Limits to what the Blood Cleanses

[Deborah13]

Yes...“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one,

 

[Edward]

What does it mean to be sanctified?
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To be made Holy. We can not be "in Christ" without being Holy because He is Holy. He justifies us and sanctifies us, it's not something that we can do in the flesh.

 

[Gary]

Because it is written, You will be holy; for I am holy. 1 Peter 1:16 NKJV
God was not telling us to be holy. He was saying we are holy because He is holy. God spoke these words in existence over Christians.

Actually He is.

1 Peter 1....(NKJV)
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

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[iLOVE]

Actually He is.

1 Peter 1....(NKJV)
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

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The more fruit you produce the better your conduct will be. And how do you produce fruit? By sowing the word of God into you. However you are the righteousness of God by faith in Christ Jesus and holy even though you miss the mark.
The Fear Of God = take God seriously.
Revelation knowledge doesn't get revealed at the same time to all Christians.

 

[Deborah13]

Ok brother. There's a difference between willful sin and uh, ignorant sin. If one has never received Christ and asked forgiveness for their sins, and they are, say...living with their girlfriend and are unmarried. Even if they are being loyal to her and honor the compact of fidelity, they're still sinning, but may not realize (through ignorance) that it is in fact a sin unto God. Once they receive the Lord into their heart and are forgiven and born again (they have a bigger responsibility to obey the Lord). The Lords love covers a multitude of sin, this is true, but as one progresses in their walk (and should be studying and learning/growing), they should be cleaning their life up. At some point, they will learn that they are to be married or it is sin, and if they choose to not get married still...then they've fallen into willful sin and are in effect choosing to put their trust into themselves rather than the Christ. The Lords grace and love is mighty leinient , but at some point...the Lord will consider them mature enough to obey His commandments...and he will have this sin counted against him. We are to obey the Lords laws, precepts and commandments even moreso than mans laws.

Man is steeped in sin from birth pretty much. If we say we have no sin, even after being born again, we are liars. It's important to claim the blood of Jesus upon our life everyday. To recognize our sin and to repent of it and ask forgiveness. If we do this, it is as if we have no sin. We are walking in Christ and growing. But there's no loopholes, God will not be mocked. We can't think to ourselves, ok I'll go party this weekend and have fun and get with a girl and ask forgiveness Sunday morning in church. That's like playing russian roulette and willful sin.

That's why scripture says it better for a man to have never known the Lord, than to learn righteousness and then turn back to his old ways (2 Peter 2:21)

Nope that is not what I was saying.
King David was a very mature saved man and not weak in faith in God when he sinned and committed both adultery and murder.

Sanctification? Can one be sanctified and not saved? Yes

 

[Gary]

The more fruit you produce the better your conduct will be. And how do you produce fruit? By sowing the word of God into you. However you are the righteousness of God by faith in Christ Jesus and holy even though you miss the mark.
Fear = take God seriously.

Follow your convictions.
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[Gary]

Nope that is not what I was saying.
King David was a very mature saved man and not weak in faith in God when he sinned and committed both adultery and murder.

So what was the point of your post?
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[Deborah13]

So what was the point of your post?
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Now I'm confused. :shades
What do you mean by what was the point?

 

[iLOVE]

Follow your convictions.
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I do...and because I do many things I knew not are revealed because I have hidden His word in my heart.

 

[Gary]

I do...and many things I knew not are revealed because I have hidden His word in my heart.

That's good.

 

[Gary]

Now I'm confused. :shades
What do you mean by what was the point?

I said this.

Hebrews 10....(NKJV)
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

You responded with this.

What is willful sin? According to Strong's this is the definition of that Greek word which the author wrote.
Only through this definition did I understand why King David could be forgiven for adultery and murdering an innocent man. His sin was from weakness in the flesh. Therefore, it was not the willful type of sin that this scripture is talking about. The scriptures tell us that God knew David's heart and that David loved God but he stumbled in his flesh. His sin was not directed at God or caused by unbelief in God as His Redeemer. He did repent and ask God not to take the Holy Spirit from him. We can be sure that his sin did not fall into this category of having "no more sacrifice for sin."
That says to me that God's grace and mercy is much bigger than we often give Him credit for.
Most of us would say that a man could not be one of God's children and do these things. I really believe that some of us take way too much credit for our own good behavior and therefore our status as to salvation.
G1596

1. voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord
   1. to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately, and from ignorance or from weakness

I don't understand how your response ties in to the verse I posted.

