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Bible Study looking at the bible from a hebrew mindset

so then read it like a gentile and take verses literally when in hebrew its an idiom. the bible doesnt tell you where the idioms are. that was up the person who knew the culture to tell it to the gentiles and the jews that believed.
 
Jason,
You know why I started studying Jewish Rabbi's. They just make sense and the more I learn from the Torah, the better I understand the Gospels. It still amazes me how they miss Jesus though. Anyway, I was talking to a friend the other day about oral tradition. 2 Sunday's ago we were studying 1 timothy 2 where women were to dress modestly and the discussion came around to how we should dress to come to church in our "Sunday Best". That is a prime example of Oral Tradition in our modern Christian churches. It's not a bad thing, but it's simply not set in stone but it does give us a glimmer of how our culture shapes our worship.

Somewhere in the NT it is written, "Jews seek after signs and Gentiles seek after knowledge". No wonder there is friction between the way the two groups read the same texts. Gentiles want to turn it into a book of logic and rules while Jews mine it for wisdom as they illuminate each word and phrase.
 
Do you know that Madonna is a follower of the Kaballah? Are you a fan of hers? :p
jasoncran said:
madonna doesnt follow the caballah. sheesh. the orthodox jews are anti- gay rights and abortion. and also sexual purity and they use the caballah. so please. 666 my friend is from the gemetria and its very specific and its in the bible. it lines up with a name.
(nero).
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That Madonna comment was a serious statement wrapped in a joke, and it applies to you also. Reading it may titillate your mind, but it will NEVER lead you into a closer walk with Jesus, as reading the Bible will do; therein lies my concern.

i know when to stop, the use of numbers and pictographic words via the letters is all that i do.
i dont read the zohar, i dont believe in the idea of the tsakkadim as taught by the orthodox.nor in other things.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/142442/jewish/Purifying-Waters.htm
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I know that you will not like what I am saying next, and I do not want to unnecessarily antagonize anyone; nevertheless i speak the truth in love.

Your emphasis in the quote above is emphasizing what you don't do, but is ignoring what you actually do. Basically you say, "I stop here, at this bad point" but you are ignoring the OTHER bad stuff that goes into your mind before you get there. A good parallel is the young smoker of marijuana, which we all know is a gateway drug. Naively, he says, "Since I do not do this, or that, I am OK." Because he uses marijuana, he is blissfully unaware that nearly 100% of the users of heroin of cocaine begin with marijuana. That young user is in denial.

Another parallel is the attempt to use strychnine, and asking "how much of it will hurt me?" ANY book that keeps you away from the Bible, and away from Jesus Christ is as dangerous as strychnine. ANY book doing that has but one author, the Father of lies, and has but one aim: separate you from Jesus Christ

Because the Kabbalah, also spelled Kabala or Qabbālâ (according to Wiki) is an esoteric (meaning understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite) and "new age" it is no different than Scientology or any similar gnostic mind control (liberating, they falsely claim) cult. So while you may not do this, or do things like Tom Cruse, John Travolta or Madonna do now, you are on the same path that they took, and are likewise as much in denial as they are.

nothing in there about madonna's view of sex with anything that moves. she got into the sounds and mysticsm of that, which they do but if she did do that right she would not be the way she is.
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There is nothing that is "right" with the mysticism of Madonna. It is ALL wrong. That comment of yours causes me to believe that you are well on the road of denial, and that you seem to believe that you are immune to the Scriptural command to "touch no unclean thing". Do you perhaps believe that you know more than God ? That is as delusional as it is hubris.

Be honest: Have you stopped reading the Bible since you started reading the Kabbalah? When is the last time you picked it up and read it just to commune with God?

In your heart of hearts you know the truthful answers to those questions. Let those answers be your proof positive that you have been deceived, and led away from the simplicity and wonder of a right relationship with Jesus Christ.

But the great news about seeing that is that it is never too late to repent. Like the father of the prodigal son did, Jesus will come running to you to kiss you and to restore you.
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to hardly. i read it daily or close to it. i have a jewish commentary that is all oral traditions are. they didnt have a church to go in isreal then they taught the torah daily at the gates and ask questions about that. that is what the oral traditions are. that and those discussion and the sages who taught.

jesus quoted them, two of them. hillel and shimei. they were around when he was alive and jesus sided with hillel.

sorry, im doing this because the Lord took me here.i have told my elders of it. one of them warned me of the western kaballah. he that warned is quite knowledgable and taught seminary at the grad level. the western kaballah is what you dont like.



