yet fully born of God as that does not happen until corruption has put on incorruption and mortal has put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:50-57). You must be born of the spirit to BE spirit and that won’t occur until the resurrection (John 3:6). Therefore, how can you keep any law purely in the spiritual – especially if you don’t keep any of them physically?

It seems to me that you want to very cleverly admit to the validity of the spiritual intent of nine of the ten commandments of God, but not be held accountable for breaking them. The fourth commandment you want to remove altogether by spiritualizing it away to where you really don’t DO anything. It’s the one that requires you to actually DO something – both spiritually and physically.

I’m looking forward to reading your explanations for each of the questions connected to your points listed above.

R7-12[/quote:ca972]
Since Jesus has kept the ten commandments that were given to the Israelites, and it is his righteousness that I abide in, I am not judged or condemned by keeping the law and ordinances that were given to the Israelites, but I am judged and responsible for walking in the Spirit so that I do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The New Creature that was born within me from the Spirit of God does not sin; only the corrupt, sinful flesh sins. My eternal security is not wrapped up in my ability to keep the law, but in the fact that Jesus kept the law and died for me. I rest in his work on the cross and keep all days holy unto the Lord as the Spirit of God directs, not as man's laws and ordinances direct. Explain what manner of activity you perceive as keeping the Sabbath holy? I submit that keeping every day holy depends on whose works a believer performs; God's works or man's works.

 

[R7-12]

Solo,

It's not surprising that you chose not to answer any of the questions I asked. This is generally what occurs in this type of discussion. That fact has lead this conversation to become pointless. It has no possibility of becoming productive when the exchanges are not based on reasoning through the points that are raised or directly addressing the scriptures that are cited in support of a position.

I don't wish to change your mind on something you do not want.

Perhaps we will have more productive conversations in the future.

I am willing to continue discussing the Sabbath and the law of God with anyone who is genuinely interested in the subject.

Peace,
R7-12

 

[Solo]

Solo,

It's not surprising that you chose not to answer any of the questions I asked. This is generally what occurs in this type of discussion. That fact has lead this conversation to become pointless. It has no possibility of becoming productive when the exchanges are not based on reasoning through the points that are raised or directly addressing the scriptures that are cited in support of a position.

I don't wish to change your mind on something you do not want.

Perhaps we will have more productive conversations in the future.

I am willing to continue discussing the Sabbath and the law of God with anyone who is genuinely interested in the subject.

Peace,
R7-12

To ignore the teachings of Jesus and walking in the darkness of cultic teachings is the normal sign of one being ignorant of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Hopefully you will grow into the mind of Christ and understand that the Law is much deeper than the Sabbatarians even know. Perhaps a more humble attitude towards the teachings of Jesus and his apostles will bring those wrapped up in the legalistic maze that Paul spoke against to the Galatians, and into the loving arms of the savior who did all that was necessary to attain eternal life. Keeping the Law has never afforded eternal life to anyone, and never will.

 

[Drew]

Hi R7-12 (and others)

I think I understand your arguments and find them compelling (and therefore somewhat disturbing) Just for the sake of making sure I understand, please comment on any of the following:

1. Our salvation (that is the re-establishment of a relationship with God) is essentially a gift and is achieved through accepting the substitutionary death of Christ. No "work" is involved in accepting the gift.

2. While item (1) is indeed true, Scripture essentially teaches that obedience to certain laws (including commandment number 4) is still required or we effectively "hand the gift back"- our disobedient actions illustrate that we do not really accept the gift.

3. Many Christians make the error of not drawing the distinction between, on the one hand, a restored relationship achieved by Christ's death and not by obedience and, on the other hand, a willingness to maintain and preserve this relationship through acts of obedience.

4. These same Christians incorrectly argue that once the relationship has been restored (by faith in Christ's substitutionary death), that this sacrifice covers wilfull future acts of disobedience. In other words, these Christians fail to realize that once the relationship has been restored (through faith and not works) we need to act to preserve it and can lose the relationship if we do not obey.

I suspect you (R7-12) will agree with all these statements.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Since Jesus has kept the ten commandments that were given to the Israelites, and it is his righteousness that I abide in, I am not judged or condemned by keeping the law and ordinances that were given to the Israelites, but I am judged and responsible for walking in the Spirit so that I do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The New Creature that was born within me from the Spirit of God does not sin; only the corrupt, sinful flesh sins. My eternal security is not wrapped up in my ability to keep the law, but in the fact that Jesus kept the law and died for me. I rest in his work on the cross and keep all days holy unto the Lord as the Spirit of God directs, not as man's laws and ordinances direct. Explain what manner of activity you perceive as keeping the Sabbath holy? I submit that keeping every day holy depends on whose works a believer performs; God's works or man's works.

