KetherMalkuth, I am curious

[Classik]

Rejected God or rejected christianity?

Are you trying to say God and Christianity are mutually exclussive? Just curious. I need clarification.

I've been a christian my whole life but have recently abandoned my religion and turned my faith to a personal relationship with God, and feel much closer to him now than ever.

You Abandoned Christianity? Do you believe in Christ? And isn't abandoning Christianity the same as abandoning Christ? Christianity follows the teachings of Jesus, it follows His ways - and Jesus is God. So what do you think Just asking.

I don't worry about things that are inevitable, like dying, or things that cannot be known, like what happens after death.

not worry about What happens after death.
I don't understand.

 

[KetherMalkuth]

Good questions Classik, I will answer them the best I can. What I don't understand is why it is assumed that a person who rejects christ also rejects God. A while back I set out to find answers to the many questions I had regarding the Bible, specifically the origin, authenticity, and validity of it. My goal was to establish a foundation of truth to further solidify my faith in Jesus, but needless to say, I found answers I didn't want, or expect to find. It was a very difficult time for me and I argued with myself for a long time about whether or not I should even be seeking these answers. Ultimately I came to a few certainties. Everything in creation has a creator. That creator is what I consider God. And nothing truly dies, only transforms. For instance, if you burn a stick it doesn't disappear, it transforms into smoke. I believe that rule applies to all things. The question is what do we transform into? I also realized that you cannot know truth without discovery. In other words, you cannot tell me that 2+2=4 and expect me to know it's true. I must add them together myself to truly know they equal 4, otherwise I'm just a believer. When it comes to death and beyond, I know that I must die to know the truth. So I find it hard to seek advice from people who claim to know the truth, when in reality, they know no more than you, me, or anyone else. They are merely just experts in the study of the Bible. I don't worry about the afterlife in the christian sense. I do not fear eternal damnation for not being a member of the christian church, but I do believe that the energy you create will determine the outcome of your life. I believe that God is everything, and everywhere. I respect and appreciate all things God created, and strive for unity and humanity. I am far from perfect but will continuously work towards the purification of my soul. I feel that this is what God wants from me so I'm secure with whatever awaits me after death. Hope this clears things up a bit but ask as many questions you'd like. I appreciate your input.

 

[Classik]

Thanks for your response
I will be replying as soon as possible. It gives me joy that at least you have a belief in God. It is better than not believing at all.
A single question ( for the mean time )I'd like to ask, (I know it isn't an easy one to answer ) is: how were you able to discover God? Faith? Or proof ?

 

[KetherMalkuth]

I guess the easiest way to explain it is like this. I did a lot of research in an attempt to prove my faith was correct, or at least plausible. I came to the realization that I could not prove, or offer any justifiable reason to say that another persons belief was wrong. With that in mind I could not consider myself to be a true christian if christianity claims to be the one true way. I also believe that anybody should be able to connect with God with the greatest ease. This led me to believe that the God concept should be simplistic in nature, and not so complicated to understand. I believe that all things are born with a set of rules inbedded in us that helps us to determine the difference between right and wrong. I now use simple logic for the foundation of my belief system. When I realize a paradox in the structure of my faith, I look at it from every angle I can until I feel I have a clear understanding of it, then I rely on my intuition and instincts to help determine the most reasonable answer or solution. If something compromises my belief, or makes more sense, I expect that my belief will shift.

 

[Free]

I guess the easiest way to explain it is like this. I did a lot of research in an attempt to prove my faith was correct, or at least plausible. I came to the realization that I could not prove, or offer any justifiable reason to say that another persons belief was wrong. With that in mind I could not consider myself to be a true christian if christianity claims to be the one true way. I also believe that anybody should be able to connect with God with the greatest ease. This led me to believe that the God concept should be simplistic in nature, and not so complicated to understand. I believe that all things are born with a set of rules inbedded in us that helps us to determine the difference between right and wrong. I now use simple logic for the foundation of my belief system. When I realize a paradox in the structure of my faith, I look at it from every angle I can until I feel I have a clear understanding of it, then I rely on my intuition and instincts to help determine the most reasonable answer or solution. If something compromises my belief, or makes more sense, I expect that my belief will shift.

