Growth King and a Kingdom or it's about Him not His name

[K2CHRIST]

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.

If we know Jesus Christ we know the King and He has a kingdom so we should also have come to know the kingdom since and if we know the King. Of course the Jews did not know Him though He stood in front of them, otherwise it would have been find to have been handed over to them, and they off all people should have known Him. And Christians are grafted into the Jewish root, so how well do we know Him?

Jn 18:37 Therefor Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king? Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

If you know someone you talk to them don't you. That is you talk to them and hear what they have to say to you. You hear their voice. And if you hear the voice of the King, you are going to get instructions and follow them. Of course a king might write down instructions, but if you really know the King you are going to hear personal instructions spoken to you, and not just be depending on a book of law that the King had written.

Now if a king tells you to go do something and perhaps bring a message, you go in the name of the king. Still, it is possible to have never heard from the king and just say you come in the name of the king. There was a man with seven sons that was casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ until the demons figured out that him and his sons were not actually getting instructions from the Lord, and then it when bad for the man and his son.

If the man had know the King of kings, who is God and whose kingdom is in our midst, that man could have simply called on the King and his kingdom and help in abundance would have instantly been provided. But seeing that they didn't, the dark forces of this world caused them problems.

The point is that we absolutely need to know the King of kings and have Him as our Lord, and that before we start going around saying "In the name of Jesus Christ". It seems to me that too often we make it about the name of Jesus Christ (the King) instead of about Jesus Christ the King. Too many times we make it about knowing the writings about the King instead of making about actually know the King of kings. It seems to me that too many times I meet Christians that know the writing and go around saying "In the name of Jesus Christ" but don't seem to hear His voice, so they couldn't actually be following His personal instructions to them. Remember, He did say " Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

 

[Nathan]

This is exactly why there will be some standing before Him pleading that they did many things in His name - and He will look at them and tell them He never knew them.

 

[K2CHRIST]

So here is a question. Is the power in the name of Jesus Christ or is the power in the Kingdom of God of which Jesus Christ is the king?


We know the Kingdom of God has power, and I believe that God and His Kingdom might give assistance to those trying to glorify Jesus Christ the King, but as seen with the man and his seven sons, it might be a dangerous thing to just assume that because you say you do something in the name of Christ that you will have the power of the Kingdom behind you. Better to get your personal instructions from our Lord Jesus Christ and believe He will watch over you while you do what He has asked you.

 

[Nathan]

So here is a question. Is the power in the name of Jesus Christ or is the power in the Kingdom of God of which Jesus Christ is the king?


We know the Kingdom of God has power, and I believe that God and His Kingdom might give assistance to those trying to glorify Jesus Christ the King, but as seen with the man and his seven sons, it might be a dangerous thing to just assume that because you say you do something in the name of Christ that you will have the power of the Kingdom behind you. Better to get your personal instructions from our Lord Jesus Christ and believe He will watch over you while you do what He has asked you.

The power is in Christ alone. When He calls His servants to do His work they can do so "in His name". There is no power in words spoken by us, it is only spoken so the hearer of the words understand where they originate.

The man who said such things did so with enough convincing that the demons thought it was from God. But when they realized it was not from God, it turned out real bad.

We see from this one example just how 'un-powerful' demons and satan are. They only have the power to do the things they do because God allows them. They fear God, tremendously. They still want to do their own desires, so when they see that it was not God - but mere mortal man - they realized they did not have to obey.

I would definitely say that anyone 'doing' things for God should be sure that it is God calling them to do it. There are many people who realize God has power and try to use it for their own advantage and profit - even though they think they are doing 'good'.

 

[misbehaved11]

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.

If we know Jesus Christ we know the King and He has a kingdom so we should also have come to know the kingdom since and if we know the King. Of course the Jews did not know Him though He stood in front of them, otherwise it would have been find to have been handed over to them, and they off all people should have known Him. And Christians are grafted into the Jewish root, so how well do we know Him?

Jn 18:37 Therefor Pilate said to Him, "So You are a king? Jesus answered, "You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

If you know someone you talk to them don't you. That is you talk to them and hear what they have to say to you. You hear their voice. And if you hear the voice of the King, you are going to get instructions and follow them. Of course a king might write down instructions, but if you really know the King you are going to hear personal instructions spoken to you, and not just be depending on a book of law that the King had written.

