Marijuana VS Pork

[theLords]

That's circular. You're arguing that it is sinful because it induces a state of mind in which a person cannot give glory to god because it is sinful. See the problem?

Yes, but why can we not give glory to God through Christ after using cannabis? This is my question.

You're like impossible to talk to.

Using drugs as a medium to reach God is sinful--period. If a terminally ill cancer patient is using their medical mj to seek God and information through the supernatural they step over into serious sin. It's divination. The only way to seek God is through Jesus Christ, not marijuana. Drugs expose you to the supernatural realm. It's a dangerous place to play, having the "veil" lifted from your mind. People have been taking drugs to play in the supernatural for centuries. The Native Americans still do it, in fact.

It perplexes me that, you, having never smoked are trying to justify/rationalize just why weed is okay. Young Christians who are trying to decide whether marijuana is okay or not will google the subject and I pray to God they don't fall to your 'sterile' logic of justification for this sin.

 

[WIP]

1 Peter 1:13-17 NKJV
"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.â€

If we are under the influence of drugs, alcohol, lust, envy, covetousness, etc. we are not holy.

1 Peter 5:8-11NKJV
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Not to us be the glory but to Him. If we are under the influence of drugs, alcohol, lust, envy, covetousness, etc. we are not giving Him the glory.

 

[Jam]

Using drugs as a medium to reach God is sinful--period.
If a terminally ill cancer patient is using their medical mj to seek God and information through the supernatural they step over into serious sin. It's divination. The only way to seek God is through Jesus Christ, not marijuana. Drugs expose you to the supernatural realm. It's a dangerous place to play, having the "veil" lifted from your mind. People have been taking drugs to play in the supernatural for centuries. The Native Americans still do it, in fact.

You did not answer my question: why can we not seek or give glory to God through Christ after using cannabis?

Putting aside the idea of divination briefly, I would appreciate an answer. My point has not been to defend the use of cannabis in order to reach God (which I would argue is not necessarily "divination"); rather, it has been asserted that the state of mind induced by cannabis is sinful, and I seek justification for this assertion.

It perplexes me that, you, having never smoked are trying to justify/rationalize just why weed is okay. Young Christians who are trying to decide whether marijuana is okay or not will google the subject and I pray to God they don't fall to your 'sterile' logic of justification for this sin.

I would appreciate it if you did not misrepresent my "side" in this discussion. As I've stated numerous times now, all I have been doing in this thread is refuting assertions that cannabis is always sinful, or always sinful for recreational purposes. I've not argued for a single circumstance in which it is okay to use cannabis. If it makes it easier for you, visualise me as a "neutral" party with no original inclination one way or another. People are trying to convince me that cannabis use is always sinful, and thus far they have failed. I make no argument of my own; I merely explain the failings' of others.

Also as I have said multiple times, if someone posts something that is false, why should I not point this out? Are you suggesting that I should ignore falsities just in case they are not really falsities? Again, that would be dishonest on my part.

I feel I must say that your attitude irks me somewhat. You believe that cannabis use is always and necessarily sinful, and it is fair enough that you believe this to be true. But then to come to a discussion regarding whether or not cannabis is sinful, begin by assuming that it is sinful, assert that this is the case and provide little or no rational justification for this claim, and then implicity accuse your opponent (myself) of being a stumbling block to others because they do not accept your argument... well, I struggle to see how that can be construed as anything other than dishonest and potentially offensive.

 

[Jam]

1 Peter 1:13-17 NKJV
"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.â€

If we are under the influence of drugs, alcohol, lust, envy, covetousness, etc. we are not holy.

Why can we not be holy after using cannabis?

1 Peter 5:8-11NKJV
"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Not to us be the glory but to Him. If we are under the influence of drugs, alcohol, lust, envy, covetousness, etc. we are not giving Him the glory.

Why do you believe that are we unable to give Him glory after using cannabis? In the context of this verse, why do you believe that an individual cannot resist satan after using cannabis?

 

[theLords]

You did not answer my question: why can we not seek or give glory to God through Christ after using cannabis?

