Bible Study mark of the beast or antichrist? 666

[thesaintman]

can you say me it

 

[Eugene]

mark of the beast or antichrist? 666
can you say me it

Not me. I'm in Christ, and will be gone to heaven prior to the second half of the week.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand There will be no Holy temple as such when the man of Sin puts himself before unbelievers as God, much like that of Nebuchadnezzar having people bow to his image. Those elect of that time will not be fooled according to
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. They will be sealed by the Holy Spirit, although beheading may be their fate, much like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego being thrown into the fiery furnace in Dan 3:23.

Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

 

[for_his_glory]

A mark can mean a visible impression, identifying seal, inscription or label and also the thoughts of the mind and actions of the hand. The mark of the beast is just that which is full of political self governed power that disguises itself as a religious system full of symbolism that is very deceptive to those who have no Spiritual discernment. From its throne will be displayed many signs and wonders that will promise peace and safety during the time of great tribulation as Gods wrath will be poured out during the seven trumpets sounding. Many will take this mark believing it to be a visible sign of God, but with a great falling away from God will be deceived and separated from God forever. Rev 13, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12

 

[Corn Pop]

Not me. I'm in Christ, and will be gone to heaven prior to the second half of the week.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand There will be no Holy temple as such when the man of Sin puts himself before unbelievers as God, much like that of Nebuchadnezzar having people bow to his image. Those elect of that time will not be fooled according to
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. They will be sealed by the Holy Spirit, although beheading may be their fate, much like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego being thrown into the fiery furnace in Dan 3:23.

Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan 3:6 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

I respectfully disagree.

Mat 24:15 When YE therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Jesus was speaking directly to people at that time in the 1st century (not you and me) who were jews and had the scriptures, and it was when they see the AOD. When YE therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.

Matthew 24 was Jesus speaking to some people when they see all those things. Not you, me, or the next generation. It was for those people the things that would come to pass in there lifetime.

"See I have told YOU all these things"

" Even so, when YOU see all these things, YOU know that it is near, right at the door.Truly I tell YOU, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Read the whole chapter and all those things was for the people he was speaking to and that generation.

The High Priest
"Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."


Jesus said the Kingdom comes without observation.

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

The house of God was judged and the Temple was levelled. Christ returned and gave the Kingdom to God.

Paul said the gifts of the Spirit would cease. Everyone thinks they have the gifts of the Spirit. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit for a time until he returned.

1 corinthians 13:8
"Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."

If people believe Jesus and Paul they would believe what they said.

How can people believe they are saved if they dont believe Christ has returned?. There not saved.

"so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

 

[Eugene]

Mat 24:15 When YE therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Jesus was speaking directly to people at that time in the 1st century (not you and me) who were jews and had the scriptures, and it was when they see the AOD. When YE therefore shall see the abomination of desolation.
Matthew 24 was Jesus speaking to some people when they see all those things. Not you, me, or the next generation. It was for those people the things that would come to pass in there lifetime.

Good morning Brother kiwidan. I’ll begin with a short reply concerning the viewpoints Jesus was speaking of, and the following scripture refers to the end time; at least in my opinion.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (or age)?
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Something to think on concerning the great tribulation to come is:
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. ( This is an army of two hundred million - have we ever saw such a thing?)

 

[Corn Pop]

Good morning Brother kiwidan. I’ll begin with a short reply concerning the viewpoints Jesus was speaking of, and the following scripture refers to the end time; at least in my opinion.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (or age)?
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Something to think on concerning the great tribulation to come is:
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. ( This is an army of two hundred million - have we ever saw such a thing?)

The 6th Trumpet. Christs army in the clouds was 200 million.

Brother, do you know how severe the tribulation was from 66-70ad that was for 3.5 years?.

 

[Eugene]

Brother, do you know how severe the tribulation was from 66-70ad that was for 3.5 years?.

As it is written, there was not one stone left upon another of the temple in Mt 24:2, and that occurred in 70 AD. Dan 9:26 prophesies it, but that was not the most severe tribulation that would ever come upon the world, and it was not the end of the age.
Estimates of Rome's total population only came to 70 million to 100 million; not even close to the 200,000,000 to come later.