Now if a king tells you to go do something and perhaps bring a message, you go in the name of the king. Still, it is possible to have never heard from the king and just say you come in the name of the king. There was a man with seven sons that was casting out demons in the name of Jesus Christ until the demons figured out that him and his sons were not actually getting instructions from the Lord, and then it when bad for the man and his son.

If the man had know the King of kings, who is God and whose kingdom is in our midst, that man could have simply called on the King and his kingdom and help in abundance would have instantly been provided. But seeing that they didn't, the dark forces of this world caused them problems.

The point is that we absolutely need to know the King of kings and have Him as our Lord, and that before we start going around saying "In the name of Jesus Christ". It seems to me that too often we make it about the name of Jesus Christ (the King) instead of about Jesus Christ the King. Too many times we make it about knowing the writings about the King instead of making about actually know the King of kings. It seems to me that too many times I meet Christians that know the writing and go around saying "In the name of Jesus Christ" but don't seem to hear His voice, so they couldn't actually be following His personal instructions to them. Remember, He did say " Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

What are your ideas of what His Kingdom is like that should be shared??

 

[K2CHRIST]

What are your ideas of what His Kingdom is like that should be shared??

We have a King, Jesus Christ. And we know God is spirit. So we are talking about a spiritual kingdom, or as Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." So the realm of this heavenly kingdom is spiritual, or otherwise stated: there is a spiritual realm in which the Kingdom of God exists. That is the kingdom of God consists of spirits!! It's not that all spirits serve the Lord and King Jesus Christ, but He is the King of kings, and that takes on a spiritual context.

Now we our in this physical world. We have flesh which is physical and it is in contact with the physical or earth realm at all times. So naturally we tend to concern ourselves with worldly or physical things, like sex, money, and the politics of this world. Yet we also have a spirit in which we can communicate with the spiritual realm, both the kingdom of God and or those spirits that are not serving the Lord of lords. Still, because we concern ourselves with the physical or earthly realm so much, we are not aware of the spiritual ( or heavenly) ream, nor the King or and His kingdom.

We see this explained in the Bible.

Is 6:1 ...I saw the Lord sitting on a throne... Seraphim stood above Him... my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts
Is 6:9... Keep on listening, but do not perceive; keep on looking, but do not understand
Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, no do they understand.
Mk 4:12 so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven.

So we have spiritual eyes and ears. We do and can see and hear with them but we don't see and hear with them, so we don't perceive the existence of that spiritual realm around us, so we don't understand that we need to turn to the King and be forgiven by Him.

And just like the above was written to and spoken to the Jews (God's chosen people) and seeing how Christians are grafted into the Jewish root, those same things apply to Christians today. Otherwise all of us Christians would know perfectly well about the Kingdom of God and they would know only know the King but also about His Kingdom. Have we not all been introduced to angelic beings that serve the King of kings? Do we all understand that we personally battle with the dark forces of this world?

Jesus said He was the door, so the door to what? Jesus, the King, is the One you have to talk to so that you can get into the Kingdom of God. And if you are born again you will hear the sound of the wind. So it is that I personally know the King. He calls me His friend and He tells me He loves me. And He has introduced me to many angels. And it is interesting to hear what they have to say, though the Lord and King has the words of God. But if someone knows the King, how is it possible that they have not come to know His kingdom and some of those who are part of it?

Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to render service for the sake of those will inherit salvation?

Well, they certainly are, and it is interesting listening to them. Still it is also written over and over, "TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE DO NOT HARDEN YOU HEARTS..." Heb 3:7, Heb 3:15, Heb 4:7

Yet that is what men do. And though you explain clearly, "Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the Lord speaks" (Is 1:2) men do not seek the voice of the Lord, and even some spirits in the heavens have turn evil and are not will to see the One who sits on the throne. So together they will be thrown into places reserved for them as judgment comes forth. And all they had to do was to seek the Lord and listen to Him.

Is 1:16 Learn to do good; seek justice

If you seek God, and it is Him who is just, and you will learn to do good. Only God is good.

Is 1:18 "Come now, and let us reason together," Says the Lord Thought your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow

If a person has spent time, and it would become much if not most of their time, reasoning and listening to God then certainly they would know the kingdom of God is in there midst's. They would understand that the spiritual realm has a great influence on all man kind. That there are so many spirits around us as we walk through our day. Understanding would start to become theirs, because God is Understanding and He makes know what was not made know to you. And He is Wisdom and He the Spirit of God brings the Word of God to your spirit and He the Spirit of God with His words, (which are not His but the Spirit speaks only what He hears and He hears the words of God which belong to the Son of God), and in this way the Spirit glorifies the Son of God, our Lord. So the spirit or heavenly realm control the physical as needed.