Yes, I did. Drug use opens the door to the unseen supernatural realm. (If you're one of those Christians who doesn't believe in the supernatural, devils, demons, miracles, etc. Please let me know now, before I expend more energy into this.) Playing in the supernatural realm is dangerous, and entering the supernatural through anything or anyone other than Jesus Christ is occultic, witchcraft, divination.

Putting aside the idea of divination briefly, I would appreciate an answer. My point has not been to defend the use of cannabis in order to reach God (which I would argue is not necessarily "divination"); rather, it has been asserted that the state of mind induced by cannabis is sinful, and I seek justification for this assertion.

You argue it's not divination, but it's merely your opinion. If you want it to become fact, go smoke a blunt or drop some acid. Enjoy the so-called "hallucinations" ;)

I would appreciate it if you did not misrepresent my "side" in this discussion. As I've stated numerous times now, all I have been doing in this thread is refuting assertions that cannabis is always sinful, or always sinful for recreational purposes. I've not argued for a single circumstance in which it is okay to use cannabis. If it makes it easier for you, visualise me as a "neutral" party with no original inclination one way or another. People are trying to convince me that cannabis use is always sinful, and thus far they have failed. I make no argument of my own; I merely explain the failings' of others.

You contradict yourself: "As I've stated numerous times now, all I have been doing in this thread is refuting assertions that cannabis is always sinful, or always sinful for recreational purposes."

"I've not argued for a single circumstance in which it is okay to use cannabis."

What? It's not always sinful, but you're not arguing a single instance in which it is okay?

Also as I have said multiple times, if someone posts something that is false, why should I not point this out? Are you suggesting that I should ignore falsities just in case they are not really falsities? Again, that would be dishonest on my part.

False according to your definition. You've changed the definition of sobriety several times now.

I feel I must say that your attitude irks me somewhat. You believe that cannabis use is always and necessarily sinful, and it is fair enough that you believe this to be true. But then to come to a discussion regarding whether or not cannabis is sinful, begin by assuming that it is sinful, assert that this is the case and provide little or no rational justification for this claim, and then implicity accuse your opponent (myself) of being a stumbling block to others because they do not accept your argument... well, I struggle to see how that can be construed as anything other than dishonest and potentially offensive.

Your attitude irks me too, because it's the justification baby Christians are looking for to smoke their weed. You have no idea the danger your argument is putting them in and you have no idea the damage it will cause to their hearts and minds. Then they get caught up in the drug culture and begin to experience demonic manifestations, attack, and influence in their lives and can't figure out why! "Because this plant is not always necessarily sinful, dude, so let's just keep blazing up while we destroy ourselves from within bro!"

You know what's truly offensive? A dude who's never been touched by the tragedy of drugs, trying to rationalize why "recreational use" is not always sinful.

I remember the words of a friend of mine: "I used to smoke weed thinking it was from God, but then I realized it was pulling me away from God, and not towards Him, and that's when I realized I had bought into a lie."

 

[Jam]

Yes, I did. Drug use opens the door to the unseen supernatural realm. (If you're one of those Christians who doesn't believe in the supernatural, devils, demons, miracles, etc. Please let me know now, before I expend more energy into this.) Playing in the supernatural realm is dangerous, and entering the supernatural through anything or anyone other than Jesus Christ is occultic, witchcraft, divination.

How does cannabis use "open the door" to the supernatural realm?

You argue it's not divination, but it's merely your opinion. If you want it to become fact, go smoke a blunt or drop some acid. Enjoy the so-called "hallucinations" ;)

Cannabis use very rarely causes hallucinations.

You contradict yourself: "As I've stated numerous times now, all I have been doing in this thread is refuting assertions that cannabis is always sinful, or always sinful for recreational purposes."

"I've not argued for a single circumstance in which it is okay to use cannabis."

What? It's not always sinful, but you're not arguing a single instance in which it is okay?

I think you've missed the point.

