lake of fire real or symbolic

[Malachi]

lake of fire real or symbolic

Why would it be symbolic if the Devil and his angels are not symbolic, but very real and very evil? Recently, there has been a huge push to dismiss Hell altogether.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Yes this is literal.

Yep!

 

[LovethroughDove]

This actually has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire.

Yes, it does

The lake of fire is the second death. Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The first death is the physical death we "all" experience. The second death is for those not written in the book of life (Rev 20:15)

 

[LovethroughDove]

i agree but the person felt it was symbolic plus they used Ecclesiastes 9:5 for the dead know nothing ---- For the living know that they will die,
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name; is forgotten.

Goes with their name is not written in the book of life, so they go into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15)

 

[Free]

For all practical purposes, Hades for the unsaved is simply a foretaste of the Lake of Fire. All those who are outside of Christ do end up in Hades, awaiting the Lake of Fire.

And "hades" simply means "grave" or "pit", at least roughly the equivalent of the OT sheol, if not rather identical. We simply don't have any certainty as to what Hades is like.

 

[Free]

Yes, it does

The lake of fire is the second death. Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The first death is the physical death we "all" experience. The second death is for those not written in the book of life (Rev 20:15)

So when the OP asks whether or not the Lake of Fire is symbolic or literal and to use Scripture, why did you post a single verse about Hades? Lots of things will get thrown into the Lake of Fire, including people, the devil and his angels, etc., but that has no bearing on whether the Lake of Fire is symbolic or literal.

 

[LovethroughDove]

So when the OP asks whether or not the Lake of Fire is symbolic or literal and to use Scripture, why did you post a single verse about Hades? Lots of things will get thrown into the Lake of Fire, including people, the devil and his angels, etc., but that has no bearing on whether the Lake of Fire is symbolic or literal.

You mean with the Rich man being in the fire? That scripture I posted? If so, I was showing literal fire, cause he wanted his tongue cooled down.

 

[Free]

You mean with the Rich man being in the fire? That scripture I posted? If so, I was showing literal fire, cause he wanted his tongue cooled down.

Right, and that is what I thought. The fire shown in that passage has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire. Do you believe that scripture is a parable or a true story?

 

[JLB]

We simply don't have any certainty as to what Hades is like.

Just st as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire.

 

[Free]

Just st as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire.

Based on...?

 

[Malachi]

And "hades" simply means "grave" or "pit", at least roughly the equivalent of the OT sheol, if not rather identical. We simply don't have any certainty as to what Hades is like.

Yes, it is unfortunate that the KJV translators called Sheol the grave. But as Christ revealed to us graphically it is NOT the grave, but is Hades in the lower parts of the earth, where the unsaved are in a literal fiery place of torment.
And in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:23,24).

 

[Free]

Yes, it is unfortunate that the KJV translators called Sheol the grave. But as Christ revealed to us graphically it is NOT the grave, but is Hades in the lower parts of the earth, where the unsaved are in a literal fiery place of torment.
And in hell [Hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:23,24).

How do you know it was the KJV translators that called Sheol the grave? What of the Hebrew? What about any extra-biblical writings and usage? One passage does not a doctrine make, especially when that passage is not clear as whether or not it is a parable. Not that it matters since it is about Hades and not the Lake of Fire.

Anyway, there really is no point discussing this further as it is off-topic.

 

[JLB]

Based on...?

Scripture.

23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
Luke 16:23-24


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

The lake of fire may be a real place or a metaphor as scripture gives no literal location, but is very descriptive as a place of outer darkness and torment and being eternal as all those people including Satan, the beast and the false prophet that are cast into it will be remembered no more. The duration of punishment for the one cast into the lake of fire is everlasting. Isaiah speaks of the everlasting burning of the fire that shall never be quenched and of the worm which shall never die (Isaiah 33:14; 66:24). David said that some would awake unto eternal life and others unto shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). John the Baptist and Jesus spoke of the unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12; Mark 9:43). Paul the Apostle speaks of how the lost will be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord (II Thessalonians 1:9). The Apostle John says that the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever; and they shall have no rest day and night; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever (Revelation 14:11; 19:3; 20:10). Jesus said that the lake of fire is a furnace of fire in Matthew 13:41, 42 and outer darkness in Matthew 22:13

The fact that the lake of fire is eternal is plain from the following verses where it is described as:

1. Everlasting fire.......................Matthew 25:41

2. Everlasting punishment...........Matthew 25:46

3. Eternal damnation..................Mark 3:29

4. Everlasting destruction.......... II Thessalonians 1:9

5. Everlasting contempt..............Daniel 12:2

6. Torment forever and ever.......Revelation 14:9-11

7. Blackness of darkness forever.....Jude 13

8. Vengeance of eternal life............Jude 7

9. Lake of fire--forever and ever......Revelation 20:10

10. Second death--forever..............Revelation 20:14

11. Elements melt, earth and works are burned up.......2Peter Chapter 3

God gives us a description as in fire and brimstone which can be used literal as in Sodom and Gomorrah burned to ashes and as a metaphor for torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Jude 1:7 clearly states an example of eternal fire. This is the same Greek word that is used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment as used in Matthew 18:8 and Matthew 25:41,46 (Notice: The place, as no real name is given, where the unsaved go is everlasting punishment, and not everlasting punishing. The punishment is eternal in its results, not in its duration. Unquenchable fire is a fire that cannot be quenched or put out until everything in its path is burned up.

 

[Free]

Scripture.

23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
Luke 16:23-24


JLB

Apart from this passage, do you have any other Scripture that backs up your statement: "Just st as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire."?

 

[JLB]

Apart from this passage, do you have any other Scripture that backs up your statement: "Just as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire."?

I really don't need anymore than the words from His mouth, that are the Truth.

For a fire is kindled in My anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Deuteronomy 32:22

Hell, here in the Septuagint is Hades.



JLB

 

[Free]

I really don't need anymore than the words from His mouth, that are the Truth.

It isn't that the words are from his mouth, it's having a proper understanding of those words.

For a fire is kindled in My anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell;
It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Deuteronomy 32:22

This is talking about the extent and power of his fire, not its location--"it shall consume the earth with her increase".

That Jesus is Lord is made abundantly clear through numerous explicit statements in the NT, but you have a likely parable in the NT and one verse in the OT which happens to mention "fire" and "Sheol" together (the context of which precludes this from being the "fires of hell"), and you really think that we can be "Just as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire"?

The most you can say is that it is a possibility that there is fire in Hades. There is no certainty at all.

But as I said previously, this is rather off-topic and I'm not going to discuss it anymore.

 

[ezra]

Apart from this passage, do you have any other Scripture that backs up your statement: "Just st as certain as we are that Jesus Christ is Lord, we are certain that Hades is Hell fire."?

so i take it you dont believe the lake of fire real. while none of know exactly .but there are far to many scriptures that points toward the eternal damnation of the fire . so with all the scriptures i have to say it is real and if we question the lake of fire john saw in his vision . then do we discount the coming judgement of men wanting to die and cant? or do we question his return?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Right, and that is what I thought. The fire shown in that passage has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire. Do you believe that scripture is a parable or a true story?

True story. Jesus used specific people.

 

[Free]

so i take it you dont believe the lake of fire real. while none of know exactly .but there are far to many scriptures that points toward the eternal damnation of the fire . so with all the scriptures i have to say it is real and if we question the lake of fire john saw in his vision . then do we discount the coming judgement of men wanting to die and cant? or do we question his return?

I do lean towards the lake of fire being real. I just think that Gehenna (Hell) is the lake of fire, not Hades (Grave). Jesus most certainly has yet to return in judgement.