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Luke 17:21

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what does your version of this scripture say. i am set to KJV version, the one i agree with. this one states the kingdom of god is within you, other versions might say in the midst of you or among you. the definition of within: inside an enclosed place, area, room, etc..in the mind, heart, or soul; inwardly. does one's faith and baptism separate us from the meaning behind this scripture.

Luke 17:21
 
what does your version of this scripture say. i am set to KJV version, the one i agree with. this one states the kingdom of god is within you, other versions might say in the midst of you or among you. the definition of within: inside an enclosed place, area, room, etc..in the mind, heart, or soul; inwardly. does one's faith and baptism separate us from the meaning behind this scripture.

Luke 17:21

"The kingdom of God" is equal to "kingdom of heaven" in Matt 3:2. "The kingdom of God," may have special reference to the owner of the kingdom, while "kingdom of heaven" has special reference to its locality.

Some think that "within you" means that the kingdom was not within the Pharisees, and that Jesus is not speaking of the "inwardness" of the kingdom, but of its "presence."

It is the same as "kingdom of Christ," or simply "kingdom." Eph 5:5, Heb 12:28. The prophets had prophesied a spiritual kingdom, but the Jews had misunderstood the nature of the kingdom and tainted the meaning of the prophecy so they were expecting an earthly and temporary kingdom.

This kingdom of which Jesus taught was the same as his reign and was spiritual in its nature. John 18:36, Rom 14:17. We do not know what made the Pharisees ask this question at this time. We are made to think that they had no good motive in asking it.
 
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I also use the KJV and while some believe that the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to different things, it is clear that both phrases are referring to the same thing. The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs only 32 times, and only in the Gospel of Matthew. In response to this, some interpreters have come to the conclusion, with the understanding of the Jewish nature of the Gospel of Matthew that Matthew was writing concerning the millennial kingdom while the other New Testament authors were referring to the universal kingdom. However, a study of the use of the phrase reveals that this interpretation is in error.

For example, in the story of the rich young ruler in Matthew 19:16-24, Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” to speak of the spiritual kingdom. “Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven’” (v. 23). In the very next verse, Christ proclaims, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” So, in answer to the rich young ruler’s question concerning eternal life (v. 16), Christ uses the phrases “kingdom of God” and “kingdom of heaven” interchangeably.

Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” quite frequently. In the same parable, the authors used different words, indicating that the two are referring to the same thing. Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11 with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each of these instances, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and/or Luke used “kingdom of God.” Clearly, the two phrases are interchangeable because they refer to the same thing.
 
i understand that the kingdom of god and the kingdom of heaven are the same thing, but that's not the focus of discussion here. the focus here is more on the definition of the word 'within'. your spirit and soul are within/inside of your body. Luke 17:21 says the kingdom of god is within/inside you. you as human flesh with a soul and spirit inside of you. when god draws you to salvation, and you're baptized in his holy spirit, he's not baptizing the world. he's baptizing you with his spirit and his word. he baptizes your spirit, soul and body 1 Thessalonians 5:23 the definition of baptism - to clean and purify spiritually.

you are only baptized in the holy spirit once in your lifetime. when you're baptized in his spirit, he's cleansing you of your sins from the inside out so his kingdom which is holy can reside inside of you for the rest of your life. after jesus died, his prophets understood this revelation. when jesus died he resurrected himself into his prophet's spirit, soul and bodies because he is alive in heaven and he is the god of spirit!

god of spirit, his holy spirit and jesus/god of flesh/the word are all one being. you have to understand that god the father is a spirit, many people do not understand that. jesus resurrects himself into people who truly believe he was/is god. god of spirit is touch, feeling and intimacy; not just on the outside of your flesh but on the inside. god of spirit loves us so much that he manifested himself into flesh, and his name is jesus. why did he do this, because god loves us more than creation itself. how did he manifest himself into flesh, he is god. god is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. the definition of faith - placing confidence or trust in a person or thing; belief that is not based on proof.

look at it this way: the trinity is the perfect math problem, but in order to figure out the answer you have to understand that god is a spirit first.
 
Spiritual vs carnal
These are the only two uses of Strong's G1787.

Luk 17:21 - Neither shall they say , Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold , the kingdom of God is within(Strong's G1787) you.

Mat 23:26 - [Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within(Strong's G1787) the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
 
what does your version of this scripture say. i am set to KJV version, the one i agree with. this one states the kingdom of god is within you, other versions might say in the midst of you or among you. the definition of within: inside an enclosed place, area, room, etc..in the mind, heart, or soul; inwardly. does one's faith and baptism separate us from the meaning behind this scripture.

Luke 17:21
It is probably best understood as "in the midst of" or "among," not "within." Jesus is responding to the Pharisees and I think that in light of all the scathing remarks and judgments Jesus proclaims over the them, that they least of all could be said to have the kingdom of God "within" them. Rather, because of the signs Jesus performed among them, he is likely referring to himself and his ministry through the power of the Spirit as being the kingdom of God "in the midst of" them.
 
