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Latest Observations

Rollo Tamasi said:
My latest observations from the world of Tamasiism;

1. Not all Christians are at the same place in their walk with Christ.

2. It is very hard for all of us to stop ourselves from judging others.

3. Being able to just sit and observe all that goes on around us is almost impossible.

4. Tamaiism has not advanced as quickly as I first thought it would due to the advancement of Jethroism.

5. Any comments?
Click to expand...
I have a question about #2.

I am wondering if anyone would like to take the last few verses of Romans 1 and the first few vers esof Romans 2 and explain what you believe.

My mind does not seem to get what others get (and what else would anyone expect). I think tradition has so messed up judgement, that few have much knowledge about the subject.

I also believe understanding #2. Is key to any understanding of #s: 1,3,4,and even 5.

Surprise me. Of course I will bore you with my thoughts shortly.

eddif
 
Hi Eddif, I'll share a little bit since I started this.
I don't like talking about myself much but these are personal observations.

No. 2, judging, is obvious in the Romans passages you mentioned.
I think anytime you meet with a group of people, and then get closer to these people there will be judgment.

A woman at my church who is the head of a ministry made a comment one day that shocked me.
The perfect picture I had of her went out the window.
Judgment.
I had to learn from it.
It's a continual thing.

I sit with Elders, and Deacons and Teachers of our church to make decisions on how we can help people.
We constantly make judgments, sometimes right, sometimes wrong.
We're human.
We have to live with our decisions and try to learn from them.

I think Paul is talking about an unrepentive heart, and this is what we face in our church as well.

The way we improve ourselves in regards to judging is to support each other to draw closer to Jesus.
If we earnestly seek him, our attitudes towards others change and our decision making improves.

No. 4 is a little bit of a joke but it does represent the cliques that form in a church.
Rather than go into that, it's a thread topic all it's own, It's something that happens even within families, I don't think it will change.
The best thing is to make the different groups work together some how.
 
eddif said:
I have a question about #2.

I am wondering if anyone would like to take the last few verses of Romans 1 and the first few vers esof Romans 2 and explain what you believe.

My mind does not seem to get what others get (and what else would anyone expect). I think tradition has so messed up judgement, that few have much knowledge about the subject.

I also believe understanding #2. Is key to any understanding of #s: 1,3,4,and even 5.

Surprise me. Of course I will bore you with my thoughts shortly.

eddif
Click to expand...

Hi Eddif,

My thoughts are many and it's practically a minor bible study in itself.

There are two kinds of judgement. Man's and God's. The end of Romans 1 is speaking of God's judgement. The title in my NIV says God's Wrath Against Mankind
So He gave them over to their depraved minds.. Sorry if I don't get the wording exactly, have limited time. Because they knew from the beginning of God's existence but cared not. So I worried about this when i first started reading the bible. What could it mean? God didn't care about them? No. It's as if He said. Okay, this is how you want it, this is how you can have it. So God will judge and He'll be a righteous judge. And if you sin under the Law, you will be judged under the Law. This means trouble. Since no man can keep the Law and since, by our own efforts we will not see salvation.

But then there is the judgement of man. Based not on truth, as God's is, but on our own way of seeing truth.
This reminds me of Mathew 7. Take the plank out of your own eye first and stop noticing the speck in your brother's eye. Meaning our sins might be even greater than our brother's, but it's far easier to see his than ours. It also puffs us up, doesn't it? We might think: Look at him - what a sinner! So easy to see the sins of others. We speak of the sin of pride being at the root of almost all sin. This is pride. That we could think of ourselves as being better than others.

Jesus said that as we judge so shall we be judged. We seem to be harsher than God is sometimes. But, it's really a human fault as Rollo Tamasi says. I don't know anyone who doesn't judge, including myself. How easy to judge that woman who does nothing but speak of others, or the person who gets upset easily. Problem is, as Romans so states, we end up doing the same things at times!

The end of Romans 1 also reminds me of the story of Noah. The flood. The end of depraved life. Sodom and Gomorrah, ditto. Things get so bad on earth that God just wants to end it all. Jesus requires a transformation, an inner change. There is more hope now, but satan exists still. The sins listed seem to be sins that affect all of creation in a sense maybe different than other sins that seem less evil. I've never really thought of this, but it does speak to the worst.

Please let us know your thoughts.

Wondering
 
I
wondering said:
Hi Eddif,

My thoughts are many and it's practically a minor bible study in itself.

