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Kingdom of God vs. the Kingdom of Heaven

I must correct myself. Revelation 21:1 says first heaven meaning there is actually a first heaven and that is where Jesus resides now and that is also where the dead in Christ are right now. Revelation 21 describes a new Heaven. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
so when a jew or a gentile leaves isreal he has left the kingdom of god? jesus only controls the nation of isreal. YOU limit god with that doctrine.

No, Jason does not take the time to read the whole post and learn anything. That is Jason's Issue just skimming post, Not Mike's issue. It's not my doctrine, I gave you the exact definition of Kingdom, it's a Greek Female noun and can't denote it's own place being a Female noun. Of course you would not know this if you did not bother to even look at it. Right?

I said.............................. The kingdom abides in US!!! Where we go the Kingdom Goes.

Focus Jason, you can do much better than this.... READ EVERYTHING NEXT TIME.

Just amazing.

Mike.

then why are YOU a pretribber then when you have separated that from this?

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/millen.html

he is premil and I got to a premil church and they teach the same as YOU. I asked I heard that once to be sure and what does pre mil teach a physical relocation of the throne from heaven to the earth. if that is the case the kingdom of god isn't a physical place or its not true as you say.

amil and partial preterism both teach that both the kingdom of heaven and of god are the same.

besides neither the jews nor the bible teaches this separation of spiritual and physical that is from the accursed greek stoicism.
 
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[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION] why then didn't the gospel writers say the exact same when the same question was asked? I mean both chapters are addressing the same issue and yet the change of words. tell us what he meant if we receive to two kingdoms?

8 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,
2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
16 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.
18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.
19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.
20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
22 Now it came to pass on a certain day, that he went into a ship with his disciples: and he said unto them, Let us go over unto the other side of the lake. And they launched forth.
23 But as they sailed he fell asleep: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy.
24 And they came to him, and awoke him, saying, Master, master, we perish. Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm.
25 And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this! for he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.
26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.
27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34 When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.
35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
36 They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.
37 Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.
38 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying,
39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
40 And it came to pass, that, when Jesus was returned, the people gladly received him: for they were all waiting for him.
41 And, behold, there came a man named Jairus, and he was a ruler of the synagogue: and he fell down at Jesus' feet, and besought him that he would come into his house:
42 For he had one only daughter, about twelve years of age, and she lay a dying. But as he went the people thronged him.
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
49 While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.
50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

and

The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

same parable. different writers that remember what he said and do they contradict. you appear to say that they do. why would the gospel need to be preached in the heaven where god is? if you are right?
 
As has been said, the kingdom of God is the same as the kingdom of heaven.

basileia= Kingdom

1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rule
1a) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom

This should clear it all up..

Mike.
If you want to quote Thayer's, quote it all, not just the parts that make it appear that what you are saying is correct:

G932
βασιλεία
basileia
Thayer Definition:

1) royal power, kingship, dominion, rule
1a) not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom
1b) of the royal power of Jesus as the triumphant Messiah
1c) of the royal power and dignity conferred on Christians in the Messiah’s kingdom
2) a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king
3) used in the N.T. to refer to the reign of the Messiah

So, yes, it very much can mean a literal kingdom.
 
Where God hangs out?...hmm...you're not reaching for straws are you? The kingdom of God is inside us yes, but where does God come from? He comes from a place. I admit God is omnipresent, but doesn't Revelation 21 explain Heaven and the dimensions.

@Brother Mike The Holy Spirit dwells inside of us, and the Holy Spirit comes from Heaven. We experience a piece of heaven now inside of us by his anointing, but we will actually see the place after we die.

Right Urk. Sorry if you did not like the term........"Where God hangs out"

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

The Holy Spirit in us. Right!!!

Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

God's will is not getting done very well on Earth, but we see why. The Heavens belong to God, the Earth belongs to us. I guess we are not so good at keeping things together. However, The kingdom of God abiding in us is the very system that operates Heaven. We sow, and reap. Men horde and are selfish. All of God's principles for running His Heaven is imparted in us though the word and Holy Spirit as our teacher.

So, when Jesus was here, He enforced His position in God, or operating the Kingdom of God here on earth by curing sickness and all kinds of stuff we have on Earth that is not in Heaven.



then why are YOU a pretribber then when you have separated that from this?