The ultimate paradox.

So why judge other believers about sinful lifestyles? (IE abortion and homosexuality) They cannot help it because they are of the flesh right?

Since we cannot possibly keep the Law then what use is it to rebuke those in error?

"Be good but just remember that you cannot be good."

This is the basic message of mainstream Christianity today.

We cannot keep the Law but we will judge others about there faults anyways?!?

 

[R7-12]

Hi Drew,

Thanks for your response.

I would like to reply to each of the points for further clarification.

You asked for comments on the following observations,

1. Our salvation (that is the re-establishment of a relationship with God) is essentially a gift and is achieved through accepting the substitutionary death of Christ. No "work" is involved in accepting the gift.

Indeed, salvation is a gift. However, it is achieved by God’s grace based on our faith (trust) in the sacrifice He gave by sending His son Jesus Christ to die in order to pay the debt we incur to the law for breaking it (sin, 1 John 3:4).

Salvation is not achieved by accepting in one’s mind the substitutionary death of Christ. Mainstream Christianity markets a formula to the masses that has been accepted by most and thought of as entirely biblicial when the truth is it is not. The standard formula is essentially, “Accept Jesus into you heart by repeating the sinners prayer and you will be saved.â€Â

Christ's death makes forgiveness and justification possible but simply accepting it as a truth does nothing.

The truth is we must accept the covenant agreement and live by it (Mat. 4:4). Messiah shed his own blood for this covenant for many for the remission of sin (Mat. 26:28). We do indeed accept Christ's sacrifice but this involves more than just an intellectual or emotional response to accepting his sacrifice in our place as a truth. Most of God’s chosen will experience persecution, beatings, reviling, imprisonment, rejection, having to choose between family and God, and even laying down one’s own life for the faith. Does not the word of God state that we shall all be refined as with fire? Why would this be? We are called out of this world and its systems. We are to separate ourselves (be holy) for God’s purpose. This can only be done by doing what the covenant we agreed to demands.

Doing what God has called us to do does not earn us or anyone salvation. What it does is develop us into the kinds of people He can work with to become the priests and kings of the millennium who will rule this earth under Christ and properly teach those who survive into it. Not just any ole’ feel good Christian type will be chosen for this in the first resurrection. Not even those who appear to be “great Christians†who do many “good works†and even seem to cast out demons will make it,

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ (Mat. 7:21-23, NKJV).

If one reads the hundreds of NT examples of admonishment concerning how we are to strive to be, how we are to be “diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth†(2 Tim. 2:15). How we are to become “living sacrifices acceptable to God†(Rom. 12:1), to run the race, to fight the good fight, to be soldiers of God, faithful SERVANTS, the list goes on and on. There is much expected of those who are given much. There is a purpose which our heavenly Father has for our development in the spirit that few ever consider deeply or are even aware of for that matter.

Obedience to God is paramount in our development and it’s not something we can ever take credit of. We are merely called to be willing to go through this process and live according to every word of God by faith. That means we do everything God asks of us because we trust Him to raise us from the dead because of Christ’s perfect sacrifice. It is not salvation by works, it is the gospel of God.

2. While item (1) is indeed true, Scripture essentially teaches that obedience to certain laws (including commandment number 4) is still required or we effectively "hand the gift back"- our disobedient actions illustrate that we do not really accept the gift.

Let me put it this way, the principles we live by determines the god we serve. The disobedient will not inherit everlasting life because they aren’t willing to sacrifice themselves in service to their Creator through faith in Him and His son’s purpose.

3. Many Christians make the error of not drawing the distinction between, on the one hand, a restored relationship achieved by Christ's death and not by obedience and, on the other hand, a willingness to maintain and preserve this relationship through acts of obedience.

One cannot have a restored relationship unless a willingness to obey exists. Marriage, for example, must have rules that both must follow in order for a proper, mutually beneficial relationship to exist and have growth. Our willingness should follow our having been brought to repentance by God in the first place. Faith or trust can never exist without a willingness to serve. Why would you do something for someone that involves risk if you don’t trust them? Obeying God requires a willingness to do what He says because you have faith in Him. The Bible is filled with examples, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Daniel, Ezekiel, David, John the Baptist, Paul, Stephen, John, Jesus Christ.