Using simple logic then, since you "came to the realization that I could not prove, or offer any justifiable reason to say that another persons belief was wrong," how is it that you "could not consider myself to be a true christian if christianity claims to be the one true way"? You are concluding that those who believe Christianity is the one true way are wrong.

This is the inevitable contradictory conclusion of all religious beliefs which state that all paths lead to God, or something of that sort. It all sounds nice and tolerant of others' beliefs, but in the end the conclusion shoots the argument in the foot.

To say that "I also believe that anybody should be able to connect with God with the greatest ease. This led me to believe that the God concept should be simplistic in nature, and not so complicated to understand," is to first presume ideas about God and "his" nature. On what basis do you justify this? Is "God" good? Is "he" eternal? Is "he" worthy of our love, worship and devotion? How do you know "God" is a being that we would want to connect with in the first place? If God is all those things, and more, would he not be incredibly complicated to understand, quite possibly even beyond human comprehension?

I also realized that you cannot know truth without discovery. In other words, you cannot tell me that 2+2=4 and expect me to know it's true. I must add them together myself to truly know they equal 4, otherwise I'm just a believer. When it comes to death and beyond, I know that I must die to know the truth. So I find it hard to seek advice from people who claim to know the truth, when in reality, they know no more than you, me, or anyone else.

I do not need cancer to know that it kills. I do not need to be in a car accident to know that the forces of physics will likely lead me to being injured. I don't need to travel to Pluto to believe that it is there. I don't need to have been in WWI to believe that it actually happened. I don't need to have lived in Jesus' time and seen him to believe that he is who he claimed to be.

There most certainly are good reasons to be able to know truth apart from discovery. What your position effectively does is rule all history unknowable as truth.

 

[Classik]

What I don't understand is why it is assumed that a person who rejects christ also rejects God.

I see you take Christ and God to be two different Individuals (supernatural). This is where the problem lies. Christ is God. We have the three of them in trinity. Do not look at the 'them'...it is only a 'Him', with each playing a significant or particular role. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit all appeared in the bible. They are just one - trinity.
--
Rejectin Christ and accepting God is similar to one rejecting the right part of the body. You have just split a body laterally and have chosen one part.
--You could ask: 'Is Christ the only way to get to God?' YES! Which God - JEHOVA. There are other 'gods'. The only road to God (not god/s) is Jesus. (...that god that did not make the heaven and the earth shall be destroyed by God)
--
Christ said: 'I and my father are one' John 10:30
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father 14:9

Look at John 14:6
Jesus said to him, ¡°I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me
--
You said you used to be a Christian but now you do not care about Christianity and religion. If Christ is the only Way to get to God...and you have kind of rejected Him...you need to ask youreslf the question: Am I doing the right thing?

A while back I set out to find answers to the many questions I had regarding the Bible, specifically the origin, authenticity, and validity of it. My goal was to establish a foundation of truth to further solidify my faith in Jesus, but needless to say, I found answers I didn't want, or expect to find. It was a very difficult time for me and I argued with myself for a long time about whether or not I should even be seeking these answers.

Christ is that answer!!! You will find out one day. I have proofs of His existence. But I can't put it in words. It has to do with a personal experience.
I too embarked upon a similar journey - He helped me out before I could go far or perish in my foolishness. God is not a mathematical equation where you keep finding x.
2+4X = 10....find X. . I do not need a rocket that shoots into heaven in order to see God. He is everywhere.

Ultimately I came to a few certainties. Everything in creation has a creator. That creator is what I consider God.

:yes

And nothing truly dies, only transforms. For instance, if you burn a stick it doesn't disappear, it transforms into smoke. I believe that rule applies to all things. The question is what do we transform into?