There are two kinds of judgement. Man's and God's. The end of Romans 1 is speaking of God's judgement. The title in my NIV says God's Wrath Against Mankind
So He gave them over to their depraved minds.. Sorry if I don't get the wording exactly, have limited time. Because they knew from the beginning of God's existence but cared not. So I worried about this when i first started reading the bible. What could it mean? God didn't care about them? No. It's as if He said. Okay, this is how you want it, this is how you can have it. So God will judge and He'll be a righteous judge. And if you sin under the Law, you will be judged under the Law. This means trouble. Since no man can keep the Law and since, by our own efforts we will not see salvation.

But then there is the judgement of man. Based not on truth, as God's is, but on our own way of seeing truth.
This reminds me of Mathew 7. Take the plank out of your own eye first and stop noticing the speck in your brother's eye. Meaning our sins might be even greater than our brother's, but it's far easier to see his than ours. It also puffs us up, doesn't it? We might think: Look at him - what a sinner! So easy to see the sins of others. We speak of the sin of pride being at the root of almost all sin. This is pride. That we could think of ourselves as being better than others.

Jesus said that as we judge so shall we be judged. We seem to be harsher than God is sometimes. But, it's really a human fault as Rollo Tamasi says. I don't know anyone who doesn't judge, including myself. How easy to judge that woman who does nothing but speak of others, or the person who gets upset easily. Problem is, as Romans so states, we end up doing the same things at times!

The end of Romans 1 also reminds me of the story of Noah. The flood. The end of depraved life. Sodom and Gomorrah, ditto. Things get so bad on earth that God just wants to end it all. Jesus requires a transformation, an inner change. There is more hope now, but satan exists still. The sins listed seem to be sins that affect all of creation in a sense maybe different than other sins that seem less evil. I've never really thought of this, but it does speak to the worst.

Please let us know your thoughts.

Wondering
Click to expand...
You have a rather good grasp of what is going on. You are going to be apppreciated around here. I will allow more comments from you and others to speak before I begin.

If ya'll think I am setting a trap I will just begin. I am really wondering what I will hear.

eddif
 
eddif said:
I

You have a rather good grasp of what is going on. You are going to be apppreciated around here. I will allow more comments from you and others to speak before I begin.

If ya'll think I am setting a trap I will just begin. I am really wondering what I will hear.

eddif
Click to expand...

The gods are surrounding you awaiting your first utterance.
 
I really think I posted some of this earlier, but I always try to look at each situation. This thread is set up for the discussion of judgement.

Number 1 question is influenced by number two
If
People sometimes fear judgement as they have been told we can not judge, and as a result they cease to think / judge. If you are not involved in judgement, then growth is sure going to be slow.

I think wondering is on track. I will just be branching out and adding to, in regards to some of her comments. She said there was limited time right when she posted.

God is the ultimate judge: past, present and future.
God's judgement is seen from heaven:
1 removed Adam and Eve from garden
2 punished Catn
3 sent the flood
4 confounded languages
5 destroyed Sodom
6 sent Israel into captivity to help
7 etc.

If we just agree with God we are not judging of ourselves, but agree with God.

If we disagree with God ( judge using man's judgements) we begin to understand wondering's post. Man reverses God's judgement and does what God has judged to be sin and supports / encourages others to do the same things. While full well knowing What God wants. Which may be the unrepentive heart (at least no fear of what God might punish them for).

This man (or any man) has become a judge against God and all who agree with God, when he practices and supports the opposite of Gods wrath from heaven. This is the man that should not judge. It is not that we sit by and fear to agree with God, but that we should not make up our own rules. If we make up the rules to allow sin then we will be judged with our very judgement.

I am not saying to not allow grace (Blake made that clear). It is also what Jesus did on the cross that saves, and not our works (especially works of the Law).

I hope to have said judgements are necessary, but only in agreement with heaven.

Might know I hardly have time to read over this post. I may have missed someone's post or not given credit.

eddif
 
reba said:
wow rollo you sound alot like the TOS... Praise the Lord we have a convert..:woot2

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
Click to expand...


I like this.

Rollo TOS Tamasi at your service madam.
 
eddif said:
I have a question about #2.

I am wondering if anyone would like to take the last few verses of Romans 1 and the first few verses of Romans 2 and explain what you believe.
Click to expand...
This is what I think. Romans 1 means that in times past and even now, some people don't esteem God as the source of wisdom and righteousness in His creation, even though they know these are attributes in the creation, that could only come by the Creator. Instead, people vainly imagine that we all choose to be good or evil of our own voluntary choice, and this changes the glory of God into an image that is like unto man and other created beings. So God gave men over to the lusts of their flesh to become abominations. Hence at the end of Romans 1, people do and even approve of things, they know God wouldn't approve of. And therefore in the beginning of Romans 2, to judge anyone for being sinful, as if they could help being made of flesh, is only to condemn yourself.
 
wondering said:
Hello Dianegcook,

My latest observation is that you must be a very creative person. Something I'm sorely lacking.
Too bad your spray wasn't around about 50 years ago when I REALLY had pimples!!

