Life after God?

[Christ_empowered]

I was just reading about post-Christian France. And Britain. And...basically much of affluent, post-industrial Europe. They're doing ok.

What does it mean, when entire societies move beyond God? What guides their behavior, individually and collectively? Any Europeans out there who can fill me on in on where the majority of your values come from? I don't mean that as a criticism. I mean, honestly: is it from the latest philosophy, social sciences, some sort of Euro-style secular philosophy that guides the whole EU?

I ask because so far, it doesn't seem so terrible. Crime rates are lower than in the US, imprisonment rates are FAR lower than in the US, poverty is well-controlled, lifespan is good, and they've even made allowances for some segments of the population to be chronically un- or under-employed w/o living in abject poverty.

I was a social sciences major in college. One of my parents is in the social sciences. I must say....from a sociological perspective, much of the EU is doing well. But I see only basic stats.

Could it be that, instead of having a "Christ shaped hole" in our hearts, many of us are perfectly content to live w/o God as long as we have enough stuff and some sort of (presumably secular) morality to guide us through the rough patches? That's one reason I lean towards predestination.

 

[Knotical]

I was just reading about post-Christian France. And Britain. And...basically much of affluent, post-industrial Europe. They're doing ok.

What does it mean, when entire societies move beyond God? What guides their behavior, individually and collectively? Any Europeans out there who can fill me on in on where the majority of your values come from? I don't mean that as a criticism. I mean, honestly: is it from the latest philosophy, social sciences, some sort of Euro-style secular philosophy that guides the whole EU?

I ask because so far, it doesn't seem so terrible. Crime rates are lower than in the US, imprisonment rates are FAR lower than in the US, poverty is well-controlled, lifespan is good, and they've even made allowances for some segments of the population to be chronically un- or under-employed w/o living in abject poverty.

I was a social sciences major in college. One of my parents is in the social sciences. I must say....from a sociological perspective, much of the EU is doing well. But I see only basic stats.

Could it be that, instead of having a "Christ shaped hole" in our hearts, many of us are perfectly content to live w/o God as long as we have enough stuff and some sort of (presumably secular) morality to guide us through the rough patches? That's one reason I lean towards predestination.

What are you considering "OK?" Last I heard the majority of Europe is going through as bad, if not worse, an economy as we are. Even Germany, the financial powerhouse of Europe, is having some issues. In addition, these countries are being over-run with muslims, who are out-breeding anyone else.

Remove God from the country, you will see it continue to different flavors of decline until the inevitable.

 

[Christ_empowered]

The whole world's economic system is kind of...questionable. I don't keep up on economic news, but it looks as if upward mobility is still higher in much of Europe than in the US and the social programs are helping keep everything copasetic (passe word, I know, but I love it).

I guess it speaks to a larger question. If humans are capable of reasonable degrees of morality--note, I didn't say righteousness--without a God of any sort, then what does that say for the future of Christianity? In some countries, old school, Bible-based Christianity is gaining in popularity. I'm wondering, though, if maybe its a cycle. A society adopts Christian values. Christian morality (hard work, sexual restraint, thrift, looking out for the overall good) leads to greater prosperity. Greater prosperity leads to more education. Education (particularly higher education) leads many away from God, and they then fail to raise their children in the faith (or any faith, I imagine...), and we have generations with nothing more than an old heirloom Bible connecting them to Christianity.

In the US, I wonder if maybe our greater rates of income inequality, harsh punishment for crimes, and fragmented communities might help keep us from going secular. Unfortunately, I think our culture has created a very self-focused salvation. Anyway, I guess what I'm really wondering is...if we take steps similar to those in Europe and Canada, will we also get rid of God? Or at least, the Judeo-Christian God? Could "Christian," or at least, some branches (I was thinking Catholic in particular), become more of a cultural identity than a statement of faith? Has this happened already?

Just thinking out loud, that's all.

 

[Knotical]

The whole world's economic system is kind of...questionable. I don't keep up on economic news, but it looks as if upward mobility is still higher in much of Europe than in the US and the social programs are helping keep everything copasetic (passe word, I know, but I love it).

I guess it speaks to a larger question. If humans are capable of reasonable degrees of morality--note, I didn't say righteousness--without a God of any sort, then what does that say for the future of Christianity? In some countries, old school, Bible-based Christianity is gaining in popularity. I'm wondering, though, if maybe its a cycle. A society adopts Christian values. Christian morality (hard work, sexual restraint, thrift, looking out for the overall good) leads to greater prosperity. Greater prosperity leads to more education. Education (particularly higher education) leads many away from God, and they then fail to raise their children in the faith (or any faith, I imagine...), and we have generations with nothing more than an old heirloom Bible connecting them to Christianity.

In the US, I wonder if maybe our greater rates of income inequality, harsh punishment for crimes, and fragmented communities might help keep us from going secular. Unfortunately, I think our culture has created a very self-focused salvation. Anyway, I guess what I'm really wondering is...if we take steps similar to those in Europe and Canada, will we also get rid of God? Or at least, the Judeo-Christian God? Could "Christian," or at least, some branches (I was thinking Catholic in particular), become more of a cultural identity than a statement of faith? Has this happened already?

Just thinking out loud, that's all.

You are on the right track concerning understanding cycles, though more specifically it follows this cycle: Countries follow biblical values and morals, prosperity ensues, they suddenly get the impression it is their own hard work that caused the prosperity, they turn away from God, then no more prosperity.

Really, even if they don't want to believe in Christ and Salvation, politicians should really still look at the patterns displayed over and over again in the OT to see where we are headed.

Of course that would mean our politicians are prone to learn from their mistakes and study history in order not to repeat it.

 

[Hammer]

I was just reading about post-Christian France. And Britain. And...basically much of affluent, post-industrial Europe. They're doing ok.

They're not doing okay. They're dying. Their native populations are shrinking and they're being replaced by immigrants.

They're not doing okay. Their societies are increasingly oppressive and miserable.

They're not doing okay. Most of them are in economic turmoil. They're drowning in debt and unemployment.

I ask because so far, it doesn't seem so terrible. Crime rates are lower than in the US, imprisonment rates are FAR lower than in the US, poverty is well-controlled, lifespan is good, and they've even made allowances for some segments of the population to be chronically un- or under-employed w/o living in abject poverty.

The crime rate is relatively low in western Europe for several reasons, none of which is good. Most crime is committed by young people, but Europeans are failing to have children. Europe has become a police state, where authorities monitor almost everything you do, or say. And, America has a certain racial demographic culturally committed to crime, an issue Europe doesn't have.