[_ Old Earth _] Louisiana Unanimously Passes Academic Freedom Bill

[Catholic Crusader]

Forget it dude. You stick with Carl Sagan, and I'll stick with God. Just remember: Carl Sagan ain't gonna save you when you meet your maker

 

[jmm9683]

Forget it dude. You stick with Carl Sagan, and I'll stick with God. Just remember: Carl Sagan ain't gonna save you when you meet your maker

Well, I'm not worried, seeing as I don't believe in a god. But seeing as you believe some being created everything, Jesus won't help you if you picked the wrong religion, sorry. You're just another player in the afterlife crapshoot.

 

[John]

Well, I'm not worried, seeing as I don't believe in a god. But seeing as you believe some being created everything, Jesus won't help you if you picked the wrong religion, sorry. You're just another player in the afterlife crapshoot.

Me either, If i am wrong i cease to exist. if i am correct i receive an entirety in glory. I can't loose :

 

[jmm9683]

Well, I'm not worried, seeing as I don't believe in a god. But seeing as you believe some being created everything, Jesus won't help you if you picked the wrong religion, sorry. You're just another player in the afterlife crapshoot.

Me either, If i am wrong i cease to exist. if i am correct i receive an entirety in glory. I can't loose :

You lose if you go to another religion's hell.

 

[Snidey]

Forget it dude. You stick with Carl Sagan, and I'll stick with God. Just remember: Carl Sagan ain't gonna save you when you meet your maker

I'm not sure misunderstanding your religion's stance on evolution, which you clearly do, is going to save you either.

 

[Barbarian]

Just so we get this right, the Catholic Church does not require it's members to accept evolution. They are free to even be YE creationists, if they like. However, the Church recognizes that there is nothing in evolution that would be inconsistent with Christianity as Jesus taught it, and the Apostles handed it down to us.

And there is this, from Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI:

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution.
Report of the International Theological Commission, which he chaired; it has his signature.

There are, of course, various sects of Christians who have shed various parts of Apostolic Christianity, but those denominations (Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican) which have held true to orthodox Christian belief, have no problems with evolution.

(Those others are still Christians, BTW; they just have a somewhat different set of beliefs than traditional Christians)\

 

[John]

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on earth are genetically related, it is virtually certain that all living organisms have descended from this first organism. Converging evidence from many studies in the physical and biological sciences furnishes mounting support for some theory of evolution to account for the development and diversification of life on earth, while controversy continues over the pace and mechanisms of evolution.

The Pope can shove his ridiculous views up his (Big pointy hat). Every thing did not come from a single microbe, there zero evidence for this and it clearly goes against what the Bible says. And i for one will not support this man in his ways to place God in a box. In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth and all that in them is. Clear as water, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

....The Pope can shove his ridiculous views up his (Big pointy hat).....

Thats the way to alienate your ally in this thread :x

 

[John]

....The Pope can shove his ridiculous views up his (Big pointy hat).....

Thats the way to alienate your ally in this thread :x

My apologies, but it drives me nuts when people say stuff that goes against the word...

Just say something bad about Hovind and we can be even :wink:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

....The Pope can shove his ridiculous views up his (Big pointy hat).....

Thats the way to alienate your ally in this thread :x

My apologies, but it drives me nuts when people say stuff that goes against the word...

Just say something bad about Hovind and we can be even :wink:

Well, when it comes to this Academic Freedom Bill, I'm on your side.

But you need to remember something: When you say "the Word" as you did above, what you mean is "your intepretation of the Word". Because thats all it is. The vast majority of Christians disagree with your interpretation. I respect your beliefs: You should not disrespect mine in turn

And as for the pope: He is quite a Biblical scholar and theologian: Don't dismiss him so quickly. Of course I believe he is much more, but we'll leave it at that. (I don't know who Hovind is.)

 

[John]

Well, when it comes to this Academic Freedom Bill, I'm on your side.

Amen.

But you need to remember something: When you say "the Word" as you did above, what you mean is "your intepretation of the Word". Because thats all it is. The vast majority of Christians disagree with your interpretation

I fail to see how one could misinterpret "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth"

Lets See...nope i cannot think of another way the interpret that. But lets skip ahead and examine Genesis chapter 1 as a whole. In a nutshell he made everything is 6 days. its there in black and white, this should not even need to fall under any interpretation, i mean i look at a Pepsi bottle and say" its blue!. Then someone else says " i think he meant it was red". don't you see how backwards that is?

. I respect your beliefs: You should not disrespect mine in turn

There is respect and then there is tolerance, i respect you as a person, but i on;y tolerate your views. Just like if there was a Homosexual on the bus i would respect him as a person but his ways i would only tolerate.

And as for the pope: He is quite a Biblical scholar and theologian: Don't dismiss him so quickly. Of course I believe he is much more, but we'll leave it at that. (I don't know who Hovind is.)

I just disagree with him in many areas, the belief on how God created however is not a factor in the achieving glory. I belief that the pope maybe a good man, but the humanistic aspects of the ToE tend to destroy faith and limit God and i am not a fan of that.

 

[Barbarian]

The Pope can shove his ridiculous views up his (Big pointy hat). Every thing did not come from a single microbe, there zero evidence for this and it clearly goes against what the Bible says.