God called them all to walk blameless before Him and listen to His voice and be holy. That cannot occur without a willingness to trust – which requires action, in other words, to do what God commands.

Indeed, the relationship (and the covenant) are maintained or preserved through continued obedience, as you stated.

When we err, when we sin, we repent for it and are thus cleansed and restored.

4. These same Christians incorrectly argue that once the relationship has been restored (by faith in Christ's substitutionary death), that this sacrifice covers wilfull future acts of disobedience. In other words, these Christians fail to realize that once the relationship has been restored (through faith and not works) we need to act to preserve it and can lose the relationship if we do not obey.

Faith in Christ’s sacrifice requires obedience. Christ taught us to follow God. He instructed his disciples to live according to the word of God. If you have faith in something, your actions reflect the level of faith you have.

In the first covenant, when one sinned they were required to repent and offer a blood sacrifice to cover their sin. This had to be repeated every time they sinned. In the second covenant, when one sins they are required to repent and ask that Christ’s sacrifice cover their sin. This is not asking Christ to be re-sacrificed – his sacrifice was only required once for all. Christ's death is enough to cover all sin but sin is only covered when repented of. In other words, we must ask that Christ's blood cover our sin each time we repent for having erred.

Anyone who lacks them is blind and shortsighted, forgetful of the cleansing of his past sins (2 Pet. 1:9, NAB).

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God (Rom. 3:25, KJV).

The truth is the reality of it all is very simple. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23). Thus we are to strive to not commit sin. Striving to live as God commands shows our trust (faith) in God to forgive us (through Christ’s blood) when we do make a mistake. This is the basis our the covenant and our relationship with God.

God just wants us to trust Him. In return, He grants everlasting life as a gift (Rom. 6:23). That is the promise of God to us in His covenant.

Unfortunately the Adversary has had a lot of time to corrupt the simplicity that is in Christ through false teaching (that appears true) which has been fed to the masses for nearly 2000 years.

But it must be remembered that God is only calling a few over 6000 years who will come up in the first resurrection to serve with Christ as priests and kings for a thousand years. All the rest of the dead will come up in the second resurrection and when the books (Bible) will be opened and understanding made available to all. This period is a time of decision and ultimately judgment and eventual inclusion in the kingdom for all who repent and believe and obey.

I hope this helps.

Thank you again Drew for your post.

R7-12

 

[John the Baptist]

I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.

R7-12

***

John here.
Rome speaks above and beyond the Covenant of God, they claim.

 

[R7-12]

See below

 

[R7-12]

I noticed you declared that observance of the weekly rest is required, so I must ask, by what law? Please provide scriptural references in support of this assertion. Thanks.

But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ (Mat. 4:4).

There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy (James 4:12).

“One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.†(Ex. 12:49).

“This is what the LORD has said: ‘Tomorrow (the seventh day) is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD (Ex. 16:23b, NKJV).

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it (Ex. 20:8-11).

And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 ‘You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 ‘Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 ‘Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17 ‘It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ †18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God (Ex. 31:12-18).

And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. 3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings (Lev. 23:1-3).

‘One law and one custom shall be for you and for the stranger who dwells with you.’ (Num. 15:16).

‘You shall have one law for him who sins unintentionally, for him who is native-born among the children of Israel and for the stranger who dwells among them (Num. 15:29).

You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant (Neh. 9:14).

For thus says the LORD: “To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off. 6 “Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servantsâ€â€Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.†(Isaiah 56:4-7).

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken.†(Isaiah 58:13-14).

‘I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; 20 ‘hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’ (Eze. 20:19-20).

But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments (Mat. 19:17b).

And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. 28 “Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.†(Mark 2:27-28).

Then Jesus said to them, “I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?†(Luke 6:9).

So He (Jesus Christ) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written: 18 “The Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; 19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD.†(Luke 4:16-19).

He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked (1 John 2:6).

So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God (Acts 13:42-44).

And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there (Acts 16:13).

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks (Acts 18:4).

Therefore, a sabbath rest still remains for the people of God. 10 And whoever enters into God’s rest, rests from his own works as God did from his. 11 Therefore, let us strive to enter into that rest, so that no one may fall after the same example of disobedience. 12 Indeed, the word of God is living and effective, sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating even between soul and spirit, joints and marrow, and able to discern reflections and thoughts of the heart (Heb. 4:9-12, NAB).