Wondering
Click to expand...
Nothing to creating a photo bucket account, lol.
Pimples? Lol
I really didn't have much problems with that, except once a month:blush, lol

Welcome to the board
View attachment 8075
 
eddif said:
I really think I posted some of this earlier, but I always try to look at each situation. This thread is set up for the discussion of judgement.

Number 1 question is influenced by number two
If
People sometimes fear judgement as they have been told we can not judge, and as a result they cease to think / judge. If you are not involved in judgement, then growth is sure going to be slow.

I think wondering is on track. I will just be branching out and adding to, in regards to some of her comments. She said there was limited time right when she posted.

God is the ultimate judge: past, present and future.
God's judgement is seen from heaven:
1 removed Adam and Eve from garden
2 punished Catn
3 sent the flood
4 confounded languages
5 destroyed Sodom
6 sent Israel into captivity to help
7 etc.

If we just agree with God we are not judging of ourselves, but agree with God.

If we disagree with God ( judge using man's judgements) we begin to understand wondering's post. Man reverses God's judgement and does what God has judged to be sin and supports / encourages others to do the same things. While full well knowing What God wants. Which may be the unrepentive heart (at least no fear of what God might punish them for).

This man (or any man) has become a judge against God and all who agree with God, when he practices and supports the opposite of Gods wrath from heaven. This is the man that should not judge. It is not that we sit by and fear to agree with God, but that we should not make up our own rules. If we make up the rules to allow sin then we will be judged with our very judgement.

I am not saying to not allow grace (Blake made that clear). It is also what Jesus did on the cross that saves, and not our works (especially works of the Law).

I hope to have said judgements are necessary, but only in agreement with heaven.

Might know I hardly have time to read over this post. I may have missed someone's post or not given credit.

eddif
Click to expand...
Childeye said something that made me think of this:

I agree that it's okay to judge (in God's manner or things) but not to condemn. What do I mean by God's things?
You know, like it's not nice to say. Look at those old shoes he's wearing. For more reasons than one: Be nice to everyone, you never know what they're going through - would be one of them.

However, it would be okay to say that someone stealing is doing something wrong and it's okay to judge them in the sense that they're breaking a law of God. Sometimes we're so afraid to judge that we'll just let anything go by.
The bible doesn't tell us not to judge. In fact, it tells us to judge and to reprimand in a gentle way. As in Luke 17:3. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him. To know if someone is sinning, you have to be able to judge. We're so afraid to judge nowadays that we're willing to let everything just pass by. People will often say not to be judgmental. Well, why not? Am I not to be able to judge if my son wants to hang out with bad company? If I know the friend is bad company, then I'm judging!

But here we tread dangerous waters. Some people are so judgmental, they've taken it upon themselves to change the world and thus turn many off to God. So wisdom come in here somewhere.

It's the fear of judging I'm addressing here. I think righteous judgment, tempered with humility is just fine. As long as we realize that we're sinners too and are just trying to eliminate sin from effecting our lives or maybe even keeping it from proliferating any more since accepting it and NOT judging does cause proliferation.

I like what you say here:
I hope to have said judgements are necessary, but only in agreement with heaven.
and
If we just agree with God we are not judging of ourselves, but agree with God.

Oh. And grace must reign supreme in our hearts. Or we fall under the Law.

Wondering
 
childeye said:
So God gave men over to the lusts of their flesh to become abominations. Hence at the end of Romans 1, people do and even approve of things, they know God wouldn't approve of. And therefore in the beginning of Romans 2, to judge anyone for being sinful, as if they could help being made of flesh, is only to condemn yourself.
Click to expand...
I want to try a bit be careful here. It is very easy to jump to a conclusion based on your area of gifting and miss what someone else is saying.

I think I will restate the way I would say the thoughts.
Men became abominations and God turned them over to their condition. (Consumed with their condition to practice the list of things)

People see God reveal his wrath against sin and still choose to be overtaken by those sins; to the extent they ...
Romans 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

We are to see the condition of our flesh as wretched, and not glory in our fallen state.

We confess the state of our flesh and realize that at the end of time that will be changed. We realize the new birth in our mind is seated together with Christ in heaven.
Romans 7:25

I still see through a glass darkly, but am not blind.

eddif
 
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