I haven't argued for any circumstances in which it is okay to use cannabis.
I have refuted arguments asserting that cannabis use is sinful.

Where's the contradiction? I didn't make an argumenbt that it is not always sinful; I said that I've refuted arguments claiming that it was. I haven't argued for any specific instance in which cannabis use is okay. Don't believe me? Search through this thread.

False according to your definition. You've changed the definition of sobriety several times now.

Yes; perceived falsities, then... but how else can I identify a falsity if not by perception? If an individual perceives a falsity, why should they ignore it?

Where have I "changed the definition"? I wasn't aware that I'd directly given any definition of sobriety.

Your attitude irks me too, because it's the justification baby Christians are looking for to smoke their weed. You have no idea the danger your argument is putting them in and you have no idea the damage it will cause to their hearts and minds. Then they get caught up in the drug culture and begin to experience demonic manifestations, attack, and influence in their lives and can't figure out why! "Because this plant is not always necessarily sinful, dude, so let's just keep blazing up while we destroy ourselves from within bro!"

Well this is because no-one thus far has demonstrated that smoking cannabis will put people in danger, damage their hearts and minds or cause them to experience demonic manifestations and attacks... why should I believe that this is the case? You can't assume that I already hold your beliefs when you make these points.

Again, if it helps you, stop thinking of my posts as "arguments" in themselves: I have attacked others' arguments and made none of my own, as far as I am aware.

You know what's truly offensive? A dude who's never been touched by the tragedy of drugs, trying to rationalize why "recreational use" is not always sinful.

Has it occurred to you that this exact point may play a part in why I reject claims that recreational use always leads to tragedy? I've been around a fair many cannabis users for a long time, and not been touched by any tragedy.

 

[theLords]

How does cannabis use "open the door" to the supernatural realm?

Go and talk to a former occultist.

Cannabis use very rarely causes hallucinations.

Have you smoked it? Funny, thing about trusting second hand sources. Yeah, it's rare, but still...

I think you've missed the point.

I haven't argued for any circumstances in which it is okay to use cannabis.
I have refuted arguments asserting that cannabis use is sinful.

It's the same contradiction worded differently.

Yes; perceived falsities, then... but how else can I identify a falsity if not by perception? If an individual perceives a falsity, why should they ignore it?

Where have I "changed the definition"? I wasn't aware that I'd directly given any definition of sobriety.

You won't give a definition, but won't accept Webster's definition either.

Well this is because no-one thus far has demonstrated that smoking cannabis will put people in danger, damage their hearts and minds or cause them to experience demonic manifestations and attacks... why should I believe that this is the case? You can't assume that I already hold your beliefs when you make these points.

Again, if it helps you, stop thinking of my posts as "arguments" in themselves: I have attacked others' arguments and made none of my own, as far as I am aware.

You tell others it's not always sinful, but refuse to put your own spirit at risk...

Has it occurred to you that this exact point may play a part in why I reject claims that recreational use always leads to tragedy? I've been around a fair many cannabis users for a long time, and not been touched by any tragedy.

There's only one way to find out first hand. Yeah, I'm sure they keep telling themselves that. If they're not Christian, whatever, if they are Christian... :bigfrown

 

[Jam]

Go and talk to a former occultist.

I'm not sure that's wise... If I ever get the opportunity and it appears okay to do so, then I will. Until then, though, please forgive me if I don't accept that cannabis leads to the occult.

Have you smoked it? Funny, thing about trusting second hand sources. Yeah, it's rare, but still...

No, as I think you are aware. I trust second-hand sources to a certain degree when they corroborate each other so heavily.. I think it would be unwise of me not to.

It's the same contradiction worded differently.

Care to explain the contradiction that you perceive? Is it possible for a person to refute arguments that cannabis is always sinful without arguing for specific circumstances in which it is not? Yes. Thus, it is not a contradiction.

I can understand your confusion, though: I think it's caused by the fine distinction that I made earlier.. are you saying that if I reject the assertion that cannabis is always wrong then I implicity accept the idea that sometimes it is not wrong?