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/millen.html

he is premil and I got to a premil and they teach the same as YOU. I asked I heard that once to be sure and what does pre mil teach a physical relocation of the throne from heaven to the earth. if that is the case the kingdom of god isn't a physical place or its not true as you say.

Jason, what the heck you talking about? I am very concerned for you brother. It's like your just closing your eyes and hitting keys on the keyboard. What is premil? Sounds sort of like a Oatmeal or something. What does Pre-trib have to do with anything? We are not talking about a few year difference to be with Jesus here.

I have no Idea what idea your trying to get across to me.

Just follow the Word, that is all. It has nothing to do with being a Futureist, a preetreeeist, a pre-tribist........ Just the Word.

Kingdom of God is not a place. How is this not clear? Heaven is a place as it's a masculine noun. Kingdom is a Female noun and is not a place.
The English Word for Kingdom is a place, a noun.

malkûth / malkûyâh Is also not a specific place, but means to reign, or rule. The Hebrew Word we translated Kingdom. It means to rule a Kingdom. mâlak means to just rule.

basileia means royalty, ruler, it is not a place. (Kingdom)

To make it more simple. God's system, and ruling position, the same as God's rule in Heaven.

Nobody talked about a throne, or relocations, or anything of that sort. Where you get this stuff?

Mike.
 
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
same parable. different writers that remember what he said and do they contradict. you appear to say that they do. why would the gospel need to be preached in the heaven where god is? if you are right?

We know the Word does not contradict. They will be done on earth as it is in heaven. The Kingdom of God, once again for how many times is the will of God being enforced on Earth. The same principles that apply to the Lord's Heaven, are the same principles that abide in us. Same will, same way of doing things. There is nothing mentioned here about a Gospel being preached in Heaven.

Thy Kingdom come.......... Come where? To earth, in us. They will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Understanding how Heaven operates, is understanding how the Kingdom of God operates. One is a place, the other an operation of that place. There is no contradictions here. Why don't they teach this in Church?? The Kingdom of God being in us, has to do with our own right standing with God, doing things according to Kingdom principles. By the Kingdom of God, people were healed, and devils cast out.

How is it possible to have a subject so important as healing, and delivering people from satanic bondage Jason that you as a believer where never taught about this?

So, yes, it very much can mean a literal kingdom.

Free,I explained it once. The literal Greek Translation means Reign of God, Kingship. It's not a place!!! It's a female noun. It means rule of a kingdom, or our rule with God. The Thayer points 2 and beyond attempt to give an definition as thought to be used in the bible, it's not actual Greek. None of the concordances are. You should know this already though.

This was just a quick Google search. I picked the first one.

http://www.followingjesus.org/vision/reign_god.htm
Biblical scholars generally agree that the familiar term kingdom of God indicates the rule or reign of God. Some would limit it specifically to the activity of ruling. In other words they would suggest that Jesus was talking about what we might call the kingship of God, rather than God's kingdom. Yet this definition does not fully comprehend the constituency of the kingdom. It’s not just God, but God’s people that are part of the kingdom.

I don't know what they believe but it's close enough to the Greek.

Here is the straight Literal Greek.

βασιλεία
basileia; from G936; kingdom, sovereignty, royal power: - kingdom (159), kingdoms (3), reigns *(1).

Translated Kingdom 159 times, Kingdoms 3 times and reigns 1 time.
 
Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Luk_18:17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.


I find this interesting. In all of the scriptures that you quote, the whole long..list of them, Matthew always used Kingdom of Heaven, while both Mark and Luke used Kingdom of God, and all the scriptures are corresponding scriptures from the different Gospels. Author's preference?
 
[MENTION=7377]Brother Mike[/MENTION].

the jews teach two isreals and both are located in a physical place. the land of isreal. its the exact same with the kingdom of god. on is a physical place and other a spiritual and both exist at the same time. good luck trying get that to work in the millennium. NO body here is saying that the earth is fully shown the full manistifastion of gods will or redemption but.

as reba quotes often

" the kingdom of god isn't meat and drink , but of joy and of the HOLY ghost"

that is why I said if you are correct then when a jew or gentile leaves the very kingdom that is on the earth he leaves the kingdom, as He reigns only from Jerusalem. he doesn't control directly other nations as you can see in pre mil that lands can reject his will.in other words its not much different from today. he allows sin to be.
 