It goes against what you say, but you've rewritten the Bible to suit yourself. The evidence for common descent is overwhelming. Although Darwin had no clue at all about genetics or DNA, both have confirmed the same phylogeny he predicted. And as you saw, predicted intermediates were later discovered. This is why evolutionary theory is so completely established; such evidence is compelling.

Pope John Paul II did a very sensible thing; he wanted to investigate the issue, and so he had Cardinal Ratzinger assemble the best theologians and scientists he could find, and they took a comprehensive look at it.

And i for one will not support this man in his ways to place God in a box.

Rather, the Pope feels no need, as you do, to correct God.

In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth and all that in them is.

True. The only difference between you and the Pope on that issue is, the Pope is willing to accept it God's way.

 

[John]

Good lord.

Regardless of what you think, God has already told us how he did it In Genesis, Any other way that you place over top of what God said is heresy.

 

[Barbarian]

Regardless of what you think, God has already told us how he did it In Genesis,

No, He told us what He did, in Genesis. The "how", He left for us to figure out. But He gave us some important hints. For example, Genesis clearly rules out the "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism, since it says that the earth brought forth life.

Any other way that you place over top of what God said is heresy.

You aren't really a heretic; you're just a little reluctant to let God do it His way.

 

[John]

Regardless of what you think, God has already told us how he did it In Genesis,

No, He told us what He did, in Genesis. The "how", He left for us to figure out. But He gave us some important hints. For example, Genesis clearly rules out the "life ex nihilo" doctrine of YE creationism, since it says that the earth brought forth life.

[quote:21dc0]Any other way that you place over top of what God said is heresy.

You aren't really a heretic; you're just a little reluctant to let God do it His way.[/quote:21dc0]


The way you propose leaves out many important topics, such as if God used evolution at what point did humans have souls? at what point did humans enter heaven/hell? Did Jesus die for the Java man?

If the Egyptians lived way before Jesus and such and were fully human like today why would God not care enough about them to save them?

Whats the talk about "the fall"? according to the Bible there was no death before adam sinned and the Bible dates add up to 6000 years +/- if this this true then Gods a liar because if Evolution happened they way you claim (microbe to man) then there was plenty of death.

i could go on for hours on all the Contradictions evolution has with God.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

But you need to remember something: When you say "the Word" as you did above, what you mean is "your intepretation of the Word". Because thats all it is. The vast majority of Christians disagree with your interpretation

I fail to see how one could misinterpret "In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth"

The fact that God created the Heavens and the Earth is not in question. The Church teaches:

CCC 290: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth": three things are affirmed in these first words of Scripture: the eternal God gave a beginning to all that exists outside of himself; he alone is Creator (the verb "create" - Hebrew bara - always has God for its subject). The totality of what exists (expressed by the formula "the heavens and the earth") depends on the One who gives it being.

The YEC idea, however, is in question . Its pretty safe to say the the earth is millions, if not billions, of years old. The Bible does not ABSOLUTELY say otherwise. Remember, as I said earlier: I trust God's word. But literallistic interpretations of it can often lead on to error. Ancient Hebrews did not write history as we do, with an eye to precise facts and figures. They wrote tales which expressed truths they wished to convey. To properly read the Bible, one must read it in context, and that includes the context of the culture of the author and the authors' style of writing. Again, the Church teaches:

CCC 283 The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers. With Solomon they can say: "It is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements. . . for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm#I

There is much wisdom there

 

[John]

Here CC

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/VS ... LChart.jpg

I can send you the complete thing in PDF format so you can read the text if you wish.

This chart was made by a literal reading of the OT. and in accordance with the Bible there is no way the earth is billions of years old.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Here CC

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y17/VS ... LChart.jpg

I can send you the complete thing in PDF format so you can read the text if you wish.

This chart was made by a literal reading of the OT. and in accordance with the Bible there is no way the earth is billions of years old.

I understand that. The error is in reading the Bible literally, because it was not written literally.

But I believe we are straying off topic. Why don't you open this subject up in the apologetics forum.

 

[John]

Yeah, many topics here in the science forum get derailed here and there.
I will open a thread up else where.

 

[Barbarian]

The way you propose leaves out many important topics, such as if God used evolution at what point did humans have souls? at what point did humans enter heaven/hell? Did Jesus die for the Java man?

He didn't say. I suppose it's not important. At some point, two people were granted immortal souls and from them we all descended. If God chose Homo erectus to do this, would it matter? Remember, smart as we are, we are not significantly smarter than H. erectus as far as God is concerned.

If the Egyptians lived way before Jesus and such and were fully human like today why would God not care enough about them to save them?

What makes you think He didn't? Do you suppose all the billions of people who lived before Jesus were automatically sent to Hell?

Whats the talk about "the fall"? according to the Bible there was no death before adam sinned

We know that death He speaks of is a spiritual death, not a physical one. That was going on for a very long time before Adam. We know this, because God tells Adam he will die the day he eats from the tree. Adam eats from the tree, and yet he lives on physically for many years after. So either the "death" God spoke of is not a physical one, or God did not tell the truth.

And the Bible dates add up to 6000 years +/-

No, that is man's assumption about the dates. It is not supported by the Bible.

if this this true then Gods a liar because if Evolution happened they way you claim (microbe to man) then there was plenty of death.

Even if God didn't do it the way you want it to be, He's not a liar.

I could go on for hours on all the Contradictions evolution has with God.

So far, you haven't shown us one. An Earth less than 10,000 years old is not the Christian reading of the Bible.