You won't give a definition, but won't accept Webster's definition either.

I accepted that as the definition of sober, but I pointed out that it would not be the same as Paul's definition of sober, given that he was probably not aware of many of today's drugs - such as cannabis.

You tell others it's not always sinful, but refuse to put your own spirit at risk...

Again, I'm not advocating use; I have merely refuted arguments that it is always sinful.

I see no reason why I should use cannabis; I have no need for it, and my family has a history of psychopathology so I may well be predisposed to psychosis or schizophrenia.

There's only one way to find out first hand. Yeah, I'm sure they keep telling themselves that. If they're not Christian, whatever, if they are Christian... :bigfrown

Most of them aren't (or weren't- I'm not still in contact with most of them; by God's grace maybe they are now) Christian, but I'd thought in this context you were talking about more generic and physical tragedy than spiritual tragedy.

 

[WIP]

I will try to answer these questions but based on your responses so far, I doubt you will agree with what I say so with that said, I will not argue this point but only share what I can and I'll let God take over from here.

Why can we not be holy after using cannabis?
Holy by definition means to be perfect in goodness and righteousness. There is no room for anything that would take even the most miniscule piece of that perfection away. Being under the influence of a recreational drug, ergo high, takes away from our ability to think clearly and rationally thereby deeming us less than perfect even assuming we were already perfect in every other aspect. I have to ask myself, "Would Jesus get high if He was on earth today?"





Why do you believe that are we unable to give Him glory after using cannabis? In the context of this verse, why do you believe that an individual cannot resist satan after using cannabis?

When one gets high it is impossible to bestow one's full attention to where it belongs, ergo to God. I'll share an example from my own personal experience.

I used cannabis at one time in my life and we often got together to play cards while high. When we were high we couldn't concentrate well enough to play a hand of smear much less an entire game. When it came around to our turn to play, we'd forget who's turn it was and would have to ask multiple times, "Who's turn is it?" Or we'd repeatedly forget what game we were actually playing or what the trump suit was or who's turn was it again?

There is absolutely no way one could possibly glorify God (i.e., give due praise, honor, worship, or dignity). We were locked in our own little world to the point of not really knowing what world we were in.

 

[Jam]

I will try to answer these questions but based on your responses so far, I doubt you will agree with what I say so with that said, I will not argue this point but only share what I can and I'll let God take over from here.

Thanks for your contribution despite your preconceptions about me, and thanks for the tone of your response. I don't know if it just feels kinder because it's juxtaposed with the pretty heated discussions I've been having with theLords and Stovebolts, but I appreciate it nonetheless.

Holy by definition means to be perfect in goodness and righteousness. There is no room for anything that would take even the most miniscule piece of that perfection away. Being under the influence of a recreational drug, ergo high, takes away from our ability to think clearly and rationally thereby deeming us less than perfect even assuming we were already perfect in every other aspect. I have to ask myself, "Would Jesus get high if He was on earth today?"

Does this mean, then, that at any moment at which we are not thinking clearly (or are not able to think clearly) due to our own actions, you believe that we are sinning?

When one gets high it is impossible to bestow one's full attention to where it belongs, ergo to God. I'll share an example from my own personal experience.

I used cannabis at one time in my life and we often got together to play cards while high. When we were high we couldn't concentrate well enough to play a hand of smear much less an entire game. When it came around to our turn to play, we'd forget who's turn it was and would have to ask multiple times, "Who's turn is it?" Or we'd repeatedly forget what game we were actually playing or what the trump suit was or who's turn was it again?

There is absolutely no way one could possibly glorify God (i.e., give due praise, honor, worship, or dignity). We were locked in our own little world to the point of not really knowing what world we were in.

Again, I have another (very similar) question. I know you don't plan to respond anyway, so I won't think anything of it if you do not answer these.

Does this mean that at any moment at which we cannot give our full attention to God (due to our own actions) we are sinning?

 

[theLords]

I'm not sure that's wise... If I ever get the opportunity and it appears okay to do so, then I will. Until then, though, please forgive me if I don't accept that cannabis leads to the occult.