Recent demographic studies have argued for a population peak ranging from 70 million to more than 100 million. Each of the three largest cities in the Empire—Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch— was almost twice the size of any European city at the beginning of the 17th century.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pop...0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.cd2XtjBwXFI

 

[Corn Pop]

As it is written, there was not one stone left upon another of the temple in Mt 24:2, and that occurred in 70 AD. Dan 9:26 prophesies it, but that was not the most severe tribulation that would ever come upon the world, and it was not the end of the age.
Estimates of Rome's total population only came to 70 million to 100 million; not even close to the 200,000,000 to come later.

Recent demographic studies have argued for a population peak ranging from 70 million to more than 100 million. Each of the three largest cities in the Empire—Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch— was almost twice the size of any European city at the beginning of the 17th century.
https://www.google.com/search?q=population+of+roman+empire+at+its+height&oq=population+of+rome+in+70+AD?&gs_l=psy-ab.1.3.0i71k1l4.0.0.0.17495.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.cd2XtjBwXFI

Each to there own. I believe the 200 million was Christ leading his army in the clouds at the 6th Trumpet.

 

[Eugene]

Each to there own. I believe the 200 million was Christ leading his army in the clouds at the 6th Trumpet.

Even if it was, which I don't believe, wouldn't the fact that Mat 24:21 saying "then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, indicate that the time of 70 AD was not the worst tribulation?

 

[Corn Pop]

Even if it was, which I don't believe, wouldn't the fact that Mat 24:21 saying "then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, indicate that the time of 70 AD was not the worst tribulation?

It would have been the biggest tribulation in the history of mankind for all those in Jerusalem.

Jesus was telling them what was going to happen. He told them, the ones who believed and who were still alive years later fleed to the mountains where they had a place prepared when they seen Jerusalem surrounded by the Romans because they knew Christ was coming and the time was at hand.

Christ told them all the signs and all the things that would happen leading to his return.

 

[Eugene]

Jesus was telling them what was going to happen. He told them, the ones who believed and who were still alive years later fleed to the mountains where they had a place prepared when they seen Jerusalem surrounded by the Romans because they knew Christ was coming and the time was at hand.
Christ told them all the signs and all the things that would happen leading to his return.

Where do you think any holy place was that the abomination would have stood in? That temple that was destroyed sure wasn't holy; Jesus had given a bill of divorce according to Jer 3:8. Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place.

 

[Runner]

One of the accepted, mainstream interpretations of Revelation (but certainly not the prevailing one) is that the book is talking strictly to a First Century audience about First Century events (with, of course, a timeless message that is relevant to today). This is the "preterist" view. The two variants in the manuscripts - 616 and 666 - mesh perfectly with the name and title of Nero Caesar, who would have been the prime First Century candidate for the beast. The numeric equivalent of Nron Qsr (the Greek version of the name and title) in Hebrew is 666, while the numeric equivalent of Nro Qsr (the Latin version) in Hebrew is 616. Even the miraculous recovery from a fatal head wound in Revelation 13:3 meshes with a story that was circulating about Nero at the time.

As I say, the preterist view of Revelation is not the prevailing one - but it does make a great deal of sense and eliminates much of the obsessive goofiness (or fun, depending on your perspective) of trying to apply the specific details of Revelation to current events. Revelation retains its timeless message and warnings, but no time need be spent on trying to solve the 666 puzzle.

 

[Corn Pop]

Where do you think any holy place was that the abomination would have stood in? That temple that was destroyed sure wasn't holy; Jesus had given a bill of divorce according to Jer 3:8. Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place.

Well John was told to measure the temple the gentiles would tread the city, and the only other temple spoken of is the Heavenly Jerusalem where God is the temple and no one treads the heavenly Jerusalem.

I believe the 2nd temple was still standing when John penned Revelation.

The AOD could have been a sign of Christ booting Satan out of heaven about the time when all the people from around the world went to Jerusalem for passover and those who seen the signs of Jerusalem surrounded by the Romans got out of Jerusalem and fleed to the mountains.

What did Jesus say to his diciples.