That transformation is called death.
Â0½5

I also realized that you cannot know truth without discovery. In other words, you cannot tell me that 2+2=4 and expect me to know it's true. I must add them together myself to truly know they equal 4, otherwise I'm just a believer. When it comes to death and beyond, I know that I must die to know the truth. So I find it hard to seek advice from people who claim to know the truth, when in reality, they know no more than you, me, or anyone else. They are merely just experts in the study of the Bible. I don't worry about the afterlife in the christian sense. I do not fear eternal damnation for not being a member of the christian church, but I do believe that the energy you create will determine the outcome of your life. I believe that God is everything, and everywhere. I respect and appreciate all things God created, and strive for unity and humanity. I am far from perfect but will continuously work towards the purification of my soul. I feel that this is what God wants from me so I'm secure with whatever awaits me after death. Hope this clears things up a bit but ask as many questions you'd like. I appreciate your input.

But we can't know everything:D It does not work that way. You need to believe. 2+2 = 4 yes. You can prove it. How about other things you can't prove?
Look at this: A scientist comes back to earth and tells you the planet Pluto is this and that, would you need to travel to pluto to agree it is true. You need to believe! Faith.
I do not need to perform all the experiments in the world to agree that this is this in science. As students you need to perform some experiments and not all. Water exists down there under the soil. Why not climb down into the water to believe. That little water which you see and which is pumped out is the little faith which makes you believe - there is water in abundance down there.
Electrons exist. Are you going to split an electrical wire? Seeing it clearly has not quite been easy yet. You are alive. What makes you think you are not dead?
You can see how difficult it is.
God knows how to save us from such problems.
--
You should not worry about the afterlife only when you are convinced you will be with God at His Dinning table. We should not bother about the afterlife when we know we Would be doing a happy ball game with Jesus and the angels.
But God sent His son for a purpose: He died for us so as to reconcile us with God... So that when we die we make heaven and no hell. This is the reason for our christianity - securing you for heaven. Then we should be worried about something: when I die...'where'?

 

[KetherMalkuth]

"Christ is that answer!!! You will find out one day. I have proofs of His existence. But I can't put it in words. It has to do with a personal experience."
I need to know Classik, are you saying you can prove it, but you can't?
I understand that you really do believe that what you say. I'm not too far removed from christianity to remember how powerful faith can be. I'm sure you had an incredible experience but I wonder how you knew Jesus was involved. It appears to me that you rely on the Bible as your proof, but who really wrote it? Jesus? No, it was man. I don't understand how anybody can read the Bible and not question it. Jesus repeatedly claims that the only way to God is through him, and if we follow him we will receive eternal life. Eerily similar to the temptation when the devil said to follow him and he would receive all the kingdoms and heavens, don't ya think?:eeeekkk The similarities between the old testament and new testament are undeniable, and both are obviously inspired by the Egyptian book of the dead. The Epic of Gilgamesh tells the story of the ark and great flood. There is nothing original in the Bible. If you want the real story you should go to the source. As far as truth, I do consider the history of man to ultimately be unknowing, but we have developed a tolerance for what we can and cannot know. To Free, of course you don't need cancer to know it kills, but do you "know" it or "trust" that the scientific proof is reliable? Do you think that before cancer was discovered people knew cancer was responsible for killing? I'm sure there was some theory that everyone bought into, and they were wrong. There are lots of examples of things we don't need to discover to accept them to be true, and most people will agree on these things because science has proven it, and we have no reason not to accept things like there really being a planet called Pluto, or that a car crash causes injuries. But when someone tells me that Jesus is God because it says so in a book, I have to question it. I'd also like to correct Free when he states what "I" have concluded about christ and religion. I have concluded nothing. If anything I think I've stressed the point that none of it can be concluded. I merely only perceive God differently than you do. Can you prove my perception wrong? If so I will stand corrected. But if not, isn't it foolish to say you're right and I'm wrong? Do you not see how religion forces you to "think" people who believe something else are wrong, making your judgement of them justifiable. Is this not the source of our world's conflicts? All rivers do lead to the sea, at least in reality. Most christians have never even read the bible. Know what you believe at least. And when you have questions, ask yourself because you're the only one who will be truly honest with you.
P.s. Classik, I know the meaning of death. To be more specific, what the result of our transformation, or death is what we do not know.

 

[Classik]

I came to the realization that I could not prove, or offer any justifiable reason to say that another persons belief was wrong. With that in mind I could not consider myself to be a true christian if christianity claims to be the one true way.