Not wise to speak to a former (as in no longer practicing) occultist... okay...

I don't need you to believe me or accept it. I'm looking out for the kids who think smoking weed is not sinful and will smoke it because of your "logic". You end up safe and sound, while they end up in bondage.

James 3:1 New International Version (©1984)
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

If you want to teach other Christians that it's okay to smoke weed sometimes because it's not always sinful, then keep James in mind.

I accepted that as the definition of sober, but I pointed out that it would not be the same as Paul's definition of sober, given that he was probably not aware of many of today's drugs - such as cannabis.

Speculation, no? He was most certainly aware that people used things to get high. Just because they weren't busting down meth labs in his hood doesn't mean he was ignorant of it. "There is nothing new under the sun"

Again, I'm not advocating use; I have merely refuted arguments that it is always sinful.

Yeah, advocating others "non-sinful" use, while keeping your spirit sin free and blameless.

I see no reason why I should use cannabis; I have no need for it, and my family has a history of psychopathology so I may well be predisposed to psychosis or schizophrenia.

But, justifying others use is more than okay.

Most of them aren't (or weren't- I'm not still in contact with most of them; by God's grace maybe they are now) Christian, but I'd thought in this context you were talking about more generic and physical tragedy than spiritual tragedy.

Matthew 10:28 (NIV)
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Spiritual first, body second. Always.

 

[WIP]

Thanks for your contribution despite your preconceptions about me, and thanks for the tone of your response. I don't know if it just feels kinder because it's juxtaposed with the pretty heated discussions I've been having with theLords and Stovebolts, but I appreciate it nonetheless.




Does this mean, then, that at any moment at which we are not thinking clearly (or are not able to think clearly) due to our own actions, you believe that we are sinning?




Again, I have another (very similar) question. I know you don't plan to respond anyway, so I won't think anything of it if you do not answer these.

Does this mean that at any moment at which we cannot give our full attention to God (due to our own actions) we are sinning?

I didn't say I wouldn't answer your questions. Only that I wouldn't argue the points. Something tells me you're going somewhere with this that I'm not going to feel comfortable with. To answer both of your questions which are basically the same I'd say, yes, I do believe that when we intentionally do things to distort our thinking, our mind, or our bodies in such a way that we lose sight of reality and our ability to focus on God then we are committing sinful acts.

 

[jasoncran]

yet ye say that theres no push for the legalisation of mj in the uk. then what of this?

http://wfad.se/latest-news/1-articles/365-britain-should-not-make-the-same-mistakes-as-portugal

also i posted an article on this forum on the russian drug problem that a had a link to that.hmm

 

[Jam]

Not wise to speak to a former (as in no longer practicing) occultist... okay...

My apologies: I must have either misread that or got confused.

James 3:1 New International Version (©1984)
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

If you want to teach other Christians that it's okay to smoke weed sometimes because it's not always sinful, then keep James in mind.

Okay then, ignore me and continue to misrepresent my stance, that's cool. I'm rather disinclined to respond to another accusation such as this.

I am well aware of that verse and its implications, thankyou.

Speculation, no? He was most certainly aware that people used things to get high. Just because they weren't busting down meth labs in his hood doesn't mean he was ignorant of it. "There is nothing new under the sun"

There probably were people who used substances to "get high", yes. That's not really the point though, is it? We're talking of cannabis; not "drugs" or "substances" in general. When Paul talks of sobriety, he's not talking about cannabis! So to quote Paul on sobriety in support of the case against cannabis is not correct: you are quoting out of context.

By all means quote at me more verses out of context, but know that I won't accept them as valid for this discussion; you know as well as I do that that Ecclesiastes quotation doesn't mean that cannabis has always been used.

Yeah, advocating others "non-sinful" use, while keeping your spirit sin free and blameless.

Okay then, ignore me and continue to misrepresent my stance, that's cool. I'm rather disinclined to respond to another accusation such as this.

