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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Mark of the beast - buying and selling?
- Thread starter Endtime_Survivors
- Start date
Obadiah
Member
I don't have time at work to watch a 50 minute video. It would have been helpful if you would have given us a synopsis.
But as for the microchips, I've heard a lot about them being mandatory and it always seems it turns out to be nothing more than a rumor. I really tend not to worry to much about this kind of thing because, first and foremost, God loves me and will work everything together for good. Secondly, I remember when credit cards started becoming more popular and all these worried Christians were saying they were the mark of the beast. Today we see how silly that was. Then ATM cards came along, and they were the mark of the beast. And now we see how silly that was too. Oh, almost forgot about social security numbers. Those were definitely the mark of the beast at one time! I'm sure a few years down the road we will be saying the same thing about these microchips too.
But as for the microchips, I've heard a lot about them being mandatory and it always seems it turns out to be nothing more than a rumor. I really tend not to worry to much about this kind of thing because, first and foremost, God loves me and will work everything together for good. Secondly, I remember when credit cards started becoming more popular and all these worried Christians were saying they were the mark of the beast. Today we see how silly that was. Then ATM cards came along, and they were the mark of the beast. And now we see how silly that was too. Oh, almost forgot about social security numbers. Those were definitely the mark of the beast at one time! I'm sure a few years down the road we will be saying the same thing about these microchips too.
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Sinthesis
Member
Mat 13:44 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 - Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
Mat 13:45 ¶ Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 - Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
So buying and selling are not necessarily bad.
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Obadiah
Member
Endtime_Survivors
Member
Sure, I agree that God's seal is almost certainly invisible and definitely more grounded in the spiritual. But the Mark of the Beast is the counterfeit of this concept; it makes sense that it would be physical. That doesn't mean it is excluded from having spiritual significance and consequence; God or money, just like Jesus taught in Matthew 6:24-34.
Besides, how can you be prohibited from buy/selling without some kind of physical identifier?
Endtime_Survivors
Member
Only mandatory insofar as you want to buy/sell. That's not the system we have now, but the wrold is moving in that direction.
There's a difference between recognition and worry. When Jesus said, "watch" I believe he was referring to the former.
Perhaps it was silly for people to exaggerate their claims for those various steps in the evolution of money. People could still buy and sell without using credit cards and atm cards, so those things did not fit the definition. However, those things are steps in the direction of the Mark. A cashless economy doesn't happen overnight. It takes time for people to get used to and then become dependent on new technology, especially something as invasive as implants, but as history shows people will get used to it. As more and more businesses switch over to using these cashless systems instead of cash, cash will become obsolete and even the die-hard anti-chip people will be forced to either switch over to the new system of find some other way to get their provision.
Obadiah
Member
Mandatory means mandatory. I didn't put any qualification on the word. So far it's been nothing but rumor spread by fearmongers.
As I said, I tend not to worry about this kind of thing. God is going to do His will whether or not I am worried about it.
And the only people that I've heard claiming that this chip when implemented will be the only way to buy or sell anything seem to be the fearmongers. A long time ago they were saying the same thing about credit cards and ATM cards, but I can still use regular old cash when I want to. I'm just not at all convinced that this newest version of the mark of the beast is truly it. It doesn't even fit the prophesy because they are showing it implanted in the arm and the prophesy specifically dictates the hand or forehead. It also specifically dictates the mark will be the number 666. I know there are a few different interpretations of the original language where it may not be a literal 666 in Hindu-Arabic numerals, but I know of no credible theological position that says the original language intended to say the mark would consist of a person's entire medical and financial history as is the case with these chips. In fact the original language is very specific that this is a visible mark, such as a "scratching" which is probably referring to some kind of tattoo, and all it does is indicate that this person is a follower of the antichrist. There will be a time when those without this mark will not be able to buy or sell, but there is no indication whatsoever that this mark would be a computer chip embedded invisibly under the skin of the upper arm as they are showing this to be.
I see no indication that the financial part of this chip is really any different than a debit card other than since it's embedded under your skin it can't be lost and would be hard to steal.
Chopper
Member
You are right on Glory Girl. The mark of the beast will happen during the first half of the tribulation period. The Elect, or Bride of Jesus will have been gathered to Himself pre-trib.
Endtime_Survivors
Member
Part of the Great Deception will be the speed at which change occurs. Some change happens slowly. Money has been evolving and changing shape for thousands of years, but it's moving much faster now than it ever has. It still feels slow because even 20 or 30 years seems a long time to beings who only live for maybe 100 years. But compared to the invention of Gold coins 4000 years ago, the advent of electronic money in the past 30 years has been a sprint in the evolution of money.
It seems you have this idea that you'll always be able to use cash. It doesn't take much browsing or research to find that conclusion to be wishful thinking. While it's true that there have been plenty of people jumping the gun on what the Mark is, that doesn't negate the fact that the shape of money is changing.
Just as we cannot use cash from even a hundred years ago, so too a time is coming when money in the shape of cash will also become obsolete. I'm surprised you're so stubborn about this when the evidence is so prevalent.
For now you can use regular old cash when you want to, but that will change. Eventually you will be forced to choose. Anyone who is not prepared to face their dependency on money will almost certainly end up taking the Mark.
Obadiah
Member
No, never said that. I just have this idea that God will take care of me somehow.
