lake of fire real or symbolic

[ezra]

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. symbolic or real ? use scripture

 

[ezrider]

Is the lake of fire real or symbolic? How about is it symbolic of something real? Maybe you should ask what it was that the children of Israel witnessed when the wandered in the desert?

Exodus 19:16-18
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire:and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Deuteronomy 5:2-5
The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord:for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount.

Hebrews 12:18-21
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake.

 

[ezra]

Is the lake of fire real or symbolic? How about is it symbolic of something real? Maybe you should ask what it was that the children of Israel witnessed when the wandered in the desert?

Exodus 19:16-18
And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount. And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire:and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

Deuteronomy 5:2-5
The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire, (I stood between the Lord and you at that time, to shew you the word of the Lord:for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount.

Hebrews 12:18-21
For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake.

its just A discussion i had with another person . so i thought i would tos it here so my op stands

 

[LovethroughDove]

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

 

[ezra]

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

i agree but the person felt it was symbolic plus they used Ecclesiastes 9:5 for the dead know nothing ---- For the living know that they will die,
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name; is forgotten.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 plus If I were to die now, and be resurrected, I would be judged along with everyone else resurrected, If I were not found worthy of eternal life, I would be cast into the symbolic lake of fire which is the second death,not burning forever, God is not like that. this is part of our discussion she provided this http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/hell.html . i have read through part of it might i also add she at one time was involved in the Jehovah witness . she at first said if found worthy .then she changed that thought after i replied back. but i still am curious as per thoughts and other scriptures i may have overlooked

 

[JLB]

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. symbolic or real ? use scripture

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

The lake fire and brimstone is literal.
The torment from the fire is literal.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

Yes this is literal.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I know from your posts that you are of the same teaching but over and over the error with people is the lack of any real concept of what the scriptures are and without a correct notion whether it be close or spot on, without some concept that includes the truth of what the origin of the Bible, actually, is, there is no limit to the abuse that can be slapped onto it.

I have worked from the time I began teaching to instruct people in the use of what I term to be my First Rule of Hermeneutics. My rule, the rule Pastor Richard Clarke taught me to use goes; There can be no proper nor any complete understanding of any scripture, any collection of scriptures, nor of any complete or partial passage of scripture without the clear light of all other scripture shining on it/them.

And then, suddenly, people that demand the Old Testament, the Bible, has no part with the New Testament, encounter the Book of The Revelation of Jesus, the Christ and they ain't never seen nuttin like this before! And not having studied the original writings of our LORD they do not know how to handle the final installment of the scriptures.

I am not certain but it appears to me that they dislike the idea of ultimate justice and having never been awakened to the wrath and judgment of the one true and Just God.

 

[Free]

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. symbolic or real ? use scripture

It could be real or symbolic, which means it still points to something real. Whatever the Lake of Fire is--likely a place of fire and punishment (Hell)--it is the final destination of the wicked.

 

[Free]

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

This actually has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

 

[ezra]

This actually has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

lake of fire no but the eternal separation knowing what awaits yes

 

[Free]

lake of fire no but the eternal separation knowing what awaits yes

Well, no, I do not think it is about that either. It is about hades--the grave/pit which gets thrown into the Lake of Fire. Of course, it is likely a parable and tells us nothing about the state of the dead.

 

[ezra]

I know from your posts that you are of the same teaching

who ? i am well aware of scripture the lake of fire i dont believe is a physical fire as when we build a fire . it is a separation from God tormented , dark and hot. what ever it is being the lake of fire . i have no plans on finding out

 

[ezra]

Of course, it is likely a parable

i disagree on a parable because jesus never used the word parable this I M O . what ever method it was Christ wanted some ones attention and we do know the jew was prideful and put great stock in riches .the rich man the poor man

 

[Free]

i disagree on a parable because jesus never used the word parable this I M O . what ever method it was Christ wanted some ones attention and we do know the jew was prideful and put great stock in riches .the rich man the poor man

But Jesus didn't always use the word parable when speaking his parables, that I can see. We have to be very careful with this passage, as one verse or one passage does not a doctrine make. It really isn't clear one way or the other if it's a parable or not, but the whole point of the story is found in verses 29-31. We need to be careful with focusing too much on the surrounding details.

 

[ezra]

. We need to be careful with focusing too much on the surrounding details.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

the details are there separation the rich man { lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.} he was fully aware of where he was . more awareness only this time he asked for mercy {, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.} flames are mentioned along with other great details . not wanting any of his family to be there. but my O.P IS ABOUT
lake of fire real or symbolic

 

[Free]

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

the details are there separation the rich man { lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.} he was fully aware of where he was . more awareness only this time he asked for mercy {, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.} flames are mentioned along with other great details . not wanting any of his family to be there. but my O.P IS ABOUT
lake of fire real or symbolic

Yes, I am aware of what your OP is about. And a verse was brought up (Luke 16:24) which has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

 

[Malachi]

i agree but the person felt it was symbolic plus they used Ecclesiastes 9:5 for the dead know nothing

Typical cultic misrepresentation. Using Ecclesiastes to dis-establish New Testament truth, and ignoring all the teachings of Christ, and what happens to the dead after the resurrection of Christ..

 

[th1b.taylor]

who ? i am well aware of scripture the lake of fire i dont believe is a physical fire as when we build a fire . it is a separation from God tormented , dark and hot. what ever it is being the lake of fire . i have no plans on finding out

Yes, I know and I will not stand and get up in anyone's face either about it. Eternal separation from God will burn a person from the inside out that some volcano would only wish it could be so hot. I see it more like the kid in one of my war photos that was seated in the jungle, miserable, had not been near any water for better than two weeks and he had just finished reading a Dear John. He hurt so much death would have brought him joy... that kind of fire but worse and eternal. That's why I prefer the Great Abyss metaphor.

 

[Malachi]

Yes, I am aware of what your OP is about. And a verse was brought up (Luke 16:24) which has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

For all practical purposes, Hades for the unsaved is simply a foretaste of the Lake of Fire. All those who are outside of Christ do end up in Hades, awaiting the Lake of Fire. That is why it is imperative that all men see that "Now is the day of salvation".