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FOR JETHRO AND ROLLO

Must I choose between the red pill and the blue pill?
It's so nice to be neutral.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Hi dianegcook,

I'm dense and wish we could be more clear on things.
Which would be the fleshy things?
God cares more about what comes out of the mouth than what goes in.
I agree.
But what are you saying exactly?

If this is referring to judging, are you saying I shouldn't??
Or that I have to be perfect before I can??

That's a long way off!!

Wondering
Click to expand...
Exactly, we are not perfect.
So why try to clear the beam out of one's eye, while you have a mote in yours, thingy.
Where does it stop?
Do you eat pork?
I can judge you on this?
When God says, to keep your body holy, ( which is your temple) is mainly talking about, staying clear of false doctrines, idols and such.
Flesh is sinful.
I really don't think if one Smokes, it will keep you out of heaven.
That is what I am saying.
 
dianegcook said:
I really don't think if one Smokes, it will keep you out of heaven.
Click to expand...
I agree. The REASON you smoke, depending on what that is, can.
Just as the REASON you eat, or don't eat, pork, depending on what that reason is, may keep you out of the kingdom.

wondering said:
It's so nice to be neutral.
Click to expand...
But it's so boring.
So get on the Trump/Jethro ticket and let's make America and the Church great again!
 
dianegcook said:
Exactly, we are not perfect.
So why try to clear the beam out of one's eye, while you have a mote in yours, thingy.
Where does it stop?
Do you eat pork?
I can judge you on this?
When God says, to keep your body holy, ( which is your temple) is mainly talking about, staying clear of false doctrines, idols and such.
Flesh is sinful.
I really don't think if one Smokes, it will keep you out of heaven.
That is what I am saying.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Yes. If I were living under the Law, you could judge me on eating pork. I think we're under the New Covenant now so you won't be able to.

I spoke to the beam in the eye in my first reply way back when. Also, Rollo and I got to talking about smoking, but smoking isn't the subject matter. If you read my posts no. 75 and 76 my position will be made clear.

Jesus used analogy a lot. So we could say that keeping the body holy could mean false doctrine, idols and the such. But these matters were addressed specifically, so we could assume that keeping the body holy probably meant just that. In a fleshy kind of way.

God doesn't care only about spiritual matters. He cares about us too, in a real, flesh way. When Abraham and his descendants were roaming around in the desert they made a tent to God. The tabernacle was the temple.
There are no more tabernacles. The tabernacle was a temporary place for God. Then the temple was built - and eventually destroyed.

But the bible does speak to our body being the temple of God. Sacrifices were offered in the temple.
The N.T. tell us to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice to God, Romans 12:1.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 both speak clearly to the fact that our body is a temple.
Ephesians 3:17 even says that Christ dwells there - in the heart. As He once dwelt in the tabernacle and as once sacrifices were made in the tabernacle and the Temple.

I think maybe being judgmental is getting mixed with the above. Being judgmental is a worldly passtime and not conducive to any good; judging, OTOH, is normal and not bad.

Let's say you're an employee and you get a new supervisor. Within two minutes you're judging that supervisor. it can't be helped. However, that's being judgmental and you may end up being wrong!

All this that I'm saying has nothing to do with smoking keeping you out of heaven. (unless smoking is a sin to YOU) That would be making light of the above.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Hi Childeye,

I agree with all you say. Except the proliferation part.

But first, let me say that, yes, you do bring judging to forgiving as show in your pp no. 6. You've judged that a sin has occurred, but now you're wondering about forgiving and are choosing the voice in you that says to forgive.

I think semantics are playing a part here. Maybe the judging I'm talking about is different from the judging your talking about. Here's why. And now we get to the proliferation problem.

I don't know how old you are, but I've lived through many changes in the last decades. So let's take an example.
Many years ago dating was a serious thing. You didn't date different men and then got married one day. You kind of dated one or two and then settled down into marriage.

Here we are today. 50% divorce rate. Marriage is no longer respected as it once was. Many couples are either living together or they live together for a while before getting married to test the waters and make sure they're compatible.

So what has caused this drastic change?

It was unthinkable for a couple to live together back in my day - the dark ages. Only Hollywood types did this and they were very much criticized for it too!

The cause has been acceptance.

Ever so slowly norms became more liberal. Little things here and there were accepted by society as a whole. This took a long time to develope - but develope it did. Did human nature change? No. Human nature remains the same and is a constant. It's our acceptance of practices that has changed. When I was 14 I might have liked some guy and would have liked to be with him. But it was not acceptable. Today it is. So you see 14 year olds going around and acting as if they were 18 or more - but they still have the brain of a 14 year old. Then they grow up and couples decide to live together. It's okay to do now.

You see? Acceptance of sin makes that sin proliferate.