Forgive my ignorance.
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[Gary]

That is the question that I have, too?
We know that someone can be sancitified because of the relationship/position to another person. However, that does not mean they are justified, saved.
ie. The believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse.

We know this book was written specifically to people who had been or were still, in Judaism. Is it possible that because they were a part of the nation of Israel that they were considered to be sanctified but not justified?

I see "sanctified" in that passage from Hebrews as meaning "saved".

Here's why.

The parts I have in bold seem to indicate salvation. For instance, one can't go back to something unless they first left it. In order to return to perdition, one would have to leave it first. I don't believe there's a middle ground where someone is partly saved. You either are or you're not. Do you understand what I'm getting at here?



Hebrews 10....(NKJV)
32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings:
33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated;
34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
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[Deborah13]

I said this.

You responded with this.

I don't understand how your response ties in to the verse I posted.

Forgive my ignorance.
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Now I get ya. That is not an ignorant question.
My post was not at you but bouncing off your post containing that scripture.

That scripture says, when one sins 'willfully'. So that is what I was posting about. Without an understanding of what willfull sin is I wasn't correctly understanding even that part of those verses never mind what it means by 'having been sanctified'.

 

[Edward]

Nope that is not what I was saying.
King David was a very mature saved man and not weak in faith in God when he sinned and committed both adultery and murder.

Sanctification? Can one be sanctified and not saved? Yes

I know. I wasn't trying to define your post, but answer the question I thought he was asking. :wink

 

[Gary]

Now I get ya. That is not an ignorant question.
My post was not at you but bouncing off your post containing that scripture.

That scripture says, when one sins 'willfully'. So that is what I was posting about. Without an understanding of what willfull sin is I wasn't correctly understanding even that part of those verses never mind what it means by 'having been sanctified'.

 

[Deborah13]

I see "sanctified" in that passage from Hebrews as meaning "saved".

Here's why.

The parts I have in bold seem to indicate salvation. For instance, one can't go back to something unless they first left it. In order to return to perdition, one would have to leave it first. I don't believe there's a middle ground where someone is partly saved. You either are or you're not. Do you understand what I'm getting at here?



Hebrews 10....(NKJV)
32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings:
33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated;
34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:

37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
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Yes, I see what you are saying. And you could very well be correct that sanctification does mean that they were saved.

 

[Deborah13]

I know. I wasn't trying to define your post, but answer the question I thought he was asking. :wink

Oh I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Thank you for being so understanding.

 

[Eugene]

Limits to what the Blood Cleanses

someone wrote, "Jesus' blood cleanses all our sin. However, it doesn't cleanse the sin we refuse to confess"

You will Not prosper if you cover your sin.

Prov 28:13, 1Jn 1:5-10

I reckon this is really bad news to the thief on the cross?

 

[Obadiah]

Limits to what the Blood Cleanses

someone wrote, "Jesus' blood cleanses all our sin. However, it doesn't cleanse the sin we refuse to confess"

You will Not prosper if you cover your sin.

Prov 28:13, 1Jn 1:5-10

It covers all sins, even those we don't confess, if we don't know we are sinning. And here's where I have a problem with this statement, at least in concerning ongoing sinful behaviour; Who decides what is sin? What if one person is adamant that a person's action is sin, yet the person themselves doesn't see it as sin? Every time I've seen this kind of disagreement it's never been over the obvious things that scripture comes right out and tells us is sin; Things such as blashphemy, idolatry, etc. It's always over the grey areas like smoking, tattoos, music style, clothing style, hair style, what's ok in romantic relationships, etc. The list is endless and the arguments over these kind of things will go on forever. But it's almost never (never that I have seen) been a matter of one Christian honestly saying to themselves "I know this is a sin but I don't care and I'm going to do it anyway." They might say that to the person condemning them just to get them to shut up and walk away in frustration. But they don't really mean it. Either they are simply ignorant that it's a sin or they have some reason to think it's not a sin.

 

[Eugene]

But it's almost never (never that I have seen) been a matter of one Christian honestly saying to themselves "I know this is a sin but I don't care and I'm going to do it anyway."

I wonder if that is the way Peter thought of it when he denied Jesus; I don't know the man.
And then we have others here saying they are not even saved yet, and will not be unless they remain faithful until the end, and they will tell you all manner of how good they are. Yeah, let's listen to that. I'm sure glad God receives them anyhow once they have believed on Him. They're my brethren that want to put me under the condemnation they subject themselves to, but we're not to despise them and love them anyways.