and you miss understood me. the sounds and et all i dont even DO. sheesh. what i said is that if she was jewess then she wouldnt be singing about sex and etc. that is what i meant. nothing more. so please. you are talking to Someone who thinks christians should all together avoid christmas as its very pagan and even spoken against in jermemiah 10. if we started it today and saw the babylonian God tammuz too. easter egg hunts would be out the door as well as yule logs and christmas trees. so please... i dont do the sounds. i merely read jewish comments and so forth. i dont take hebrew letters and line them up and go esoteric.

never have. dont plan on it
 
jasoncran said:
ok since to my knowledge im only jew in the congregation. i tend to look at the bible from my hebrew culture. i wasnt raised in the temple but i have been led by the lord to spend time in the tanach. when i was saved i was told by the saints to read John. the Lord stopped me and told me to hit genesis as that is my roots. this has changed my perspective and often sets me at odds with some in the church.

most in the church dont really dig into the word.
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Since the Sabbath is drawing near, shabat shalom. I am working at acquiring a Hebraic worldview. It is not an easy task. I believe that you heard Yah correctly. During the feasts of the fall. I tried reading the Torah. Genesis annd Exodus have always been favorites. Deuteronomy has become a new favorite. To me, Moses shows his Fatherly love to future followers of YHWH.

To understand parts of the NT, an understanding of torah must be had...

Blessings
 
When I speak with jewish people, being able to dicuss and possibly debate solely from the tanakh will usually impress them. It gives them a reminder that we are reading and belief of many of the same books and beliefs. If it does not compel them to look at the brit chadashah, it at least creates a bridge of friendship and respect.

I find most christians pay too little attention to the old testiment. Not their fault altogether. Most churches just read from Paul's books. Just the way to live and theosophy. A way to keep them at the milk drinking level for life. Well, at least they are that far along.
 
thank you for this I downloaded it to my kindle and I am sure I will love reading it as much as I did my KJV which I know has many misinterpretations in it.
 
StoveBolts said:
Jason,
You know why I started studying Jewish Rabbi's. They just make sense and the more I learn from the Torah, the better I understand the Gospels. It still amazes me how they miss Jesus though. Anyway, I was talking to a friend the other day about oral tradition. 2 Sunday's ago we were studying 1 timothy 2 where women were to dress modestly and the discussion came around to how we should dress to come to church in our "Sunday Best". That is a prime example of Oral Tradition in our modern Christian churches. It's not a bad thing, but it's simply not set in stone but it does give us a glimmer of how our culture shapes our worship.

Somewhere in the NT it is written, "Jews seek after signs and Gentiles seek after knowledge". No wonder there is friction between the way the two groups read the same texts. Gentiles want to turn it into a book of logic and rules while Jews mine it for wisdom as they illuminate each word and phrase.
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that is why paul said the blindness. i have reminded and will explain to my church this wednesday. i was wondering when you poke in here.i agree with this.
 
Jason, i don't know if i'm following you correctly or not, but do you ever read the New Testament? the focus for a christian is first of all Jesus, thus the Gospels. Secondary issues are the letters of Paul etc. for daily christian living and Messianic prophesies of the Hebrew Holy Scriptures.
Romans 16:25-26 - the mysteries of the Messianic prophesies are revealed in Jesus Christ.
 
allenwynne said:
Jason, i don't know if i'm following you correctly or not, but do you ever read the New Testament? the focus for a christian is first of all Jesus, thus the Gospels. Secondary issues are the letters of Paul etc. for daily christian living and Messianic prophesies of the Hebrew Holy Scriptures.
Romans 16:25-26 - the mysteries of the Messianic prophesies are revealed in Jesus Christ.
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i have but if you dont know the story of why jesus spoke the way he did to the pharisees or what the torah was all about then you miss the point.

its sadly hillarious when i hear christians say and eye for eye was literal and a just law. that isnt a proper understanding. God's torah doesnt allow for retribution as we would call that. the only instance close to that is called the avenger of death. that even then is after the guilty has been found guilty by the three witnesses and its then and only then can the murder be put to death by the family member and also when he leaves the city of refuge.
 
no Jason. as a christian, your focus should be on Jesus, not the law.
if Jesus and his teachings are not first in your life, then you are missing the point.
 
sheesh, i wast TOLD by GOD to go to genesis. i posted it that i saw jesus in the book of genesis and also in the passover, and in the levitical marriage called the near kinsmen redeemer. i was told what that was and then i saw it. that is why the lineages of adam to joseph are shown. gentiles are related to jesus from the three sons that formed the seventy nations.

jesus was jew not a gentile.he spoke to jews and in jewish thinking. its wise to understand what the torah was. i have read the nt 4 times and the ot 4 times. dont you think that i ought to dig where im lead!

i have read the jewish thoughts on slavery from the torah and why God gave it and why jews in isreal during the roman occupation didnt own them and how that god gave the torah to transform the world slowly. and paul commands philemon do to what? to take his slave back and treat him as an equal. he never commanded them to go and fight for freedom. hmm lines up with the torah and how it worked.

jesus is the torah and its love. the torah has a love all over it,hint the first two commandments are that,love. he quoted the torah when he taught that thou shall love thy neighbor. hating they neighbor isnt in the tanach at all. so where did it come from? the pharisees! he was telling them that isnt what i told you to do.
 