Yet God gave us life and in so doing the ability to choose. He says choose good, but we don't. We tend to choose evil. We don't seek God. And so we don't know about His kingdom. So even if I explain that I hear from God, and have talked to many angels that serve the King of kings and even call some friends like people call other people friends, many people if not most do not understand. With their eyes they do not see, and with there ears they do not hear, so they don't understand. They don't understand that Jesus stands at the door and knocks and if anyone at anytime will just hear Him and open the door, He will come into them and talk to them. He wants that. And He has a kingdom not of this world, and if you come to know the King (really and not just saying) you will come to know about His kingdom also. How could that not be so?

Mk 4:30 How shall we picture the kingdom of God... It is like a mustard seek, which when sown... it grows up and becomes larger than all the garden plants and forms large branches; so that the birds of the air can rest under it's shade.

Do you not know that a small word from the Lord spoken inside you grows and as you grow (spiritual speaking) the angels in the air will rest upon you? Then you will know about the kingdom of God.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

As a believer I am espoused to Jesus Christ as his bride. Am I a subject of his kingdom? no, I am an heir and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. The kingdom that God promised to the Hebrew people will be ruled by Christ and I will rule with his as his bride.

 

[RevSRE]

The First Century Church saw a person’s responsibility as a personal responsibility to God. The Old Testament says about 79 times something very near, “Hear my words (voice, commandments, instructions) and keep my commandments,(Law, Word) and I will be your GOD and you will be My people. When Jesus came He said “Change your mind” or “Change the way you think”, in other words stop disobeying me and ”Hear my voice, keep my commandments” Come near for the royal authority of God. What Jesus said is not so different from what had been said in the OT. Obey God keep his commandments and He will be your God, Jesus said Change the way you think, Obey Me, Come near for the indwelling of God’s Spirit (the Royal Power of God). What Jesus said was not so different from the OT.

Please bear with me it does not say kingdom, it says kingdom authority.
βασιλεία is an abstract idea used as Royal Power, the authority of a King to rule. Every greek speaking person in the NT times would have known this.

A word for word translation of this verse is: Mt 4:17
"Change your mind and draw near for “the royal power of God”. Note in this verse the “draw near” is in reference to the one changing their mind not the “a kingdom or royal authority”. There is no grammatical reason the move the “draw near” to a “kingdom of Heaven”. Change your mind is “You” second person plural, Draw near “the ones changing” is third person singular. Royal authority of heaven is the object of the preposition “for” and first person singular.

"You change your mind the ones changing draw near for the royal power of God"

The royal power of heaven is the power of the King of Kings, God's authority to rule over eternity. When changed by grace, children of God, we are heirs and joint heirs with Christ. He is the King there is only one King, yet as heirs we have the power (βασιλεία) of The King. When Christ said Mat 16:28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Power. The word βασιλεία is used that is "Coming in His Royal Power."

 

[dirtfarmer]

The First Century Church saw a person’s responsibility as a personal responsibility to God. The Old Testament says about 79 times something very near, “Hear my words (voice, commandments, instructions) and keep my commandments,(Law, Word) and I will be your GOD and you will be My people. When Jesus came He said “Change your mind” or “Change the way you think”, in other words stop disobeying me and ”Hear my voice, keep my commandments” Come near for the royal authority of God. What Jesus said is not so different from what had been said in the OT. Obey God keep his commandments and He will be your God, Jesus said Change the way you think, Obey Me, Come near for the indwelling of God’s Spirit (the Royal Power of God). What Jesus said was not so different from the OT.

Please bear with me it does not say kingdom, it says kingdom authority.
βασιλεία is an abstract idea used as Royal Power, the authority of a King to rule. Every greek speaking person in the NT times would have known this.

A word for word translation of this verse is: Mt 4:17
"Change your mind and draw near for “the royal power of God”. Note in this verse the “draw near” is in reference to the one changing their mind not the “a kingdom or royal authority”. There is no grammatical reason the move the “draw near” to a “kingdom of Heaven”. Change your mind is “You” second person plural, Draw near “the ones changing” is third person singular. Royal authority of heaven is the object of the preposition “for” and first person singular.