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

The AOD could have been when the Romans were building there army on the doorstep.

 

[Eugene]

I believe the 2nd temple was still standing when John penned Revelation.

There are some that hold to your thinking on that Dan, and the following articles plus tradition use a later date of 95 AD. I reckon we'll know for sure when we're there.

What year did John write revelation?
In 70 AD, the Roman Army, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, to suppress an uprising of the Jews. According to the historian Josephus, about 1.1 million Jews were killed. Others were taken as slaves. http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/e30.htm

Early Church tradition dates the book to end of the emperor Domitian (reigned AD 81–96), and most modern scholars agree, although the author may have written a first version under Vespasian (AD 69–79) and updated it under Domitian.
https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...1k1j0i3k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.o0_O2qrHnrI

 

[Corn Pop]

There are some that hold to your thinking on that Dan, and the following articles plus tradition use a later date of 95 AD. I reckon we'll know for sure when we're there.

What year did John write revelation?
In 70 AD, the Roman Army, under Titus, destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, to suppress an uprising of the Jews. According to the historian Josephus, about 1.1 million Jews were killed. Others were taken as slaves. http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/e30.htm

Early Church tradition dates the book to end of the emperor Domitian (reigned AD 81–96), and most modern scholars agree, although the author may have written a first version under Vespasian (AD 69–79) and updated it under Domitian.
https://www.google.com/search?q=when+did+the+apostle+John+write+the+book+of+Revelation?&oq=when+did+the+apostle+John+write+the+book+of+Revelation?&gs_l=psy-ab.3...10425.32060.0.32359.55.55.0.0.0.0.161.3150.54j1.55.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.28.1625...0j0i131k1j0i3k1j0i22i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.o0_O2qrHnrI

Josephus was a non bias historical writter. He never claimed to be a Prophet or had an agenda so his works are non bias, but sure there would be some corruption and error, monks changing words and adding things and whatever, but all and all im sure there is a fair account that was written.

As he said I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it.

Eye witness's told him they seen troops of army and soldiers riding horses and chariots in the sky around the cities.

No one has to believe it, he just wrote what people told him they had seen.

There is other non bias historical writtings that give 1st century events. A bit more history of the 1st century.

 

[Eugene]

Josephus was a non bias historical writter. He never claimed to be a Prophet or had an agenda so his works are non bias, but sure there would be some corruption and error, monks changing words and adding things and whatever, but all and all im sure there is a fair account that was written.

As he said I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it.

Eye witness's told him they seen troops of army and soldiers riding horses and chariots in the sky around the cities.

No one has to believe it, he just wrote what people told him they had seen.

There is other non bias historical writtings that give 1st century events. A bit more history of the 1st century.

Yes Brother kiwidan, I’ve read Josephus’ account. If what he wrote is true, I’m surprised it didn’t become scripture; he sure developed an audience for it, and I don’t read of him mentioned by the apostles.

Being that this thread is concerning those required to receive the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that those million or more that died in 70 AD did so as the result of not taking that mark?

Just something to think about is the Lord’s Day of Rev 1:10 where John found himself at that point in time. He was given three viewpoints to write according to Rev 1:19. Write the THINGS which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter, and that would be after he was invited to heaven in Rev 4:1 . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Would you agree that what John was shown after Rev 4:1 was a future viewpoint from the time Jesus received His own throne in Rev 4:2, and that just prior to the temptation to come upon all the world certain elect were said to be kept from in Rev 3:10?

Okay, let’s examine that future time of the mark of the beast. Does John see things that are future of the beginning of the Lord’s Day?
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Thanks.

 

[Corn Pop]

Yes Brother kiwidan, I’ve read Josephus’ account. If what he wrote is true, I’m surprised it didn’t become scripture; he sure developed an audience for it, and I don’t read of him mentioned by the apostles.

Being that this thread is concerning those required to receive the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that those million or more that died in 70 AD did so as the result of not taking that mark?

Just something to think about is the Lord’s Day of Rev 1:10 where John found himself at that point in time. He was given three viewpoints to write according to Rev 1:19. Write the THINGS which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter, and that would be after he was invited to heaven in Rev 4:1 . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Would you agree that what John was shown after Rev 4:1 was a future viewpoint from the time Jesus received His own throne in Rev 4:2, and that just prior to the temptation to come upon all the world certain elect were said to be kept from in Rev 3:10?

