lake of fire real or symbolic

[Free]

True story. Jesus used specific people.

Well, one of the two was given a name and doesn't tells us whether or not it was true. But I still don't see what that has to do with the lake of fire and whether it is literal or symbolic.

 

[AGustOfWind]

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. symbolic or real ? use scripture

I do not know.
Because, Gehenna, as we refer to it sometimes, was a real place, where there was child sacrifice, fires being kept lit for long periods of time, there was torture, fire, demon worship, all that.
Hell was also a word added into the bible, and it was never, ever there in the first place.
This is a quote from a website called justjohnwright


"Scholars generally agree that both Sheol and Hades meant ‘grave’, and started in ancient Jewish belief not as a place where punishment was dispensed, but as an underworld of forgetfulness and silence.8a Yet these somehow became conflated with the Greek concept of Tarturus, which involved punishment of evil. Christians don’t believe in Greek mythology, so why do they borrow its concepts regarding Hell? ‘Eternal fire’, ‘Lake of fire’ and other terms are thrown around in metaphor in the New Testament, before Hades itself is thrown into the lake of fire after all the dead people are emptied out of it (Revelation 20). How can Hell be sent to Hell? It is obvious that these terms have been mistranslated. (I’ll buy dinner for the first Christian who can make sense of that verse and still maintain the traditional doctrine of an eternal Hell.)"

I simply do not know.
If there is a hell, and all sinners are cast there, then wouldn't it make more sense for us all to end up there?
I consider it a possibility, and I lean towards there being some form of punishment. Albeit it is unbiblical.

There's just no scripture that specifically states, "Hell, is a literal, eternal form of punishment, of pain, and suffering, and melancholy, reserved for those who do not follow Christ"

I shan't further debate this.

 

[AGustOfWind]

Yes this is literal.

Alas, how would you know this?

 

[LovethroughDove]

Well, one of the two was given a name and doesn't tells us whether or not it was true. But I still don't see what that has to do with the lake of fire and whether it is literal or symbolic.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Right after this scripture is what happens to those not written in the book of life and the second death. (thrown into the lake of fire).

This can't be taken symbolically because it's burning sulfur and tormenting for ever and ever. Sounds awful!

The rich man in Luke 16 was in torment and it was hot.

 

[Free]

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Right after this scripture is what happens to those not written in the book of life and the second death. (thrown into the lake of fire).

This can't be taken symbolically because it's burning sulfur and tormenting for ever and ever. Sounds awful!

The rich man in Luke 16 was in torment and it was hot.

But you're using a verse about Hades (in Luke 16), which has nothing to do with the lake of fire.

 

[ezra]

to settle this we just take a black marker and blot out the word hell the lake of fire along with the white throne judgement.sad

 

[ezra]

I do not know.
Because, Gehenna, as we refer to it sometimes, was a real place, where there was child sacrifice, fires being kept lit for long periods of time, there was torture, fire, demon worship, all that.
Hell was also a word added into the bible, and it was never, ever there in the first place.
This is a quote from a website called justjohnwright


"Scholars generally agree that both Sheol and Hades meant ‘grave’, and started in ancient Jewish belief not as a place where punishment was dispensed, but as an underworld of forgetfulness and silence.8a Yet these somehow became conflated with the Greek concept of Tarturus, which involved punishment of evil. Christians don’t believe in Greek mythology, so why do they borrow its concepts regarding Hell? ‘Eternal fire’, ‘Lake of fire’ and other terms are thrown around in metaphor in the New Testament, before Hades itself is thrown into the lake of fire after all the dead people are emptied out of it (Revelation 20). How can Hell be sent to Hell? It is obvious that these terms have been mistranslated. (I’ll buy dinner for the first Christian who can make sense of that verse and still maintain the traditional doctrine of an eternal Hell.)"

I simply do not know.
If there is a hell, and all sinners are cast there, then wouldn't it make more sense for us all to end up there?
I consider it a possibility, and I lean towards there being some form of punishment. Albeit it is unbiblical.

There's just no scripture that specifically states, "Hell, is a literal, eternal form of punishment, of pain, and suffering, and melancholy, reserved for those who do not follow Christ"

I shan't further debate this.

i apologize for being so blunt . but lets just throw our bibles in the trash can sing kum bayah my lord

 

[Malachi]

But you're using a verse about Hades (in Luke 16), which has nothing to do with the lake of fire.