"You change your mind the ones changing draw near for the royal power of God"

The royal power of heaven is the power of the King of Kings, God's authority to rule over eternity. When changed by grace, children of God, we are heirs and joint heirs with Christ. He is the King there is only one King, yet as heirs we have the power (βασιλεία) of The King. When Christ said Mat 16:28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Power. The word βασιλεία is used that is "Coming in His Royal Power."

hello RevSRE, dirtfarmer here

Does the bride have the power to rule with Christ? As I understand Jesus was "the king of the Jews", but I don't find that he was "King of the Church" but was the "bridegroom" of the Church, waiting for the marriage and the marriage feast with his bride in heaven during the 7 year tribulation on earth. During that 7 year period there will only be 12,000 from each of the12 tribes of Israel that will survive because they have received the seal of God. These are those to whom Matthew 28:19-20 is in reference to. Verse 19 of Matthew 28 is in reverence to teaching the "nations" not the individual.

I understand that there are not many that believe as I do about Matthew 28, but this was said to the eleven and Saul(Paul) at that time was a Pharisee, not Paul the apostle

 

[RevSRE]

Does the bride have the power to rule with Christ?

With out a doubt YES!
I am not a Calvinist, I am so not a Calvinist that I am not even Armenian, I am not even a little bit Dispensationalist. There is so much teaching that is made up from the ideas of man trying to prove a therory that it is at times hard to find TRUTH!

When we are saved by Grace through Faith, we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, adopted into the family of God, This body with the Spirit in it becomes the temple of God and every Christian is a Priest of God with Jesus as our High Priest, We are a royal priest hood and in that office YES we will rule with Jesus.
Jesus was NEVER the King of the Jews they WANTED a king to sit on the throne of David. Jesus was not that King. Jesus was not the "King of the Church" far as I see there is not one. JESUS IS THE ETERNAL KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Do not over experss an illustration, The Bride, the Church, Are the ones that choose to Obey and fellowship with and love God,
There are two groups of people,
The ones that choose to obey God, Saints, priest, children, the family of God.
The ones that by a God given choice, choose the reject and ignore God They are LOST< LOST< LOST!!
Read two roads out of time and into eternity on my blog for more complete discussion.

 

[dirtfarmer]

With out a doubt YES!
I am not a Calvinist, I am so not a Calvinist that I am not even Armenian, I am not even a little bit Dispensationalist. There is so much teaching that is made up from the ideas of man trying to prove a therory that it is at times hard to find TRUTH!

When we are saved by Grace through Faith, we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, adopted into the family of God, This body with the Spirit in it becomes the temple of God and every Christian is a Priest of God with Jesus as our High Priest, We are a royal priest hood and in that office YES we will rule with Jesus.
Jesus was NEVER the King of the Jews they WANTED a king to sit on the throne of David. Jesus was not that King. Jesus was not the "King of the Church" far as I see there is not one. JESUS IS THE ETERNAL KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

Do not over experss an illustration, The Bride, the Church, Are the ones that choose to Obey and fellowship with and love God,
There are two groups of people,
The ones that choose to obey God, Saints, priest, children, the family of God.
The ones that by a God given choice, choose the reject and ignore God They are LOST< LOST< LOST!!
Read two roads out of time and into eternity on my blog for more complete discussion.

hello RevSRE, dirtfarmer here

It is my belief that under the old covenant there was the Hebrew and the heathen(Gentile), but since the cross of Calvary I see 3 classes of people: The Hebrew(Jew), the heathen( the lost), and Church(the bride of Christ). The body of Christ is the bride of Christ and after salvation, no believer is called a sinner, but instead is called saint.

It is also my belief that Jesus Christ is "The King of the Jews", as was written on his cross. The Jews were looking for the "messiah"; one to overthrow the Roman rule, but not a suffering savior, as was Jesus. After Christ returns for his bride there will be 7 years of tribulation, know as the time of Jacob's trouble.

The priest will be the 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe that will be sealed and preach the gospel of the Kingdom during the tribulation and the time of the 1000 year kingdom that was promised to the Jews. To be saved one must be faithful unto the end or be killed before while still believing. At this time Christ will sit on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

 

[K2CHRIST]

dirtfarmer here

As a believer I am espoused to Jesus Christ as his bride. Am I a subject of his kingdom? no, I am an heir and joint-heir with Jesus Christ. The kingdom that God promised to the Hebrew people will be ruled by Christ and I will rule with his as his bride.