Wondering
Click to expand...
I first want to say that I appreciate the acknowledgment that there exists semantic confusion in language. When you say "acceptance", I am trying to understand your meaning of the word, so that I can answer to the sentiment in how you are applying it. I take you to mean that detrimental changes happen in society, wherein what were before rare and disapproved of events, have become more and more the norm and commonplace in occurrence. Notice that I used the phrase "disapproved of" instead of "not accepted". That is how I perceive your meaning of the word "acceptance", as "approving of". Consequently, you are saying that approving of sin causes sin to proliferate. But of course, I therefore must conclude that if we all disapproved of what we perceive to be sinful actions, they would cease to become commonplace.

Sin is proliferating, and I think we can agree upon this, even though we would have to define sin for me to be certain what we mean when we say that. I simply believe that sin will not stop proliferating, no matter how much we all disapprove of it. Shall I go on with my thoughts on this? I will only touch on them.

I would point out that according to scripture, what may be sin to one person, is not sin to another. This means that "accepting" is not always the wrong thing.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
I would point out that even though we would disapprove of divorce, divorce isn't actually happening, adultery is.
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

I would point out that, to prosecute marijuana use, then exacts fines and penalties including sending people to jail. This is then tantamount to robbery or kidnapping someone, because they get high on pot rather than high on alcohol which is legally acceptable. Is this not hypocrisy and unrighteous judgment? I voted for legalization in Colorado because I am against robbery and kidnapping.

I am a child of divorce. One night, I had a dream where I relived a repressed memory from my youth. My father and Mother were arguing. He had been gone for days on a drinking binge with his buddies, which had happened before several times. My Mother had all she could take, and she said to my Father, "get out and don't come back, no one wants you here. We all wish you would leave so we could be happy". I saw the look on my Dad's face, and that he was believing her. I was only five years old, so I grabbed his leg with my arms and and wrapped my legs around as tight as I could, while screaming and crying,"Don't go Dad, Don't go!!" But he just peeled me off of his leg and walked out the door and out of our lives.

I never celebrated any holiday or any birthday again, and I resented that my older brother didn't seem to care that our Dad was not there. I wondered if my Mother even cared how I felt. How could she say we all wanted my Father to leave? How could she presume to speak for me?

So after reliving this repressed memory, and feeling that darkness in my heart refreshed anew in all of it's blackness, I prayed to God about it. So He took me in a vision, to some place where my Mother was standing. And God began to show her what she had done, despite what she had thought was doing the right thing in her "judgment" of my Father.

And when she saw and understood my pain, she collapsed to her hands and knees and began to weep uncontrollably. And when I saw her anguish, I begged God to stop. I never hated my Mother again for I knew then, that she Loved me. And I said to God that I never wanted her to know how much she had hurt me. And a black thing came out of my mouth and I was cured of the blackness in my heart.

So I don't approve of divorce, but I do have to accept that sin happens. God can fix it, and we can learn from it.
 
Last edited:
childeye said:
I first want to say that I appreciate the acknowledgment that there exists semantic confusion in language. When you say "acceptance", I am trying to understand your meaning of the word, so that I can answer to the sentiment in how you are applying it. I take you to mean that detrimental changes happen in society, wherein what were before rare and disapproved of events, have become more and more the norm and commonplace in occurrence. Notice that I used the phrase "disapproved of" instead of "not accepted". That is how I perceive your meaning of the word "acceptance", as "approving of". Consequently, you are saying that approving of sin causes sin to proliferate. But of course, I therefore must conclude that if we all disapproved of what we perceive to be sinful actions, they would cease to become commonplace.

Sin is proliferating, and I think we can agree upon this, even though we would have to define sin for me to be certain what we mean when we say that. I simply believe that sin will not stop proliferating, no matter how much we all disapprove of it. Shall I go on with my thoughts on this? I will only touch on them.

I would point out that according to scripture, what may be sin to one person, is not sin to another. This means that "accepting" is not always the wrong thing.
2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
I would point out that even though we would disapprove of divorce, divorce isn't actually happening, adultery is.
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

I would point out that, to prosecute marijuana use, then exacts fines and penalties including sending people to jail. This is then tantamount to robbery or kidnapping someone, because they get high on pot rather than high on alcohol which is legally acceptable. Is this not hypocrisy and unrighteous judgment? I voted for legalization in Colorado because I am against robbery and kidnapping.

I am a child of divorce. One night, I had a dream where I relived a repressed memory from my youth. My father and Mother were arguing. He had been gone for days on a drinking binge with his buddies, which had happened before several times. My Mother had all she could take, and she said to my Father, "get out and don't come back, no one wants you here. We all wish you would leave so we could be happy". I saw the look on my Dad's face, and that he was believing her. I was only five years old, so I grabbed his leg with my arms and and wrapped my legs around as tight as I could, while screaming and crying,"Don't go Dad, Don't go!!" But he just peeled me off of his leg and walked out the door and out of our lives.

