marriage question..appreciate your advice

[squash]

What happens if there are a man and a woman, and one of them prints out a personally made marriage certificate. They both sign it, but the places for the witnesses' signatures are left blank. God was called upon somewhere within the wording on the certificate (i.e. the vow was before God).

Is this a valid marriage in the eyes of God (for the purpose of this I don't care whether it is in the eyes of the government or not -- but it isn't in the particular location this took place)? Obviously it is a sin not to follow through on that which was vowed to/before the Lord, but what I want to know is whether it is a binding marriage in His eyes. Any biblical insight?

There are other circumstances regarding it which may cause you to think that it is invalid... but as for now I wanted to start with this much and see what would be said.

edit: more information below:

I am the man in this story. It happened several years back in a foreign country. As mentioned, there were no human witnesses, nor was there a minister of the gospel, any ceremony, any civil paperwork (etc.), her parents were not informed of this (nor were mine) although naturally they knew we were in a relationship.

I was a professing Christian (I say that because my life was dominated by sin and I frankly have no solid reason to think that I did trust in Christ then -- but God knows either way). She is/was an unbeliever.

I can't say that we considered ourselves as married. Although I remember thinking about looking for witnesses to fill in the rest of the paper, I'm pretty sure I knew (thought) in my heart that it was not really a marriage. Almost immediately afterward, we actually started a process of applying to bring her to the United States...not as a wife, but as a fiance.

We're not living together any longer. This took place in 2002. 2003 was the last time I physically saw her, as I was unable to find a way to legally stay an extended period of time in her country. We kept a relationship of some sort (we thought of it as boyfriend/girlfriend) until roughly the end of 2005.

I don't remember the exact wording of the vows on the paper but it was pretty much a standard wedding vow type of text.

Please understand, as a side note, that I don't mean that I don't care about the government...but rather that I'm not trying to discern what is a marriage in their eyes (and I already know that this is not in the location that it took place) but simply want to see what I ought to do as unto the Lord.

I guess I just want to know what to do...and I've certainly prayed about it but, perhaps from my hardness of hearing, I can't discern which way to go. Is it, in God's eyes, already a marriage and I must commit to this girl for life? Is it not yet a marriage but because of the vow something that I need to turn into a marriage anyway? Or is that last point negated since she is an unbeliever and we aren't to vow things that force us to sin (in this case marrying an unbeliever)? If, on the other hand, I'm not required to marry/remain married with her, what should I do to convince my conscience that that not being with her (or marrying someone else) is the right thing in the eyes of the Lord?

I'm just so confused...and have no one but myself to blame!

-squash

 

[Mike]

Squash, Welcome to the boards! :waving
I hesitated before approving this in the Parenting & Marriage Forum, because members need to be (or have been) married or have children. We'll see how this goes, but it may need to be moved at some point.

I've always maintained that if two people solemnly stand before the Lord, pledge their lives together, and invite the Lord into their union, they are made one by the Lord. He will bless this just as much as if they had gone through a marriage service. Some might say they marriage is then consummated and at that point it becomes a union. But I believe it is created in the promise made to each other AND the Lord.

Gen 1
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-54">23</sup> The man said, “This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.â€
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-55">24</sup> That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh."

This says nothing about anything "official", but merely implies a vow that is made between a man and a woman. As you say, this has no impact on a society recognizing that marriage, but I believe it is established in concert with God.



If this is about you and a promise you made, I would ask if this an honest pledge you made to your partner and the Lord and hold this union with the permanence it implies. If it was not, and you are not committed to your promise, then the marriage is not. Whether this is about someone else or yourself, you need to meet the criteria for this forum, which is why I started out saying we'll see how this goes.

Be blessed, and welcome again!

 

[PouringRain]

I would agree with Mike that the pledge you made to each other and before God is binding. Anytime we make an oath before God we must fulfill that oath.

From your post, I couldn't tell if you were either 1) looking for confirmation that your marriage is valid before God, or 2) looking for an "out" to say that it was never valid.