Where God hangs out?...hmm...you're not reaching for straws are you? The kingdom of God is inside us yes, but where does God come from? He comes from a place. I admit God is omnipresent, but doesn't Revelation 21 explain Heaven and the dimensions.

@Brother Mike The Holy Spirit dwells inside of us, and the Holy Spirit comes from Heaven. We experience a piece of heaven now inside of us by his anointing, but we will actually see the place after we die.

Right Urk. Sorry if you did not like the term........"Where God hangs out"

Psa 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

The Holy Spirit in us. Right!!!

Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

God's will is not getting done very well on Earth, but we see why. The Heavens belong to God, the Earth belongs to us. I guess we are not so good at keeping things together. However, The kingdom of God abiding in us is the very system that operates Heaven. We sow, and reap. Men horde and are selfish. All of God's principles for running His Heaven is imparted in us though the word and Holy Spirit as our teacher.

So, when Jesus was here, He enforced His position in God, or operating the Kingdom of God here on earth by curing sickness and all kinds of stuff we have on Earth that is not in Heaven.



then why are YOU a pretribber then when you have separated that from this?

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/millen.html

he is premil and I got to a premil and they teach the same as YOU. I asked I heard that once to be sure and what does pre mil teach a physical relocation of the throne from heaven to the earth. if that is the case the kingdom of god isn't a physical place or its not true as you say.

Jason, what the heck you talking about? I am very concerned for you brother. It's like your just closing your eyes and hitting keys on the keyboard. What is premil? Sounds sort of like a Oatmeal or something. What does Pre-trib have to do with anything? We are not talking about a few year difference to be with Jesus here.

I have no Idea what idea your trying to get across to me.

Just follow the Word, that is all. It has nothing to do with being a Futureist, a preetreeeist, a pre-tribist........ Just the Word.

Kingdom of God is not a place. How is this not clear? Heaven is a place as it's a masculine noun. Kingdom is a Female noun and is not a place.
The English Word for Kingdom is a place, a noun.

malkûth / malkûyâh Is also not a specific place, but means to reign, or rule. The Hebrew Word we translated Kingdom. It means to rule a Kingdom. mâlak means to just rule.

basileia means royalty, ruler, it is not a place. (Kingdom)

To make it more simple. God's system, and ruling position, the same as God's rule in Heaven.

Nobody talked about a throne, or relocations, or anything of that sort. Where you get this stuff?

Mike.

odd , you claim that you are pre tribulational rapture type and yet don't know even know your own position as that is what they teach. the premil is short for pre as in before the millennial reign of Christ. you do believe the 1000 yr reign of Christ hasn't happened yet.
 
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

I gave that scripture above, tied it with The will of God for heaven is the will of God for earth then at the end Jesus said seek the Kingdom of God. Your rightful pace and authority with God, know how God wants you to do things like not taking thought about needs. and the righteousness of God to get your needs met. Your right standing with God and God's righteousness that is revealed to us from faith to faith.

I gave them all these scriptures and.............. It don't help them a bit. Reba, how do stay not snarky!!! It's got to be hard.

This section devoted to Jason.

odd , you claim that you are pre tribulational rapture type and yet don't know even know your own position as that is what they teach. the premil is short for pre as in before the millennial reign of Christ. you do believe the 1000 yr reign of Christ hasn't happened yet.

the jews teach two isreals and both are located in a physical place. the land of isreal. its the exact same with the kingdom of god. on is a physical place and other a spiritual and both exist at the same time. good luck trying get that to work in the millennium. NO body here is saying that the earth is fully shown the full manistifastion of gods will or redemption but.

as reba quotes often

" the kingdom of god isn't meat and drink , but of joy and of the HOLY ghost"

Jason................... what the heck you talking about again. I gave the scripture also. The kingdom of God is not a place, has nothing to do with someone's stance on post or Pre trib. Who cares what some Jewish person said.

It's as if you need glasses, but never use them and are unable to read what I have typed. Get some help Brother, go talk to someone, get it off your chest. It's going to be OK.

just wow.

Mike.
 
I find this interesting. In all of the scriptures that you quote, the whole long..list of them, Matthew always used Kingdom of Heaven, while both Mark and Luke used Kingdom of God, and all the scriptures are corresponding scriptures from the different Gospels. Author's preference?