I never celebrated any holiday or any birthday again, and I resented that my older brother didn't seem to care that our Dad was not there. I wondered if my Mother even cared how I felt. How could she say we all wanted my Father to leave? How could she presume to speak for me?

So after reliving this repressed memory, and feeling that darkness in my heart refreshed anew in all of it's blackness, I prayed to God about it. So He took me in a vision, to some place where my Mother was standing. And God began to show her what she had done, despite what she had thought was doing the right thing in her "judgment" of my Father.

And when she saw and understood my pain, she collapsed to her hands and knees and began to weep uncontrollably. And when I saw her anguish, I begged God to stop. I never hated my Mother again for I knew then, that she Loved me. And I said to God that I never wanted her to know how much she had hurt me. And a black thing came out of my mouth and I was cured of the blackness in my heart.

So I don't approve of divorce, but I do have to accept that sin happens. God can fix it, and we can learn from it.
Click to expand...
Hello Childeye,

Yes indeed. All we have is words. Thank you for being so understanding
You're right, when I say accept I mean approve of. When you accept something, you approve of it. In Italy, where I live, we say "accept" - sometimes this language thing will get in my way.

If you notice in my very last sentence to dianegcook I do mention that something (smoking in this case) could be a sin to a person but not to another.

I understand very well all you say about your childhood. Every parent alive has made mistakes, and most certainly not to hurt their child. We're all human.

It's very heartening to hear that you've been able to get this black spot out of your heart. You're very lucky to know God and He is able and willing to help us when we allow Him.

May God bless you always,
W
 
wondering said:
Hello Childeye,

Yes indeed. All we have is words. Thank you for being so understanding
You're right, when I say accept I mean approve of. When you accept something, you approve of it. In Italy, where I live, we say "accept" - sometimes this language thing will get in my way.

If you notice in my very last sentence to dianegcook I do mention that something (smoking in this case) could be a sin to a person but not to another.

I understand very well all you say about your childhood. Every parent alive has made mistakes, and most certainly not to hurt their child. We're all human.

It's very heartening to hear that you've been able to get this black spot out of your heart. You're very lucky to know God and He is able and willing to help us when we allow Him.

May God bless you always,
W
Click to expand...
I received your personal message. I know that the topic is heart wrenching and I greatly appreciate your sincerity and understanding in reaching out to me. In Christ, I kiss your hand.
 
wondering said:
Hello Childeye,

Yes indeed. All we have is words. Thank you for being so understanding
You're right, when I say accept I mean approve of. When you accept something, you approve of it. In Italy, where I live, we say "accept" - sometimes this language thing will get in my way.

If you notice in my very last sentence to dianegcook I do mention that something (smoking in this case) could be a sin to a person but not to another.

I understand very well all you say about your childhood. Every parent alive has made mistakes, and most certainly not to hurt their child. We're all human.

It's very heartening to hear that you've been able to get this black spot out of your heart. You're very lucky to know God and He is able and willing to help us when we allow Him.

May God bless you always,
W
Click to expand...
Wondering, you live in Italy?
Whereabouts?
Maybe we're related.
 
Ephesians 2:11 KJV
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, eventhe law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I read just a smarterig of the Jew Gentile issue going on. The wall is broken down. The rubble is left to trip over or try to build a weak wall out of rubble (complete with whitewash). May the hailstones demolish any wall and peace in the hidden man of the heart be there for forgiveness and peace in each individual.

eddif
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
Wondering, you live in Italy?
Whereabouts?
Maybe we're related.
Click to expand...
Rollo!

Wait. Are you the red pill or the blue pill??
I have a feeling you're the blue one.
But, hey, you're here. How bad could you be??

I live in sunny Tuscany.
But it's not as bright as one might think.

Wondering
 
wondering said:
Rollo!

Wait. Are you the red pill or the blue pill??
I have a feeling you're the blue one.
But, hey, you're here. How bad could you be??

I live in sunny Tuscany.
But it's not as bright as one might think.

Wondering
Click to expand...

Oh, that's terrible.
Just kidding.
My whole family is from Campania although they are spread out across the country today.
Home town village, Capriglia, just north of Avelino.
We are all Napolitans.

campania.jpg
 
wondering said:
Rollo!

Wait. Are you the red pill or the blue pill??
I have a feeling you're the blue one.
But, hey, you're here. How bad could you be??

I live in sunny Tuscany.
But it's not as bright as one might think.

Wondering
Click to expand...
I bet you can cook good!
Beautiful country.
My Mom was born in the south of France.
She had to go thru WW2
She stayed with the nuns, her Mom worked in the convent.
Heard planes coming, then go hide in the woods.
She told me that a bomb fragment landed in her bed while she was sleeping.
Thank you ,all Vets, for being there, and those serving now.
 
My latest observations are that Tamasiism is over taking Jethroism while that blonde haired woman way over there to the left has fallen far behind.
 
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