If your intent is the first, then I would say that it is valid, but that you should also both sign and swear by it in front of witnesses. The witnesses will serve as confirmation that the two of you have both made a decision to come into this union under God by your own volition and neither forced the other to sign under duress. So, the witnesses serve as your witnesses before men that you have come into a union of marriage. Also, the witnesses serve to be a form of checks and balances for the two of you. They serve to hold the two of you up, accountability.

If the second is your intent, and you are looking for someone to say it is not valid, because you want an "out", then I would refer back to my initial response-- you made an oath before her and before God. A promise of marriage was made. I am guessing it was probably also consummated? A joining of two into one has already occurred. The commitment needs to be honored.

Consider the example of Mary and Joesph in the Bible. The two were betrothed to be married, but had not officially entered into the marriage yet (and had not even consummated it yet). But the betrothal was a promise to be married, and if Joseph had wanted out when Mary was found to be pregnant, he would have had to put her away with a certificate of divorce. Breaking the "promise" was not as simple as saying "forget it" like people do in today's society.

 

[lamplady]

I use to be in two minds over this - I thought that a marriage only required the acknowledgement of God too - but can you tell people you're married? If it's available for people to get married officially I think they ought to as I think it's the public declaration before God that makes it valid.

 

[squash]

Thank you all for posting your thoughts.

I edited my post and included more information. Please understand, I wasn't leaving out information in order to hide it from y'all, but because I wanted to get down to what I thought the base of the situation was, and not confuse it. If anyone would like to comment on the added information, please, I would greatly appreciate it. I am thankful for what you've written so far. If you asked any particular questions, I will try to write back to them in more detail when I have an opportunity.

 

[PouringRain]

You said that you kept a relationship until roughly the end of 2005. What contact have the two of you had since then? You said you were not able to legally stay in her country. Was she ever able to come to the US?

In some ways those question are moot with what I am about to say.

You asked "Or is that last point negated since she is an unbeliever and we aren't to vow things that force us to sin (in this case marrying an unbeliever)?"

The answer to that would be no, because you are permitted to marry an unbeliever and the Bible also says you are required to stay married to the unbeliever provided they want to. Look at 1 Corinthians 7:12-16. If the unbelieving spouse wants to divorce, then you are no longer bound to the marriage.

From what it sounds like you are saying, it sounds as though she chose to leave the marriage back in 2005 (or earlier). From what you wrote, it sounds as though she was never committed in the first place (but you were), and possibly she was just wanting to come to the US. You know the situation better than any of us here, but I would recommend that you carefully think about the whole thing and to examine if you feel Paul's teaching in the scripture I gave fits. If she does not want to remain married then you are not bound to her.

 

[lamplady]

I think then my original answer stands. The fact that you yourself didn't really acknowledge it as a marriage at the time either is saying something ...

 

[handy]

I can't say that we considered ourselves as married. Although I remember thinking about looking for witnesses to fill in the rest of the paper, I'm pretty sure I knew (thought) in my heart that it was not really a marriage. Almost immediately afterward, we actually started a process of applying to bring her to the United States...not as a wife, but as a fiance.

We're not living together any longer. This took place in 2002. 2003 was the last time I physically saw her, as I was unable to find a way to legally stay an extended period of time in her country. We kept a relationship of some sort (we thought of it as boyfriend/girlfriend) until roughly the end of 2005.

It sounds as if neither one of you have ever thought of yourselves as married. However, due to the vow that you took with her, I think it would be best to try to make contact with her and she how she is handling this situation in her life.

Marriage, by definition, takes two people. If she, especially as an unbeliever, does not now, nor ever did consider herself married to you, all pieces of paper aside, you're not married. It could very well be that she has long since married (legally) someone else.

Or, maybe, just maybe, she believes herself to be married and would like to have you come back to her. If this is the case,and if you did live as man and wife before, then you should honor the commitment to her.

The piece of paper represents a foolish vow...one that you have repented of, and should now, if you haven't already, ask forgiveness for doing. Should she desire to have you back as her husband, then this time, do not make a foolish vow, but rather honor God with an actual marriage.

But, if she has no desire to get back with you, consider yourself free.