While the two places are not identical (and should be distinguished) they are inextricably connected. There is fiery torment in both, but eventually Hades will be eliminated and the Lake of Fire will be eternal. That's why Death and Hades (personified) will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[AGustOfWind]

i apologize for being so blunt . but lets just throw our bibles in the trash can sing kum bayah my lord

Excuse me? What?...

 

[JLB]

Alas, how would you know this?

By reading the Bible.

 

[Free]

While the two places are not identical (and should be distinguished) they are inextricably connected. There is fiery torment in both, but eventually Hades will be eliminated and the Lake of Fire will be eternal. That's why Death and Hades (personified) will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

As I have stated, the idea of fire and torment in Hades is conjecture based on one passage of Scripture that may or may not be giving literal detail about Hades. Remember, Hades simply means "grave".

 

[Free]

to settle this we just take a black marker and blot out the word hell the lake of fire along with the white throne judgement.sad

What do you mean and who are you addressing this to?

 

[turnorburn]

Regardless of whether you believe it or not, hell exists! The Bible says that hell is never full. I've heard many folks say that hell is just the grave (Sheol). Well, let's take a look at what the Bible says. Here are a few scriptures that teach about hell and the lake of fire. At the final judgment; hell, death and those not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake fire.

Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking to unbelievers at the great while throne of judgment), "...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelation 14:11, "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night."

Revelation 20:12, 15, "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Matthew 10:28, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Luke 12:5, "But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which AFTER he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

Matthew 18:8& 9, "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."

Matthew 25:46, "And these shall go away into EVERLASTING punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

II Thessalonians 1:9,
Who shall be punished with EVERLASTING destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.

Isaiah 66:24, "And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be abhorring unto all flesh."

Mark 9:44 (speaking of hell), "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." (Some believe this worm refers to the conscience. Unbelievers will have an eternity to regret their foolish decisions; whereas, Believers will someday have every tear wiped away by God Himself--Revelation 21:4).

Jude 7, "Sodom and Gomorrha...are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Matthew 22:13," ...Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-42, "The Son of man (Jesus) shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Revelation 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Psalm 9:17, "The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God."

Isaiah 14:11-15 (Satan's final doom), "Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee...all they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee...thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Daniel 12:2, "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING contempt."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/hellisreal.htm

Its literal alright..

 

[for_his_glory]

If death (physical and Spiritual) and hell, meaning grave/pit where those have who have physically died and lowered into the ground, is thrown into the lake of fire, Rev 20:14, then I would say it is both literal and symbolic in its meaning. Death has two forms. The first is when this physical body dies and is lowered in the grave. The second form is Spiritual death, which means total separation from God where death and hell being literal will be cast into that which is symbolic of a place of fire and everlasting torment as the lake of fire is the second death, Rev 20:14; 21:8.

The lake of fire is literal of being the second death as God is silent on any particular location, but described in the parables of Jesus as he calls it to be a place in outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth, and eternal punishment, Matthew 8:12; 22:13; 25:30, 46. The lake of fire means those who have rejected Christ will be destroyed forever as they will never be able to come against Gods people anymore.

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.
Greek # 5020. Tartaroo tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment:--cast down to hell.

Hades is the English of the Greek word ᾅδης, just as Gehenna is the English for the Greek word γέεννα and Tartaros is the English word for the Greek word ταρταρόω

 

[AGustOfWind]

By reading the Bible.

Which translation?
Don't say the NIV or King James.
Or even the ESV, NAS, or anything of the sort.
The most accurate translation (That doesn't ever include added references about fornication or hell) is the NRSV.
New King James is fairly accurate too.

 

[AGustOfWind]

By reading the Bible.

Which translation?
Don't say the NIV or King James.
Or even the ESV, NAS, or anything of the sort.
The most accurate translation (That doesn't ever include added references about fornication or hell) is the NRSV.
New King James is fairly accurate too.

 

[JLB]

Which translation?
Don't say the NIV or King James.
Or even the ESV, NAS, or anything of the sort.
The most accurate translation (That doesn't ever include added references about fornication or hell) is the NRSV.
New King James is fairly accurate too.