I'm surprised you are so insulting when I thought this had been a nice conversation where I was presenting an alternative viewpoint. This is a ToS violation.
smaller
Member
Mark of the beast? Buying and selling?
Some very simple questions to ask in these things:
Who are the players in the drama? If you see/say "only man" that is a wrong answer. The end time premise has more than just MAN involved. EXAMPLE: The devil and his messengers comprise at least 1/2 of the account of Revelation and concerning the bad/dire parts, they constitute nearly all of that role.
Who is the beast? Revelation 16 very clearly identifies the beast as one of 3 spirits of devils, so we are not even discussing PEOPLE in that matter, but are discussing SPIRITS OF DEVILS. So why do people waste their time trying to pin their sights only on PEOPLE? That is part of what "the beast" does. It "spiritually" blinds PEOPLE. dig?
In dissecting end time, why is it that no one factors in an entire array of entities and all the vast typology associated with the UNSEEN in these matters? I chalk it up to unbelief myself. Most people can't believe what they can't see and don't consider the unseen presentations in the scriptures to be REAL. I happen to be on the other side of that sight. The scriptures do very much engage the UNSEEN. And, the UNSEEN is REAL.
So, moving on. What is being bought and sold? Only material matters? Heavens no! Don't people see that barter in the spiritual senses is not LITERAL buying and selling? Why would it then be only LITERAL buying and selling in the ADVERSE senses of the term buying and selling?
I will say this. Those who are waiting around for tats and chips are wasting their breath and their time, along with those who are looking for some "bad guy man" to be the anti-Christ. That is all just the work of dime store novelists who are milking you out of time and money for their own gain. It's a fantasy of their own making. With a dose of the workings of the UNSEEN characters to help such nonsense along.
Some very simple questions to ask in these things:
Who are the players in the drama? If you see/say "only man" that is a wrong answer. The end time premise has more than just MAN involved. EXAMPLE: The devil and his messengers comprise at least 1/2 of the account of Revelation and concerning the bad/dire parts, they constitute nearly all of that role.
Who is the beast? Revelation 16 very clearly identifies the beast as one of 3 spirits of devils, so we are not even discussing PEOPLE in that matter, but are discussing SPIRITS OF DEVILS. So why do people waste their time trying to pin their sights only on PEOPLE? That is part of what "the beast" does. It "spiritually" blinds PEOPLE. dig?
In dissecting end time, why is it that no one factors in an entire array of entities and all the vast typology associated with the UNSEEN in these matters? I chalk it up to unbelief myself. Most people can't believe what they can't see and don't consider the unseen presentations in the scriptures to be REAL. I happen to be on the other side of that sight. The scriptures do very much engage the UNSEEN. And, the UNSEEN is REAL.
So, moving on. What is being bought and sold? Only material matters? Heavens no! Don't people see that barter in the spiritual senses is not LITERAL buying and selling? Why would it then be only LITERAL buying and selling in the ADVERSE senses of the term buying and selling?
I will say this. Those who are waiting around for tats and chips are wasting their breath and their time, along with those who are looking for some "bad guy man" to be the anti-Christ. That is all just the work of dime store novelists who are milking you out of time and money for their own gain. It's a fantasy of their own making. With a dose of the workings of the UNSEEN characters to help such nonsense along.
markathome
Member
Even if I did you wouldn't read them.
I gave you hundreds of scriptures from Revelation in another thread on here and you said the same thing that I wasn't posting scripture.
Do you not view Revelation as Scripture?
2 Timothy 2:23-26
markathome
Member
markathome
Member
Chopper my good and faithful friend, I wish I could explain more about the mark of the beast, but I have to stay in the guidelines of the ToS. I can say it is a Luciferian New World Order of a united one world government that controls all power over economics, political and religious system that will force all to bow down and take its mark, or in other words believe its deceptions of peace and safety by lying signs and wonders that will cause a great falling away and those Christians who refuse to denounce Christ and take its mark will either be thrown into work camps or die a martyr's death.
I don't believe in a Pretrib Rapture, but believe we will endure all things of the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments God will pour out on those who refuse to repent, Matthew 24:13, 14. God has already sealed us, Ephesians 4:30, that His judgments will not touch us and has anointed us to preach the Gospels not only now, but through all the tribulations that have never been seen before and will never be seen again, Matthew 24:21. If you study Rev chapter 19 you will read about the marriage supper of the Lamb has now come, meaning has now come as all the judgments of the seven trumpets and seven vial judgments are finished and those who return with Him as His army are wearing fine linen, clean and white, they are we the saints of God that comes with Jesus as He plants His feet on the mount of Olives and makes an end to all abominations that have caused much desolation as He then cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and then a time later Satan is also cast into the lake of fire.
You said and I quote you: "Revelation 16 very clearly identifies the beast as one of 3 spirits of devils"
Can you tell us what these three spirits are?
I always read the scriptures you have given, but you equate scripture with a list of definitions, but never give any explanation other than dictionary responses.
Sinthesis
Member
An idol is an idol only to those who worship it. To those who don't it will be just scribbles, or just a piece of sculpture, or just a bad idea.
Sinthesis
Member
It means the 1st century Jewish temple leadership became corrupted by pagan Rome's ideals and began actively promoting them. Not that anybody is likely to accept that meaning.