John 3:
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The kingdom of God is His Spirit that indwells us when we are Spiritually born again by His word and Spirit to know that of the mind of Christ in our relationship with God.
 
Bullinger has it...

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is among you yourselves."

Bullinger's notes:

within = in the midst of, or, among: i.e. already there in the Person of the King (whose presence marks a kingdom). Greek entos, the same meaning as Greek. en (App-104.), with the plural rendered "among" 115 times in N.T. The same meaning as in Mat_12:28. Joh_1:26.

The Diaglott has it...

Luke 17:21 nor will they say: Lo here, or, or there; lo for, the majesty of the God in the midst of
you is.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

He was speaking to the Pharisees, the Kingdom of God was certainly not inside of them...

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
 
It is probably / he is likely

probably and likely are words of uncertainty. within, among and midst are three separate words, but among and midst have the same definition. within is a completely different word with a different definition. why not just use one word to describe the kingdom of god. why is there three words. also, what is your own definition of 'within'. break words down by definitions, because different words have different meanings.

The kingdom of God is His Spirit that indwells us

the definition of indwell - to abide within, as a guiding force, motivating principle, etc.
 
probably and likely are words of uncertainty.
Yes, they are, but they also have to do with probability. I think that in general Christians need to become more familiar with using and accepting such language and not be so certain that their position or understanding is the right one. Christians should be very certain of very little.

urk said:
within, among and midst are three separate words, but among and midst have the same definition. within is a completely different word with a different definition. why not just use one word to describe the kingdom of god. why is there three words.
Firstly, it reveals the difficulties with biblical translation and that a Greek word quite often has more than one meaning depending on context. It is up to the translators to use a particular word to best fit with the Greek.

Secondly, all three words are true of the presence of the kingdom of God, although, referring back to my first point, "among" and "midst" best fit the context.

urk said:
also, what is your own definition of 'within'. break words down by definitions, because different words have different meanings.
'Within' means what it says--having to do with the inside or interior of something.
 
"among" and "midst" best fit the context.

but that's just your opinion. are you speaking for all christian's because i disagree with you and i'm a christian.

'Within' means what it says--having to do with the inside or interior of something.

yes but the scripture says 'within you'. inside of you. what is the definition of the word 'you'.
 
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but that's just your opinion. are you speaking for all christian's because i disagree with you and i'm a christian.
Of course it is my opinion but I am not the only one with that opinion. I just see no reason to believe that 'within' is the best interpretation since Jesus is talking to the Pharisees.

urk said:
yes but the scripture says 'within you'. inside of you. what is the definition of the word 'you'.
'You' is simply the pronoun 'you', and is used in one of the ways it is always used.
 
I think the word you covers the you as a group the you as a single person... down the lines that the Kingdom is part of us... intertwined weaving us together as a body and persons. Connective tissue if you will. What is the kingdom? God tells us what it is...
Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
 
Of course it is my opinion but I am not the only one with that opinion. I just see no reason to believe that 'within' is the best interpretation since Jesus is talking to the Pharisees.

and i'm not the only one with my opinion, that's fair enough.

in the gospel of john, jesus and the pharisees weren't just talking, they were disagreeing with each other. jesus wasn't just talking to them, he was teaching and preaching to the pharisees, but how did the pharisees respond to his message. they were angry because they believed in the law of moses. they didn't understand that the word of god jesus was speaking of was from god the father/god of spirit/and god's holy spirit. the god of love and creation is a spirit that is holy.

'You' is simply the pronoun 'you', and is used in one of the ways it is always used.

i'm speaking of 'you' as a human being walking this earth with a soul and spirit that are inside of your flesh.
 
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and i'm not the only one with my opinion, that's fair enough.

in the gospel of john, jesus and the pharisees weren't just talking, they were disagreeing with each other. jesus wasn't just talking to them, he was teaching and preaching to the pharisees, but how did the pharisees respond to his message. they were angry because they believed in the law of moses. they didn't understand that the word of god jesus was speaking of was from god the father/god of spirit/and god's holy spirit. the god of love and creation is a spirit that is holy.



i'm speaking of 'you' as a human being walking this earth with a soul and spirit that are inside of your flesh.
Sorry but I'm really not seeing how this pertains to the verse in question.
 
Sorry but I'm really not seeing how this pertains to the verse in question.

sorry i'll try to explain it better, why were the pharisees angry with jesus..

in the gospel of john, jesus and the pharisees weren't just talking, they were disagreeing with each other. jesus wasn't just talking to them, he was teaching and preaching to the pharisees, but how did the pharisees respond to his message. they were angry because they believed in the law of moses. they didn't understand that the word of god jesus was speaking of was from god the father/god of spirit/and god's holy spirit. the god of love and creation is a spirit that is holy.

i'm speaking of 'you' as a human being walking this earth with a soul and spirit that are inside of your flesh.

and point out specifically what you don't understand from what was said here and why you think it doesn't pertain to Luke 17:21
 
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