“For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me,†says the LORD, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,†says the LORD (Isaiah 66:22-23, NKJV).

Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you (Deut. 31:26).

Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple (Rev. 11:19a).

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus (Rev. 14:12).

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them (Isaiah 8:20).

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[John the Baptist]

See below

***
John here:
I am still rereading the above! :wink: Anyway, I see this mostly as your post it, except for one thing that caught my eye which I do not agree with as truth. Perhaps I am not understanding what you have posted? I have highlighted the only part of this that is contrary to the Word of God as I see it. Please give clarification?

You see, I am an old turkey, so to speak. When I see mostly all truth even, and then something pops up like this, it sends up a red flag. See Luke 12:47-48 for what I mean.
I believe mostly what you have posted up is saying that the end time will require the remnant (Revelation 12:17) to have all truth & to be mature, I think that is what your post states?? + Unity! John 17:20-23

You say:
"Doing what God has called us to do does not earn us or anyone salvation. What it does is develop us into the kinds of people He can work with to become the priests and kings of the millennium who will rule this earth under Christ and properly teach those who survive into it. Not just any ole’ feel good Christian type will be chosen for this in the first resurrection. Not even those who appear to be “great Christians†who do many “good works†and even seem to cast out demons will make it,

 

[R7-12]

“And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations 27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ as I also have received from My Father; 28“and I will give him the morning star (Rev. 2:26-28).

Isaiah 65:19-25

"And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.†(Rev. 5:10).

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6).

“And they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the unholy, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 24“In controversy they shall stand as judges, and judge it according to My judgments. They shall keep My laws and My statutes in all My appointed meetings, and they shall hallow My Sabbaths (Eze. 44:23-24).

For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem; You shall weep no more. He will be very gracious to you at the sound of your cry; When He hears it, He will answer you. 20 And though the Lord gives you The bread of adversity and the water of affliction, Yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore, But your eyes shall see your teachers. 21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,†Whenever you turn to the right hand Or whenever you turn to the left (Isaiah 30:19-21).

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel (Mat. 19:28).

And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the LORD my God will come, And all the saints with You (Zech. 14:4-5).

God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne. 9 The princes of the people have gathered together, The people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God; He is greatly exalted (Ps. 47:8-9).

Micah 4:1-4.

“Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’ 11 Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel! (Hos. 1:10-11).

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles (Zech. 14:16-19).

Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth (Mat. 5:5).

9 For evildoers shall be cut off; But those who wait on the LORD, They shall inherit the earth…
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace (Ps. 37:9 & 11).

For the upright will dwell in the land, And the blameless will remain in it; 22 But the wicked will be cut off from the earth, And the unfaithful will be uprooted from it (Prov. 2:21-22).

But he who puts his trust in Me shall possess the land, And shall inherit My holy mountain.†(Isaiah 57:13c).

And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.†(Rev. 5:9-10).

Who will God’s people reign over and serve as God’s Priests? Those who survive Jacob’s trouble at the end of the last day and live into the millennial reign of Christ. These will be taught by all the resurrected servants of God and will be taught to worship Almighty God from Sabbath to Sabbath and from New Moon to New Moon and come to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles (Isa. 65:21-24; Zech. 14:16-19). The saints are those who are called to the first resurrection and at this very moment are being prepared by Christ as soldiers of God for the last days and as priests and kings for the millennium.

R7-12

 

[John the Baptist]

[quote="R7-12":32c5c]See below

***
John here:
I am still rereading the above! :wink: Anyway, I see this mostly as your post it, except for one thing that caught my eye which I do not agree with as truth. Perhaps I am not understanding what you have posted? I have highlighted the only part of this that is contrary to the Word of God as I see it. Please give clarification?

You see, I am an old turkey, so to speak. When I see mostly all truth even, and then something pops up like this, it sends up a red flag. See Luke 12:47-48 for what I mean.
I believe mostly what you have posted up is saying that the end time will require the remnant (Revelation 12:17) to have all truth & to be mature, I think that is what your post states?? + Unity! John 17:20-23

You say:
"Doing what God has called us to do does not earn us or anyone salvation. What it does is develop us into the kinds of people He can work with to become the priests and kings of the millennium who will rule this earth under Christ and properly teach those who survive into it. Not just any ole’ feel good Christian type will be chosen for this in the first resurrection. Not even those who appear to be “great Christians†who do many “good works†and even seem to cast out demons will make it,[/quote:32c5c]

********
John here:
Was that post suppose to teach life alive on earth from the time in between the first to the second resurection? (1000 yrs?)