Is the family of the King part of the kingdom and subject to the King?

The answer of course is yes. The question: "Am I a subject of his kingdom is a really bad question! Because the kingdom, all those in the kingdom, are subject to the king. It is never a question of being a subject of the kingdom but rather the King. However that said, are there not positions of authority given out by the Kin? Of course there are.

If a young prince is but under an instructor by the King for a purpose, is not that young prince subject to the authority of the instructor for the purpose of assigned by the King? OH Yes, and if the instructor assigned by the King brings an issued of discipline to the attention will not the loving father, who is King, take appropriate action and discipline the young prince. It is written that a father who loves his son will discipline him. And that 'spare the rod' can be related to the Bible.

So if a person knows the King, and indeed if a person is an heir, how much more should they be aware of the kingdom and how authority is issued in it. And even Jesus when talking to Pilot explain to Pilot that he would have no authority of Him, (the King) had not His Father in heaven given it to him. So Jesus was fully aware of the kingdom (of which He was the King) and how authority was handed down from heaven. He knew that all authority (good or evil) came down from God, and He was also aware that He Himself was the King of a kingdom that was not of this world. BUt we do not understand. And isn't that because we do not listen with our spiritual ears. We tend to be rebellious children who have eyes but do not see, and have ears but do not hear. We fulfill what Isaiah wrote:

Is 1:2... Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; for the Lord speaks, "Sons I have reared and brought up, but they have revolted against Me. An Ox knows its owner, and a donkey its master's manger, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand."... They have despised the Holy One of Israel, They have turned away from Him.

Yeah, we are grafted into the Jewish root, but as people we have acted just like those people that have gone before us. We don't listen and seek the Lord, who is Lord of lords and King of kings. So we don't understand how things work. All authority comes down from above and we, even as children of the most high, are subject to those place in authority above us. However, as children of the Most High, we can talk to Him about it. If an instructor has abused his God given authority, what will God do to him, and especially if that abuse is against his son?

I would not want to have been Pilot. And I would not want to be anyone in authority who does not treat a son of the Lord correctly. However, a son can also expect the rod if he is the one not paying attention in a class assigned to him by the King. The Lord discipline who He loves. So my fellow Christians, we had better listen and pay attention. And if you have done that surely you will know about the kingdom that is not of this world which our King talked about.

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, " My kingdom is not of this world, If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My Kingdom is not of this realm."

"but as it is" ??? Is it still that way??? Is it as it was when Jesus died? The Jews, though they were God's chosen people did not recognize the King. They did not know about His kingdom. They did not listen though Isaiah had told them to. They were children raised up but did not know their Lord's manger. And to me, sadly, it still seems that is true today. It too often seems that those grafted into the Jewish root, have acted just exactly like "The Jews" which were call God's chosen. Of them it was written, "But Israel does not know, My people do not understand" So today can it be said, "But Christians do not know, My people do not understand?"

But they didn't listen to Isaiah who testified "I saw the Lord sitting on a throne"(Is 6:1). And wrote "Keep on listening, but do not perceive; keep on looking, but do not understand." (Is 6:9) So it is that I have tried to explain about the Kingdom of God, but who will listen, and who will see? Who will indeed believe is the King of kings.

This morning He asked me to go on a walk with Him, He told me He was going to have me write, then talked to me about how Him being Lord of lords meant that He was not only the Lord over the heavenly but also over all, but not all listened. So whether someone was a heavenly being or a person that was given authority on earth, He was still God and King and reigned. Then He explained that if someone has a boss, does not the boss give instruction? So anyone in authority does get instructions from Him, the Lord of lords. But do they listen? If they listened they would be able to tell others what they heard. So if they can not tell others what they heard they did not listen. And if they did not listen, who should be put over them? Should he continue to deal directly with them, of should they not be taught a lesson in hope they would then want to listen to Him?

Still, since He is Lord of lords, His instructions can be handed down, and there might even be other reason for those placed above us. So while it is written, "You have put all things in subjection under His feet" ( Heb 2:8) It is also written, "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation. (Heb 1:14) So if anyone is indeed someone that will inherit salvation they surely have been ministered to my angel who were sent to them by Him all things are subject to. So how can anyone say they are going to inherit salvation and not understanding about the ministering spirits sent to them?