PERF :thumbsup
 
I gave them all these scriptures and.............. It don't help them a bit. Reba, how do stay not snarky!!! It's got to be hard.

I write and don't post :( Help them what ? follow your thinking? There is a difference between helping some one understand, why you believe what you, do or helping them change their heart/mind that is the responsibility of the Holy Spirit. Being here has taught me I really don't see the other guys mind... We each have a track we run on.... We are the body of Christ... He is the head... doesn't do the hand any good to try to stick a thumb on the foot.
 
It's as if you need glasses, but never use them and are unable to read what I have typed.

The issue for me is it has no practical significance.

The kingdom of God is the kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of God... We could talk all day long about the different aspects of the one kingdom of God/heaven and what aspects we see in this present world, and which ones are waiting for us, and it would be interesting, but I personally don't see how it changes how I act or think in my service to God now in this world.
 
I write and don't post Help them what ? follow your thinking? There is a difference between helping some one understand, why you believe what you, do or helping them change their heart/mind that is the responsibility of the Holy Spirit. Being here has taught me I really don't see the other guys mind... We each have a track we run on.... We are the body of Christ... He is the head... doesn't do the hand any good to try to stick a thumb on the foot


Your always right Reba!!!! Even I say that, and let frustration make me dumb as rocks forgetting that if God does not reveal something to someone, then no amount of screaming at them is going to make it more clear to them. In fact, God is always showing us new things because he has built enough foundation under us for us to finally get it. If he showed us to soon, we would be responsible for knowing it and not even understand most of it.

It's a simple thread though.... ughhhh

Is the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven different?

One is a place, one is how that place is ruled for Earth.

When Jesus came, He came with spiritual knowledge that the Greek did not always have the best Words to convey. So, Kingdom of God is good. Some translations use the "Reign of God" which is more correct sort of........... but the way Jesus used it Thy Kingdom Come, they will be done we don't really have a Greek word to convey that thought.

We being seated with Christ Jesus in Heavenly places and citizens of Heaven, no longer Earth being home. It's Our kingdom our home/ God's Heavenly Kingdom in us, here on earth with God, as a seated position in our real home, with Jesus, In Heaven. Another term more worldly would be a slice of Heaven in us, to bring to others.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The issue for me is it has no practical significance.

The kingdom of God is the kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of God... We could talk all day long about the different aspects of the one kingdom of God/heaven and what aspects we see in this present world, and which ones are waiting for us, and it would be interesting, but I personally don't see how it changes how I act or think in my service to God now in this world.

It wouldn't because one is the same operation of the other. However, when your trying to build the foundation of faith to lay hands on the sick, and walk in the power of God, then keeping in mind that Heaven, and all God has abides in you for someone else. Then it becomes important. It's God's way of operating things on Earth in us.

For example the rich have a hard time inheriting the Kingdom of God. Why? Because the rich will just buy something without taking second thought, and without asking God for it. King Asa did that and paid his way out of a bad situation that really upset the Lord, because King Asa did not go to God with the problem or seek the Lord on what to do.

God's way is sow and reap, that is how we make our living. The World's way is hoard and cut each others throat. They can't understand that the liberal soul gains far more than ones that horde and are selfish. That is Kingdom principles.

So wherever I go, I keep in mind I am bringing with me everything that Heaven has to offer for someone. It's in me, I don't have to beg or ask, but just believe.



Mike.
 
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My focus got changed from doctrines to practical behavior years ago. The church is champ at focusing on doctrines, but incredibly lame at making the connection between doctrine and behavior...behavior that matters.

Some things matter, some things don't in the kingdom of God...I mean kingdom of heaven...I mean...

In the end it is our behavior that will come under the microscope, not our doctrines.
 
Post #37 is your view, I will not bother to try and stick a thumb on you. Because I disagree with you it does not automatically follow I disagree with the Scripture. Makes me wonder how loud is God screaming at you?
 
Your always right Reba!!!!

Being married for almost 50 years I can read right through that :toofunny


My focus got changed from doctrines to practical behavior years ago. The church is champ at focusing on doctrines, but incredibly lame at making the connection between doctrine and behavior...behavior that matters.

Some things matter, some things don't in the kingdom of God...I mean kingdom of heaven...I mean...

In the end it is our behavior that will come under the microscope, not our doctrines.
Exactly
 
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