Was that an acknowledgement to my requested remark??? See 1 Peter 3:15

 

[R7-12]

John here:
Was that post suppose to teach life alive on earth from the time in between the first to the second resurection? (1000 yrs?)

Was that an acknowledgement to my requested remark??? See 1 Peter 3:15

When referring to the saints of God in the first resurrection, would it have been easier if instead of saying in my earlier post, “who will rule this earth under Christ and properly teach those who survive into it†I had said, “the servants of God will rule as kings over this earth and serve the people as priests of the Living God under Christ according to the order of Melchizedek?â€Â

That is what is written.

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[John the Baptist]

---------The 1000 years will start & END for some!----------

It will start when Christ comes for the living righteous & the resurrected dead [Christians] who will all meet Him in the air, And Christ's God Glory + the angels Glory, will kill the rest of the worlds wicked, so that [all] wicked are now D-E-A-D. satan and the evil angels will now again be here on depopulated earth as it was before God created it! The now again 'desolate & void bottom/less pit earth', finds his angel followers and himself in a literal 'bound' chain set of circumstances! They are alone with the wicked all being dead. These who will have their resurrection at the ending of the 1000 years.

This 2nd resurrection is at the 1000 years ending! satan will have 1000 years to think over what his evil rebellion has caused! Yet, at the end of the 1000 years, and at this time, the wicked will all be resurrected, ALL OF ETERNITY will see that ALL have come to the point of full eternal uselessness (rebellion) for they come out of the grave the same rebellious way that they went into it! & God will at this time put them out of their misery! This is the penalty stage of their execution, they will suffer according to their deeds! See Eccl. 12:13-14.

These are to ALL be executed in this Second death slaughter, when the New Jerusalem descends at the end of these 1000 years. Their Judgement as to the 'length of suffering' will have been determined during the 1000 years of judgement by the heavenly accurate record books. See Luke 12:47-48. They will ALL be executed at this time. ALONG with Lucifer and his crew of angels, & all of his human evil Desiree's. (compare Gen. 4:7) The earth and the heavens will be cleansed by fire at this time, and then recreated before New Jerusalem sets down. See Eze. 28:18-19 & Obad. 16.
At the present time there are Non/Christians who are alive, OK?
And at the present time we have Christians who are alive also. Again, both are living on earth at this present time.

In the graves we have two class of dead people.
First, and at this present time we will agree to the thought that there are dead Christians in the grave.
And also at this present time there are dead non/Christians who are in the grave.

Lets look at the Masters Word in Jn. 5:28-29. Pay apt attention! (reread & study this verse)
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which [all that are in the graves] shall hear His voice. And they shall come forth; (notice No. 1) they that have done good unto the resurrection of life; (notice No. 2) [and] they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." Also take note, that it does not say that they will all come out of their graves at the same time! Only that, they all will be resurrected, to come forth.

Two different time frames for these two different class of people. But remember that [these both] are now at the present time dead, & in the graves.
Now before we touch upon the same two class of the living at the present time, we are going back to Rev. 20 .We find that the 'd'evil is to be bound for 1000 years by a literal set of circumstances. It was exactly like the first history before man was created. But lets again prove that God is consistent!

Most know that 'man' added chapter titles, periods, numbers & chapters divisions to Gods Word. But it is the period & comma, that gives us some trouble in a few verses of Scripture. (they are in the wrong place) Lets test this in Rev. 20 verse 5? Immediately after the binding of satan in verse four, notice verse 5! "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (OK, 'i' placed a period here as they have done, But we will also place the number 6 here, to start the next verse. And this [new] thought. We will see if this makes more sense?) Verse 6...Blessed AND HOLY [is he that hath part in the first resurrection: (notice) on such the second death hath no power.."

Again the first resurrection brings forth the Blessed and Holy. And the others who are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years will die the second death. (see Rev. 20:14) And as we read in John 5:28-29 the Master promised both the saved & the lost would be resurrected. But not at the same time. But again, remember that this class of people were the ones who had died, both were to be raised from the dead. In other words we are not considering the 'living' yet.

Lets find out what happens to the living on earth when Christ comes again the second time. Remember that there are the Righteous & the wicked alive when He comes.