My friends. I went long. But there is and has been a problem, with God's people not listening. It causes people to lack understanding. They don't become aware to the King and His kingdom. They might say they are God's chosen people, but we know it was in the midst of God's chosen people that the King was crucified. And we have been grafted into the root. So should we act like they acted and be unaware of the Kingdom of God which is not of this world like they were. If the King again comes out of that heavenly Kingdom ( which is in our midst) and again comes into this physical realm, will it again be to go to the cross and forgive the unbeliever and rebellious child who will not listen, or will He come with judgment in HIs wings?

"Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; for the Lord speaks" -- Have you not heard Him. Have you know heard the conversation He has, even as Lord of lords, and King of kings. Have you not also seen Him sitting on the throne with His kingdom around Him? Do you know and understand?

 

[Chopper]

So angels speak to you K2CHRIST? Hmm.

 

[RevSRE]

All this "KINGDOM" stuff is interesting, BUT it does not say KINGDOM!!

The First Century Church saw a person’s responsibility as a personal responsibility to God. The Old Testament says about 79 times something very near, “Hear my words (voice, commandments, instructions) and keep my commandments,(Law, Word) and I will be your GOD and you will be My people. When Jesus came He said “Change your mind” or “Change the way you think”, in other words stop disobeying me and ”Hear my voice, keep my commandments” Come near for the royal authority of God. What Jesus said is not so different from what had been said in the OT. Obey God keep his commandments and He will be your God, Jesus said Change the way you think, Obey Me, Come near for the indwelling of God’s Spirit (the Royal Power of God). What Jesus said was not so different from the OT.

Please bear with me it does not say kingdom, it says kingdom authority.
βασιλεία is an abstract idea used as Royal Power, the authority of a King to rule. Every greek speaking person in the NT times would have known this.

A word for word translation of this verse is: Mt 4:17
"Change your mind and draw near for “the royal power of God”. Note in this verse the “draw near” is in reference to the one changing their mind not the “a kingdom or royal authority”. There is no grammatical reason the move the “draw near” to a “kingdom of Heaven”. Change your mind is “You” second person plural, Draw near “the ones changing” is third person singular. Royal authority of heaven is the object of the preposition “for” and first person singular.

"You change your mind the ones changing draw near for the royal power of God"

The royal power of heaven is the power of the King of Kings, God's authority to rule over eternity. When changed by grace, children of God, we are heirs and joint heirs with Christ. He is the King there is only one King, yet as heirs we have the power (βασιλεία) of The King. When Christ said Mat 16:28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Power. The word βασιλεία is used that is "Coming in His Royal Power."

 

[Edward]

The power is in Christ alone. When He calls His servants to do His work they can do so "in His name". There is no power in words spoken by us, it is only spoken so the hearer of the words understand where they originate.

You said a mouthful there, Brother. Though there is power in the words spoken by us (if we are in Christ, and Christ in us). He gave to us all authority (Luke 10:19). The key to it all, is like you say, in His Name. Brother, have you ever looked up "name" in the greek? It blew my mind. It's G3686 (Name), "onoma" which means (literally or figuratively)...(authority and character)...

So when we speak in the (authority and character) of Jesus Christ, we could...say to this tree, go plant yourself in the ocean, and it shall be. I think a lot of times when peoples words (prayers) fail them, they wonder why, but it probably was not (in His name) in the authority and character of Jesus. So they tend to dismiss the notion that our words have power, when in fact they do, in His name.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Is the family of the King part of the kingdom and subject to the King?

The answer of course is yes. The question: "Am I a subject of his kingdom is a really bad question! Because the kingdom, all those in the kingdom, are subject to the king. It is never a question of being a subject of the kingdom but rather the King. However that said, are there not positions of authority given out by the Kin? Of course there are.

If a young prince is but under an instructor by the King for a purpose, is not that young prince subject to the authority of the instructor for the purpose of assigned by the King? OH Yes, and if the instructor assigned by the King brings an issued of discipline to the attention will not the loving father, who is King, take appropriate action and discipline the young prince. It is written that a father who loves his son will discipline him. And that 'spare the rod' can be related to the Bible.