Okay, let’s examine that future time of the mark of the beast. Does John see things that are future of the beginning of the Lord’s Day?
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Thanks.

Not sure. I dont know all of what revelation means. Not sure about the mark of the beast. But the AOD was when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem because in one gospel Jesus tells his diciples when they see the AOD, and the parallel, he tells his diciples when they see Jerusalem surrounded by an Army.

 

[Eugene]

Not sure. I dont know all of what revelation means. Not sure about the mark of the beast. But the AOD was when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem because in one gospel Jesus tells his diciples when they see the AOD, and the parallel, he tells his diciples when they see Jerusalem surrounded by an Army.

Okay brother. Thanks.

 

[Corn Pop]

Yes Brother kiwidan, I’ve read Josephus’ account. If what he wrote is true, I’m surprised it didn’t become scripture; he sure developed an audience for it, and I don’t read of him mentioned by the apostles.

Being that this thread is concerning those required to receive the mark of the beast, are you suggesting that those million or more that died in 70 AD did so as the result of not taking that mark?

Just something to think about is the Lord’s Day of Rev 1:10 where John found himself at that point in time. He was given three viewpoints to write according to Rev 1:19. Write the THINGS which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter, and that would be after he was invited to heaven in Rev 4:1 . . Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Would you agree that what John was shown after Rev 4:1 was a future viewpoint from the time Jesus received His own throne in Rev 4:2, and that just prior to the temptation to come upon all the world certain elect were said to be kept from in Rev 3:10?

Okay, let’s examine that future time of the mark of the beast. Does John see things that are future of the beginning of the Lord’s Day?
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Thanks.

Brother, as you say John was writting things that he seen that are, and were to come.

As it was written to 7 churches in Asia, in modern day Turkey or wherever they were, it was obviously telling them what was, and, what was to come.

If Jesus said to someone 'you will see these things', that means that person would see those things in there lifetime right?,

Jesus told them everything that wpuld happen before his return, some of them would be persecuted and put to death and others standing there would not taste death until his return.

Is that not obvious he is saying and the many many other things to other people he would be returning in that generation, and he even did literally say that, he said that generation would not pass all those things been fullfilled.

When they see Jerusalem surrounded by an Army. And Jerusalum was surrounded by an Army. How on earth do people think everything is future.

He gave that generation the Holy Spirit why he was gone and told them he would be back. And Pauls running around in his supersonic sandles telling everyone to stand upright and be blameless, preaching the gospel, and waiting on Christs return.

Christ was returning to judge and usher in the New heaven and earth where all the past is done away with and we have salvation.

The old earth a curse and old heaven with satan.

The world should be rejoicing but everyones having a cry.

 

[Eugene]

John was writting things that he seen that are, and were to come.
Amen, and we do not read where it was restricted to those presently alive at that time. I like the way this is beginning to develop in your thinking (Word upon word & precept upon precept (Isa 28:10).
Chapters two & three of Revelation pronounce the judgment of the total Church from its inception through those that will be kept from the temptation to come upon all the world (Rev 3:10 which occurs in the first half of the week of tribulation.)
As it was written to 7 churches in Asia, in Turkey or wherever, it was obviously telling them what was, and, what was to come.

If it wasn't for the Church today also, what were those of Rev 2:10, and Rev 3:10 going to be rewarded for, and have crowns for?

If Jesus said to someone 'you will see these things', that means that person would see those things in there lifetime right?

Have you considered who the 24 elders of the Church that are present with Jesus in heaven really are? Did they have lives way back when? Are they seeing, talking (Rev 4:10-11), and casting their crowns before the feet of Jesus in that future time just prior to the tribulation to come upon all the world.
Do they say in Rev 5:9 that Jesus had redeemed them to God by His blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation? And miracle upon miracle they're with Jesus prior to the time when the abomination sits promoting himself as the holiness of God, and will never be subject to the mark of the beast because they're in heaven before that even begins.