We will read about the righteous saved ones [first].
"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not [all] sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(notice 'all' will not sleep on...then it says, but [we] all shall be..) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last [trump:] for the trumpet shall sound, (secret? Hardly!)
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
And we read in Rev. 20:6.. "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection." And in verse 5 again?? "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

So lets will try another verse on these who come forth in the first resurrection and we will touch on the living righteous only. (not the living wicked)
Notice the wording, Christ does not want us to be mis/led! or 'ignorant' concerning this 'Word' of His.
"But I would not have you to be ignorant; brethren, concerning them which are asleep, (notice that he knows of these others!) even as others which [have no hope.]...For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord, (now we see the living righteous come to view) that we which [are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord] shall not prevent them which are asleep. (secret? silent? hardly) For the Lord [himself] shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, [and] with the trump of God: (do you remember when Moses went upon Mt. Sinai? How God spoke, & the whole mountain shook! but notice the next Words) AND THE DEAD IN [CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST. (did you catch the Words, Word? First, or the first resurrection!) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.." 1 Thess. 5:13-16

Please note again: We have not touched a verse strictly about what happened to the living wicked! The wicked who died are still dead & will not come forth until after the 1000 years. So, Christ called forth 'first' those of the saved in the first resurrection.

Who is left here for us to consider? When the Master came there were two class of people here on earth. Both the Righteous & the wicked living, what happened to the living wicked?? Lets go to Revelation 6:14-17 to check?

We find that when Christ comes to earth the second time, that the earth will
be de/populated, except for satan & his evil angels.
But we did not use these verses. And it can leave NO DOUBT as to the time being that of the Masters SECOND COMING! Rev. 6:14-17 says:

"And the heaven departed as a scowl when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (remember who only are here! the wicked dead are still in their grave & all the righteous are to be brought forth together at this same time, at Christ's second coming. Now notice!)
And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondsman, and every free man,
[hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME;] AND WHO SHALL BE ABLE TO STAND?"


You will want these last verses to seal this truth in your mind, as for the time frame.
It is clearly seen as that of our Lords Second coming, and the total temporary 1000 year death of all the wicked! The verses are found in 2 Thess. 2:1-9. (you read it all, i will use just its context)

The righteous are being raptured away' (if i can use this term?)
And the wicked dead will not come forth until the end of the 1000 years. And these living wicked are WANTING TO DIE. And they will do so. Now, the earth is as it was before creation. Dark & Void, the home for the evil angels & their master, satan. Chained by a literal set of circumstances until the 1000 years are finished. Then, they will all take part in the second resurrection to be eternally slain! This is called the SECOND DEATH! try Revelation 20:14.

You will want these verses in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9 to see that it is at the Masters second coming that the rest of the wicked are slain & that all the wicked are now dead, and remain so until the end of the 1000 years. Then they will be resurrected for a very short time.

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [our gathering together unto Him]...And then shall the [wicked be revealed, (pay apt attention) whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth, and SHALL DESTROY WITH THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING."

---John

 

[R7-12]

I will not begin to demonstrate the significant errors in the explanation of end time events given because they are so numerous. However, I will address one point that clearly shows the position given above is quite erroneous.

And Christ's God Glory + the angels Glory, will kill the rest of the worlds wicked, so that [all] wicked are now D-E-A-D. satan and the evil angels will now again be here on depopulated earth as it was before God created it!

The wicked who died are still dead & will not come forth until after the 1000 years.

More than once was it asserted, with great emphasis, that following Christ’s return and the death of many people that allegedly all the wicked will be killed at this time. Thus it is asserted that none shall survive into the period called the millennium. It was also asserted that only Satan and the fallen host will be on an earth during the millennium.

Now, the earth is as it was before creation. Dark & Void, the home for the evil angels & their master, satan. Chained by a literal set of circumstances until the 1000 years are finished.

The texts given in my earlier post absolutely refute this false assertion showing it is false.

What I leave for careful consideration is the following biblical scenario and question. The scriptures clearly state that the elect of God will be resurrected at Christ’s second coming and will then REIGN with him as KINGS and serve as PRIESTS on this earth for the 1000 years called the millennium. Therefore, if Revelation 5:10 is true,
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.â€Â

And if Revelation 20:6 is true,
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Then I ask, if all the wicked are dead and none remained alive and all the elect of God are no longer on the earth, then who are these people that have been made kings and priests on the earth? And who are they ruling over? And who are they serving as Priests?

Again most of the assertions in the above post are in error, not supported by Scripture and too numerous to deal with considering the time and effort required. If someone wishes to understand specific events and related texts more accurately concerning this topic, please feel free to ask.

R7-12