So if a person knows the King, and indeed if a person is an heir, how much more should they be aware of the kingdom and how authority is issued in it. And even Jesus when talking to Pilot explain to Pilot that he would have no authority of Him, (the King) had not His Father in heaven given it to him. So Jesus was fully aware of the kingdom (of which He was the King) and how authority was handed down from heaven. He knew that all authority (good or evil) came down from God, and He was also aware that He Himself was the King of a kingdom that was not of this world. BUt we do not understand. And isn't that because we do not listen with our spiritual ears. We tend to be rebellious children who have eyes but do not see, and have ears but do not hear. We fulfill what Isaiah wrote:

Is 1:2... Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; for the Lord speaks, "Sons I have reared and brought up, but they have revolted against Me. An Ox knows its owner, and a donkey its master's manger, But Israel does not know, My people do not understand."... They have despised the Holy One of Israel, They have turned away from Him.

Yeah, we are grafted into the Jewish root, but as people we have acted just like those people that have gone before us. We don't listen and seek the Lord, who is Lord of lords and King of kings. So we don't understand how things work. All authority comes down from above and we, even as children of the most high, are subject to those place in authority above us. However, as children of the Most High, we can talk to Him about it. If an instructor has abused his God given authority, what will God do to him, and especially if that abuse is against his son?

I would not want to have been Pilot. And I would not want to be anyone in authority who does not treat a son of the Lord correctly. However, a son can also expect the rod if he is the one not paying attention in a class assigned to him by the King. The Lord discipline who He loves. So my fellow Christians, we had better listen and pay attention. And if you have done that surely you will know about the kingdom that is not of this world which our King talked about.

Jn 18:36 Jesus answered, " My kingdom is not of this world, If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My Kingdom is not of this realm."

"but as it is" ??? Is it still that way??? Is it as it was when Jesus died? The Jews, though they were God's chosen people did not recognize the King. They did not know about His kingdom. They did not listen though Isaiah had told them to. They were children raised up but did not know their Lord's manger. And to me, sadly, it still seems that is true today. It too often seems that those grafted into the Jewish root, have acted just exactly like "The Jews" which were call God's chosen. Of them it was written, "But Israel does not know, My people do not understand" So today can it be said, "But Christians do not know, My people do not understand?"

But they didn't listen to Isaiah who testified "I saw the Lord sitting on a throne"(Is 6:1). And wrote "Keep on listening, but do not perceive; keep on looking, but do not understand." (Is 6:9) So it is that I have tried to explain about the Kingdom of God, but who will listen, and who will see? Who will indeed believe is the King of kings.

This morning He asked me to go on a walk with Him, He told me He was going to have me write, then talked to me about how Him being Lord of lords meant that He was not only the Lord over the heavenly but also over all, but not all listened. So whether someone was a heavenly being or a person that was given authority on earth, He was still God and King and reigned. Then He explained that if someone has a boss, does not the boss give instruction? So anyone in authority does get instructions from Him, the Lord of lords. But do they listen? If they listened they would be able to tell others what they heard. So if they can not tell others what they heard they did not listen. And if they did not listen, who should be put over them? Should he continue to deal directly with them, of should they not be taught a lesson in hope they would then want to listen to Him?

Still, since He is Lord of lords, His instructions can be handed down, and there might even be other reason for those placed above us. So while it is written, "You have put all things in subjection under His feet" ( Heb 2:8) It is also written, "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation. (Heb 1:14) So if anyone is indeed someone that will inherit salvation they surely have been ministered to my angel who were sent to them by Him all things are subject to. So how can anyone say they are going to inherit salvation and not understanding about the ministering spirits sent to them?

My friends. I went long. But there is and has been a problem, with God's people not listening. It causes people to lack understanding. They don't become aware to the King and His kingdom. They might say they are God's chosen people, but we know it was in the midst of God's chosen people that the King was crucified. And we have been grafted into the root. So should we act like they acted and be unaware of the Kingdom of God which is not of this world like they were. If the King again comes out of that heavenly Kingdom ( which is in our midst) and again comes into this physical realm, will it again be to go to the cross and forgive the unbeliever and rebellious child who will not listen, or will He come with judgment in HIs wings?

"Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; for the Lord speaks" -- Have you not heard Him. Have you know heard the conversation He has, even as Lord of lords, and King of kings. Have you not also seen Him sitting on the throne with His kingdom around Him? Do you know and understand?

hello K2CHRIST, dirtfarmer here

I have not ignored your post #12. I have been busy. There are some things that I will address, but not every point. Long post with many points are hard to answer every point. While I will agree scripture calls Jesus "King of Kings and Lord of Lords". It is my believe that is not in reference to the Church. It may be a few days before I can respond properly.