I don't need you to believe me or accept it. I'm looking out for the kids who think smoking weed is not sinful and will smoke it because of your "logic". You end up safe and sound, while they end up in bondage.

Your approach intrigues me: I've stated numerous times that I'm not out to show that cannabis use is fine or to advocate its use, and yet you continue to accuse me of this. Now you also accuse me again of being a stumbling block for others simply for critiquing arguments for what you believe to be the truth. If we follow your standards through, we would never be able to discuss at all whether anything is sinful just in case those younger in Christ overheard and were swayed by the side which turned out to be wrong.

If it will help, picture me as one of these "kids": assume that I had no idea whether cannabis use was sinful or not when I came to this thread. People have explained to me why they believe that it is sinful in all circumstances to use cannabis, and I have accepted that it is wrong in many circumstances: the logic and arguments have been good. What has not been thus far demonstrated to me is that it is wrong in all circumstances. I have rejected arguments that this is the case because they have not been sound or valid. Aside from my very first post (which was not replied to and so has played no part in this discussion), this is the exact way in which I have approached this topic.

 

[Jam]

I didn't say I wouldn't answer your questions. Only that I wouldn't argue the points. Something tells me you're going somewhere with this that I'm not going to feel comfortable with. To answer both of your questions which are basically the same I'd say, yes, I do believe that when we intentionally do things to distort our thinking, our mind, or our bodies in such a way that we lose sight of reality and our ability to focus on God then we are committing sinful acts.

Yes; I suspect that I am going somewhere shortly where we'll begin to disagree... what about, for example, sleeping and (marital) sexual relationships? When we sleep we are entirely out of contact with reality and are unable to focus on God, and when we engage in sexual relations with our wives or husbands it is also incredibly easy to be focussed on the physicality and not on God. We intentionally engage in these acts. Are they sinful?

Just to clarify, I'm not putting sex and sleep on a par with cannabis; I simply use them to question whether or not intentionally distorting out mentality is always sinful.

 

[Jam]

yet ye say that theres no push for the legalisation of mj in the uk. then what of this?

http://wfad.se/latest-news/1-articles/365-britain-should-not-make-the-same-mistakes-as-portugal

Firstly, I never said that there was no push. I simply said that the majority of people in the UK do not believe that cannabis should be legal. I must admit, though, that I based this more on my own environment and experiences than official numbers and so I'm not sure exactly how accurate this was. Do you have any stats regarding attitudes to the legalisation of cannabis in the UK, if you believe the subject to be relevant?

Secondly, I don't get how the link you just posted there shows public support for cannabis legalisation? Cannabis is mentioned twice, and even then only in passing, and the article is from the World Federation Against Drugs. The primary aim of the organisation is a drug-free society for all. Did you misread the link, or did you perhaps post the wrong one? I'm a little confused, I must admit!

also i posted an article on this forum on the russian drug problem that a had a link to that.hmm

I've done a quick search for this, but I can't find it anywhere I'm afraid! If you think it's worth a read, could you post me the link? Thanks.

 

[jasoncran]

Firstly, I never said that there was no push. I simply said that the majority of people in the UK do not believe that cannabis should be legal. I must admit, though, that I based this more on my own environment and experiences than official numbers and so I'm not sure exactly how accurate this was. Do you have any stats regarding attitudes to the legalisation of cannabis in the UK, if you believe the subject to be relevant?

Secondly, I don't get how the link you just posted there shows public support for cannabis legalisation? Cannabis is mentioned twice, and even then only in passing, and the article is from the World Federation Against Drugs. The primary aim of the organisation is a drug-free society for all. Did you misread the link, or did you perhaps post the wrong one? I'm a little confused, I must admit!

the bbc and your version of dept of justice want all drugs legalised.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063152/Drug-legalisation-We-need-like-hole-head.html

that is where i get that.

you are being acused of pushing drugs here because for something that you surely havent tried you are awfully defending the use of it.


how do you know if its what they say it is or not? based on what first hand or second hand.

really you say well its based on my friends who i have made observation.

yet you reject those that have used it for years, and stopped it.