I am an old Jew with the mind of Christ. I'm also tired, but after reading all this decided to throw a few things at you all. When Paul told us to study to show thyself approved, was he telling us to study the New Testament only? No, the Old Testament also. Can we read Genesis without seeing the parallels of Joseph as a type of Savior for our Beloved? Can we read Psalms or Isaiah without recognizing our Lord Jesus Christ? Can we understand the logic, the wisdom and the spiritual blessings we recieve by recognizing that the Old Testament is one huge example for us to devour of what is about to befall this generation? That's it, just a few things for you to think about. I'm getting ready for bed, right after the Stanford game. Shalom.
 
See if you can see the thread of prophecy and fulfillment that runs through these passages.

So I will choose their punishments And will bring on them what they dread. Because I called, but no one answered; I spoke, but they did not listen. And they did evil in My sight And chose that in which I did not delight." Isaiah 66:4 (NASB)

Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, "What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. "If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." John 11:47-48 (NASB)

When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes." For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation." Luke 19:41-44 (NASB)

Isaiah, writing through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, writes that God will bring upon Israel the punishments they dread the most. Isn't it ironic that in John 11, we see the Sanhedrin gathered to discuss how to preserve their “nation and place” by killing Jesus? Look at the solution upon which they arrived:

But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." John 11:49-50 (NASB)

The thing these men feared the most was losing the power and influence they had as rulers of the people. The bitter irony for them was that God met their injustice against Christ with the very thing they feared the most: they lost their city, their religion, their nation, and their position as the “people of God” when Rome's legions breached Jerusalem's walls in 70 AD and left not one stone upon another, just as Christ predicted.

When the New Testament is carefully read, without the presuppositions of futurism overlayed on it, you will see that the “end times” mentioned throughout it point to this world-shattering event for first century Israel and its temple-centric religion. This is the Jewish mindset through which the New Testament must be read: it really was almost all about them.

With that in mind, crack Revelation open with the new set of eyes you've just been given, and see if it all doesn't begin to make a great deal more sense now. :salute
 
no Jason. as a christian, your focus should be on Jesus, not the law.
if Jesus and his teachings are not first in your life, then you are missing the point.
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As a new guy here (and that's not a put down, just an observation of fact) you might want to read up more on Jason's writings before accusing him of "missing the point." He has about 29,000 posts, so there's plenty of homework you could do before presuming to know what his focus is.

Just sayin'.
 
watchman333 said:
I am an old Jew with the mind of Christ. I'm also tired, but after reading all this decided to throw a few things at you all. When Paul told us to study to show thyself approved, was he telling us to study the New Testament only? No, the Old Testament also. Can we read Genesis without seeing the parallels of Joseph as a type of Savior for our Beloved? Can we read Psalms or Isaiah without recognizing our Lord Jesus Christ? Can we understand the logic, the wisdom and the spiritual blessings we recieve by recognizing that the Old Testament is one huge example for us to devour of what is about to befall this generation? That's it, just a few things for you to think about. I'm getting ready for bed, right after the Stanford game. Shalom.
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that is my point. i just add the culture behind the tanach since we christian need to understand the stories not told(channukah) and the wedding feasts and alos other things(idioms)
 
I'm glad we agree, Jasoncran. It is good to know and understand the traditions of our people, but looking back, I know some of them were ridiculous; like my mom keeping two sets of dishes in the house. One was for every day and the other for Passover and the High Holidays. I don't think God really cared. The problem with traditions is that for the weak, they might usurp the Word of God. As our Lord Jesus told the Pharisees:
And He said unto them, "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." Mark 7.9
 
yeah,some of them are. that is why i cant understand messian jews at times. why would one knowingly place oneself under the torah if its that much of a burden. the yoke of our Lord is light and easy.
 
jasoncran said:
yeah,some of them are. that is why i cant understand messian jews at times. why would one knowingly place oneself under the torah if its that much of a burden. the yoke of our Lord is light and easy.
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You are referring to the Galatian heredy. Some of the Galatians believed that Judiasm was the door to Christianity. Surely, some Messianics believe that.

OTOH there are Messianic Jews who believe that their Christianity is ENHANCED through embracing the customs of their ancestors, and other Christians embrace "neo Judiasm" for the same reason. These two groups I do not believe are heretical. the former, yes.
 
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