 

[dirtfarmer]

All this "KINGDOM" stuff is interesting, BUT it does not say KINGDOM!!

The First Century Church saw a person’s responsibility as a personal responsibility to God. The Old Testament says about 79 times something very near, “Hear my words (voice, commandments, instructions) and keep my commandments,(Law, Word) and I will be your GOD and you will be My people. When Jesus came He said “Change your mind” or “Change the way you think”, in other words stop disobeying me and ”Hear my voice, keep my commandments” Come near for the royal authority of God. What Jesus said is not so different from what had been said in the OT. Obey God keep his commandments and He will be your God, Jesus said Change the way you think, Obey Me, Come near for the indwelling of God’s Spirit (the Royal Power of God). What Jesus said was not so different from the OT.

Please bear with me it does not say kingdom, it says kingdom authority.
βασιλεία is an abstract idea used as Royal Power, the authority of a King to rule. Every greek speaking person in the NT times would have known this.

A word for word translation of this verse is: Mt 4:17
"Change your mind and draw near for “the royal power of God”. Note in this verse the “draw near” is in reference to the one changing their mind not the “a kingdom or royal authority”. There is no grammatical reason the move the “draw near” to a “kingdom of Heaven”. Change your mind is “You” second person plural, Draw near “the ones changing” is third person singular. Royal authority of heaven is the object of the preposition “for” and first person singular.

"You change your mind the ones changing draw near for the royal power of God"

The royal power of heaven is the power of the King of Kings, God's authority to rule over eternity. When changed by grace, children of God, we are heirs and joint heirs with Christ. He is the King there is only one King, yet as heirs we have the power (βασιλεία) of The King. When Christ said Mat 16:28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who shall not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Power. The word βασιλεία is used that is "Coming in His Royal Power."

hello RevSRE, dirtfarmer here

While I agree that all scripture can and should be used for correction, reproof, and instructions, but only scriptures written by Paul are to be used for doctrine for the Church. I know that most people don't agree or believe as I do, but that is OK, because it is my belief that Paul is the apostle to the "uncircumcisied".

As to your explanation of "royal authority" I have never thought of it that way, but being "joint heirs, co-heirs" with Christ, as I understand it means rule with equal authority. Even in earthly kingdoms of today, the family of "the royal" authority have rights and privileges that the subjects of their kingdoms don't have.

 

[RevSRE]

but only scriptures written by Paul are to be used for doctrine for the Church.

I very well know this line of thought, However, it is the most dangerous heresy I know of! If you want to tell me that the words and teaching of Jesus Christ don’t apply to HIS church the rest of your point is empty and meaningless I do not care to hear it.

 

[Chopper]

I'm responding to post # 1, your OP. I'm a little surprised that you would make a differential between our Master Jesus and His Name, as if they were two separate entities. Even though the Kingdom has some importance in this pre-official Kingdom age, our main focus should be obedience to what our Master Owner Jesus expects from His followers.

I believe that this Scripture is most important in this age....
1John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"

AND

1John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
5:15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him."

I don't want you to think that I'm bashing your thread and it's concepts, I'm not. It's just that the Kingdom of the Christ of God, Jesus is yonder, not present, and we know so little about it. Theoretically Jesus is a King. His official duties IMO won't happen until the Kingdom presents itself in the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, and then in the New Jerusalem.

Jesus and His Name is one and the same. When I say, "In the Name of Jesus Christ" I'm really saying if Jesus were here, He would do what I'm asking for. Why? because I know from my years in the Scriptures, I know quite well what the will of the Lord is according to His Nature. Therefore I know He hears my request, and if He hears me, I know my request will be answered.

Jesus' Name represents the God Nature in Him. His Name is as good as the Person of Jesus.

Again, I'm not criticizing your thread. You have pointed out some valuable aspects of the Person of Christ and His Kingdom. I felt that something was missing. I didn't mean any disrespect, that's not how I operate.

 

[dirtfarmer]

I very well know this line of thought, However, it is the most dangerous heresy I know of! If you want to tell me that the words and teaching of Jesus Christ don’t apply to HIS church the rest of your point is empty and meaningless I do not care to hear it.

hello RevSRE, dirtfarmer here

In Matthew 10:5-7, " These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not. But go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Does this apply to the Church? So yes, it is my belief that a workman should be able to rightly divide the word of truth.

If we don't "rightly divide the word of truth" and obey this command, how is it that Gentiles will be saved?