I'm sorry if I lost tract of the points we both were making, so here is a scripture that teaches me about a literal lake of fire and those who will be cast into it.


8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8


If this scripture does not address your point, then please restate it.


Thanks JLB

 

[Wrg1405]

Reading with interest all of the posts. Looking at the arguments for and against, some of which I agree with and some I don't. As some of you have done as well. I do have to ask though what does it matter? Is it literal or symbolic?

We will have to agree to disagree, because to me there is confusion in terms of the interpretations given by you all.

Hell and it's lake fire, hades, sheol, Gehenna, Abraham's bosom and their meanings have long been discussed and interpreted by many a great scholar from linguistics to hermanutics represented in many books, including the bible form the KJV, ESV, NIV, NLT and so on.

Are we missing the point though? What is the point you are all trying to make? Is it "I'm right your wrong"

When Jesus arrived he came with message "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, beleive in me and you will be with me for ever" please note I'm not advocating greasy grace here. The Gospel of grace is forgiveness to those who place their faith in Jesus. Jesus preached this gospel and is the gospel. He sought those who needed him but also those who felt they didn't need him. To those who needed him he accepted but to those who rejected him he warned that their would be a consequence of rejecting him.

He came proclaiming good news not bad news. I can't recall him saying "Get down on your knees and if you don't then see this hot poker here"

I'm not trying to be irreverent here but in effect he is saying "I'm your father, your creator, I love you so much and I want to spend eternity with you and to prove it I'm gonna take what it needs and that's me dying, now if you don't want it that's your choice so just as you know if your choice is to not want to spend eternity with me then I will respect your choice"

People who reject Jesus are not bothered about the consequences because the consequences are not real. God is not real and Jesus did not exist. I think it's exacerbated when we come with message of "Repent or burn" it's exonerated when we proclaim the Gospel of Jesus, the love of Jesus.

So to me I would say to those I talk to that Jesus is the Son of God, he died for you to restore the relationship with your creator because he loves you so much, so you can choose to accept him. If you don't then one day you will stand before him and he will respect your wish. You will not be with him for eternity.

Love conquers all, fear enslaves all.

 

[ezrider]

to settle this we just take a black marker and blot out the word hell the lake of fire along with the white throne judgement.sad

i apologize for being so blunt . but lets just throw our bibles in the trash can sing kum bayah my lord

You asked in your OP if the lake of fire was real or literal, and then you specifically asked for scripture references. But the scriptures I gave you, either you gave them no thought, or maybe you didn't even read them at all. Maybe it is because the carnal mind can not understand that which is spiritual, and they just don't see it. But now because there is no understanding you would blot out the words to avoid controversy or dispute? Or you would just throw your Bible in the trash?

You know, that might not be a bad idea. If you throw your Bible in the trash, then you will not be led of your own will to understand the Word of God, but instead be forced to wait upon the Spirit of the Lord to instruct you according to His will.

But before you throw your Bible in the trash, remember one thing: The Lord thy God is a Consuming Fire (Deut 4:24).

 

[ezra]

You asked in your OP if the lake of fire was real or literal, and then you specifically asked for scripture references. But the scriptures I gave you, either you gave them no thought, or maybe you didn't even read them at all. Maybe it is because the carnal mind can not understand that which is spiritual, and they just don't see it. But now because there is no understanding you would blot out the words to avoid controversy or dispute? Or you would just throw your Bible in the trash?

You know, that might not be a bad idea. If you throw your Bible in the trash, then you will not be led of your own will to understand the Word of God, but instead be forced to wait upon the Spirit of the Lord to instruct you according to His will.

But before you throw your Bible in the trash, remember one thing: The Lord thy God is a Consuming Fire (Deut 4:24).

well MR EZRIDER not sure what boat you jumped on .i am well aware of what i asked . let me explain it like this in reference to { either you gave them no thought, or maybe you didn't even read them at all. Maybe it is because the carnal mind can not understand that which is spiritual, and they just don't see it. But now because there is no understanding you would blot out the words to avoid controversy or dispute? Or you would just throw your Bible in the trash?} my reply your not my holy spirit !!!!! when a person rejects the lake of fire in revelations .then let us also reject the judgement seat of Christ and let us also reject as real the description of heaven . so feel free to pack your bags and get back on your boat. up until know it was adult replies thank you