YOU PROTEST TOO MUCH..for something that you arent interested in nor would use. so that leads many to conclude your are not honest.

i cant stand football, and i dont believe its a sin to play but i am not going to promote something that i simply dont like.

 

[Jam]

the bbc and your version of dept of justice want all drugs legalised.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2063152/Drug-legalisation-We-need-like-hole-head.html

that is where i get that.

I just wanna say that the Daily Mail is probably the most unreliable source in existence;) My friends and I often joke (somewhat ironically, perhaps, given the first paragraph of that link) that to achieve a very accurate worldview, all one must do is read the Mail every day and automatically take the opposite view to that which is presented therein.

On a more serious note, I'm extremely skeptical of your claims that the BBC and "our version of the department of justice" want all (or even any) drugs legalised. These claims are not supported at all by the link you posted, unless you take the fact that one BBC reporter has praised his perception of the success of Portugal's drug legalisation to mean that the whole BBC must be in support of the legalisation of all drugs... and that clearly is not a very accurate view to hold

you are being acused of pushing drugs here because for something that you surely havent tried you are awfully defending the use of it.

YOU PROTEST TOO MUCH..for something that you arent interested in nor would use. so that leads many to conclude your are not honest.

i cant stand football, and i dont believe its a sin to play but i am not going to promote something that i simply dont like.

If several people had apparently been illogically arguing that football was sinful, however, would you not try to point out these falsities to deconstruct the argument? In some ways I think it almost dishonest to only support views with which one agrees regardless of whether they are correct.

how do you know if its what they say it is or not? based on what first hand or second hand.

really you say well its based on my friends who i have made observation.

yet you reject those that have used it for years, and stopped it.

Almost every single one of my posts here has referred to scientific evidence and not to personal observations. Only twice have I done otherwise, IIRC:
-first to demonstrate that cannabis use does not always lead to tragedy: I know users who did not experience tragedy due to cannabis. That's a deductive proof that requires no more than personal observations.
-second to claim that cannabis legalisation was not advocated by the majority in England, and I have accepted that this claim is unsubstantiated.

What's the problem?

 

[WIP]

Yes; I suspect that I am going somewhere shortly where we'll begin to disagree... what about, for example, sleeping and (marital) sexual relationships? When we sleep we are entirely out of contact with reality and are unable to focus on God, and when we engage in sexual relations with our wives or husbands it is also incredibly easy to be focussed on the physicality and not on God. We intentionally engage in these acts. Are they sinful?

Just to clarify, I'm not putting sex and sleep on a par with cannabis; I simply use them to question whether or not intentionally distorting out mentality is always sinful.

I knew it! :p

Sleep doesn’t necessarily cut us off from God for the Bible is full of examples where he has communicated to many people while they slept. I also acknowledge there is a “high†involved with intimate relations but perhaps one could consider this thought. Is it reasonable to think that an activity such as sleep designed as a necessary function for the survival of our bodies by God, the creator or our bodies, and a commandment issued by the same God, "Be fruitful and multiply," would not apply in this case? Cannabis fulfills neither of these rolls and does mess us up both physically and mentally.

 

[theLords]

Revelation 22:14-15

Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

φάρμακος
pharmakos

Origin:
from pharmakon (a drug)

Definition
pertaining to magical arts
a poisoner, sorcerer, magician


Translated in the verse as "sorcerers"

This word is the same from which we get the English Pharmaceutical or pharmacist or pharmacy.
In the ancient world, people abused drugs to conjure up dreams and visions and mixed potions and elixirs with "magical" properties.

It would seem that God is warning against both occult practices and drug abuse.

Galatians: 5:19-21

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

φαρμακεία
pharmakeia

Origin:
from pharmakeuó (to administer drugs)

Definition:
the use of medicine, drugs or spells

Translated as "witchcraft"

Galatians uses a slightly different variation of the same word used in Revelation.

This is clearly a warning to drug abusers. Search the Holy Scriptures and the concordances for yourself and be fully persuaded in your own mind.