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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Pastors should be teachers; they are called to feed the ekklesia. This is why they are coupled with teachers and teaching in the Bible and specifically Eph. 4:11. There are some pastors who take on leading roles, but this should be left to the elders, deacons, bishops, etc. (whatever you want to call them ;) )Cornelius said:I am looking for all the verses that relates to "pastors"
I am desperately looking for a scripture, that will prove that pastors must lead the church.
Spiffy said:Cornelius,
I found these, hope they help.
Jer 3:15, 10:21, 23:1, 23:2; Eph 4:11
Vic C. said:Pastors should be teachers; they are called to feed the ekklesia. This is why they are coupled with teachers and teaching in the Bible and specifically Eph. 4:11. There are some pastors who take on leading roles, but this should be left to the elders, deacons, bishops, etc. (whatever you want to call them ;) )Cornelius said:I am looking for all the verses that relates to "pastors"
I am desperately looking for a scripture, that will prove that pastors must lead the church.
Just like in school, where you have teachers and you have principles.
Spiffy already did post the verses. All I did was elaborate.Cornelius said:Thanks Vic C but I am really looking for scripture here. You can just post the scripture, I would not ask for more.
Not really. That's not a fair generalization. "All HDTV is digital tv, but not all digital tv is HDTV". In other words, all pastors are teachers but not all teachers are pastors. That's just sound reasoning.If I say a pastor is a teacher, then is the teacher a pastor too.
I'd say no, but I don't adhere to a five fold ministry today as it's laid out in the first century.And would that make the evangelist a pastor , apostle, or are they mentioned as five separate ministries ?
Vic C. said:Pastors should be teachers; they are called to feed the ekklesia. This is why they are coupled with teachers and teaching in the Bible and specifically Eph. 4:11. There are some pastors who take on leading roles, but this should be left to the elders, deacons, bishops, etc. (whatever you want to call them ;) )Cornelius said:I am looking for all the verses that relates to "pastors"
I am desperately looking for a scripture, that will prove that pastors must lead the church.
Just like in school, where you have teachers and you have principles.
I'd say no, but I don't adhere to a five fold ministry today as it's laid out in the first century.Vic C. said:Spiffy already did post the verses. All I did was elaborate.Cornelius said:Thanks Vic C but I am really looking for scripture here. You can just post the scripture, I would not ask for more.
Not really. That's not a fair generalization. "All HDTV is digital tv, but not all digital tv is HDTV". In other words, all pastors are teachers but not all teachers are pastors. That's just sound reasoning.If I say a pastor is a teacher, then is the teacher a pastor too.
[quote:1rkgq7rx]And would that make the evangelist a pastor , apostle, or are they mentioned as five separate ministries ?
Spiffy said:Vic C. said:Pastors should be teachers; they are called to feed the ekklesia. This is why they are coupled with teachers and teaching in the Bible and specifically Eph. 4:11. There are some pastors who take on leading roles, but this should be left to the elders, deacons, bishops, etc. (whatever you want to call them ;) )Cornelius said:I am looking for all the verses that relates to "pastors"
I am desperately looking for a scripture, that will prove that pastors must lead the church.
Just like in school, where you have teachers and you have principles.
1 Timothy 5:17 "The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor"
Acts 14:23 "Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church..."
Vic C. said:In other words, all pastors are teachers but not all teachers are pastors. That's just sound reasoning.
Ok, my misunderstanding. Your first two posts led me to believe you were out to disprove they are to be leaders. I guess it was your wording. If by church you mean, the Body or "ekklesia" than I agree; they are shepherds. If by church you mean leading the governing or clerical aspects of the church (building) then I still disagree. Note that I never said teaching is their duty by default. I say it is one of their gifts and not all can teach. That I will admit. I won't agree that they are not to be called as teachers, but since you are not considering OT scriptures, this is a moot point.Cornelius said:OK, you and I agree that they are not called to be leaders. But we both know that the church has placed pastors in leadeship.
I must respectfully disagree that they are teachers by default.
Vic C. said:Ok, my misunderstanding. Your first two posts led me to believe you were out to disprove they are to be leaders. I guess it was your wording. If by church you mean, the Body or "ekklesia" than I agree; they are shepherds. If by church you mean leading the governing or clerical aspects of the church (building) then I still disagree. Note that I never said teaching is their duty by default. I say it is one of their gifts and not all can teach. That I will admit. I won't agree that they are not to be called as teachers, but since you are not considering OT scriptures, this is a moot point.Cornelius said:OK, you and I agree that they are not called to be leaders. But we both know that the church has placed pastors in leadeship.
I must respectfully disagree that they are teachers by default.
If I remember correctly, our views on apostles and prophets in today's congregations differ. They were the foundation of the early ekklesia. The foundation has been built and is complete; it is now the body which is being built up.