Of course we have gods. And christianity is 'the' only true way to 'the' God whose name is JEHOVAH!! I do not have any aquaintance with the others (supernatural ones)... I have known JEHOVAH.
--
--
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
(10 11 reminds me of spanner 10 ,11 - spanners usually have two usable sides...so which of these heads loosens your bolt?)

**
**
Jeremiah 10:10-11 NKJV
10 But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.
11 Thus you shall say to them: The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.

I also believe that anybody should be able to connect with God with the greatest ease.

Sure!!! Is your life and way right?

This led me to believe that the God concept should be simplistic in nature, and not so complicated to understand. I believe that all things are born with a set of rules inbedded in us that helps us to determine the difference between right and wrong. I now use simple logic for the foundation of my belief system. When I realize a paradox in the structure of my faith, I look at it from every angle I can until I feel I have a clear understanding of it, then I rely on my intuition and instincts to help determine the most reasonable answer or solution. If something compromises my belief, or makes more sense, I expect that my belief will shift.

You connect to God directly - you do not need Christ and christianity - you do not need any religion. How do you feel about it when it appears (assuming out of a million there are 2 of you who connect directly - without a belief) you are the only person doing it this way when several billions have a source or 'a road to'? Are we blind? It is a one-against-a-billion kind of situation.

 

[Classik]

Christ is that answer!!! You will find out one day. I have proofs of His existence. But I can't put it in words.

"Christ is that answer!!! You will find out one day. I have proofs of His existence. But I can't put it in words. It has to do with a personal experience."
I need to know Classik, are you saying you can prove it, but you can't?

Christ is God - and our ant head can't know the depth of His greatness.
...just His single touch - you can see everything

(Johnny Smith of the Dead Zone movie would say '...everything is changed - including me...one touch, I can see things...things that happened...things that will happen.... You should see what I see

Johnny Smith )

I understand that you really do believe that what you say. I'm not too far removed from christianity to remember how powerful faith can be. I'm sure you had an incredible experience but I wonder how you knew Jesus was involved.

He had and always has.

It appears to me that you rely on the Bible as your proof, but who really wrote it? Jesus? No, it was man. I don't understand how anybody can read the Bible and not question it.

The bible is the word of God - He wrote it through man.
But God once did write with His own finger. Moses broke the whole thing:angry2
Perhaps he did the right thing. He broke that stuff. A person like me would strive to see His handwriting. The whole world would too. Guess what? Global war!!! We all want to see the handwriting of God. Classik would steal such a thing, and some would worship it... :biglol
--
--
Not just the bible as a proof - life experiences all agree with the validity of Jesus being what the bible says He is.
Questioning the bible.
Those who have not met with Christ question the bible; those who have have no doubts

P.s. Classik, I know the meaning of death. To be more specific, what the result of our transformation, or death is what we do not know.

I agree with you. Whatever the transformation - you are either with God or with that sociopath. We prepare now that we are alive.

Jesus repeatedly claims that the only way to God is through him, and if we follow him we will receive eternal life

Already explained.
And what makes you think He isn't? Because you don't know God by that? My God is called Jehovah. He is El-shaddai. He is Whom I Am. Elohim, Adonai, Jireh, Nissi, Shalom etc...what is wrong about calling Him Jesus or seeing Him (God) as Jesus
http://www.characterbuildingforfamilies.com/names.html

--
If your friend's name is Messi, and you hear another person call him Pedro - I know you would be surprised. If I call him Fabregas or Ronaldo or Rooney or Persie or Torres or Xavier or Villa or Ozil or Chicharito etc I would get you embarrassed and surprised - you have not known him by these.
--
You are on the safer side of the fence: you acknowledge there is God. You are eager to know and have said you are ready to accept the truth if you see any. It makes you special.
--
Have you ever done anything in the name of Jesus before. I do not mean to embarrass you? Why not try a foolish thing in His name and see if you'd get a result . (By 'foolish' I hope you understand what I mean? Try that which you think is impossible: things like having faith in that Name, commanding situations in that Name, etc ...and if you don't get a result, 'quit')...and if you prefer it in IM, good.