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Mary Omnipotent?

T

thessalonian

Guest
I've run in to statements like the following many times.

But, only a divine being would be able to hear all the prayers being directed from every place on the globe at one time.
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Well then I guess I should start bowing down to some of those servers that hang (I am a software engineer who has a considerable understanding of computers and the internet) on the internet and process billions of messages a second. There are computers capable of processing text the size of a hail mary prayer from every man, woman, and child in the world. I guess then by your reasoning they are Gods? It's not an infinite problem and so does not take an infinite God. I am simply is simply stating that "eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has ready for those who love him.".

By the way do you think you can move a mountain? Well Jesus said that we can.

Matt.21
[21] And Jesus answered them, "Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and never doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will be done.


Does that make us all powerful (omnipotent) God's who should be worshipped. No it simply means we have access to the power of God. Something those in heaven most certainly have access to.

By the way, I once heard on the radio a protestant say about apparitions "Mary is appearing throughout the world simultaneously. Therefore Catholics think she is omnipresent". (I've never heard this from a Catholic source but we'll humor it) Hmmmm. George Bush could potentially be seen on TV sets by every man woman and child on earth if they all had sets. He could be seen and heard on every single point on the planet through TV. Yet we think that the possibilities in heaven are less. "EYE HAS NOT SEEN NOR EAR HEARD WHAT GOD HAS READY FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM" FOLKS

The fact is that we can expect greater things in the next life than this and full access to the power of God. That does not make us god's. These arguements are fallacies.

God bless
 
Hoo-hah.

Sometimes the Muslims are correcrt when they say that Mary is in the Trinity. To see some Roman Catholics go at it, you would certainly think so.

I grew up in a Polish parish. We had 6 Blessed Mothers running across the front of the church: The Pieta, Czestochowa, Lady of the Rosary, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Perpetual Help, and the child Mary. Plus, in the arch over the main altar, the 15 mysteries of the rosary, plus two large oil paintings: the Presentation of the Clhild Mary in the temple, and the portrayed Trinity Crowning her as Queen of Heaven. Kinda excessive, dontcha think? But, I did kinda like the blinking blue lights in the Blessed Mother's halo. :-D
 
Yes, I know your laughing all this off allows you to avoid answering the issues I have raised. Is your thinking (if you could call it that) valid or not steve?
 
No, there will be ONLY ONE God. But, we were created IN HIS IMAGE. I don't believe that it's our 'flesh' that is refered to as this image. I believe that it's the potential and understanding that IS the image. If this 'truly' IS the case, then there is certainly MUCH that we WILL obtain in the 'future' as far as power is concerned. I believe that 'ALL' power is IS understanding. It was stated in Genesis that once man's EYES were opened, that he had become LIKE God in the POTENTIAL for obtained knowledge.

Much like making a clone or even 'having a child'. There IS the possibility of that child having EQUAL understanding of the parents, though their creation will NEVER be the 'same' as themselves.

But, back to the main question. I have NOT found any indication that Mary was raised from the dead or that she was granted ANY 'special' treatment through scripture. All indications are that she was most likely burried like ANYONE else and that her spirit sleeps like the rest. I know that there are statements in The Word that indicate that ALL do not sleep, but there are also others that indicate that they do. I lean towards the 'sleep' concept, for that is 'literally' stated and the statements that indicate otherwise are mostly concerning the 'transfiguration'. That the spostles were given 'sight' of prophets of the past 'indicates' that at least 'these' were NOT asleep. But then we have statements that indicate that 'sleep' IS exactly what happens until 'judgement'.

That would leave Mary in the 'same' place as her great, great................. Grand Father David. And we are told that David is asleep. But, if there is some 'scriptural' proof that Mary is NOT asleep, I would certainly be interested in 'seeing' it.

MEC
 
The fact is that we can expect greater things in the next life than this and full access to the power of God. That does not make us god's. These arguements are fallacies.
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Just a quick question which I will not pursue beyond this and sidetrack the thread, but does this also indicate that any power and authority that Christ has been "given", and may exercise now, does not necessarily indicate that He is God either? I know you would cite other reasons for believing Christ is God but since omnipresent qualities are noted by many Trinitarians as evidence of Christ's deity are you in disagreement with such arguments?
 
Do you people expect that we will be doing greater things than we can imagine on this earth. I can imagine computers being able to handle billions of messages. So can I expect that God can provide us a means far beyond our means on this earth to do such things?
 
thessalonian said:
Do you people expect that we will be doing greater things than we can imagine on this earth. I can imagine computers being able to handle billions of messages. So can I expect that God can provide us a means far beyond our means on this earth to do such things?
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Is that a "yes" to my question or was that not addressed to me?
 
Mary cannot hear your prayer. We know this because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omnipresent (Present in all places at all times), Omniscient (Knowing all things, searching all things), and Omnipotent (unlimited power). Mary is none of the above.

The Holy Spirit, Comforter, teacher, who lives in us, is THE Sovereign distributer of all things, this includes Grace, faith, wisdom, peace, understanding, etc.. Everything that the Catholic church tells you can be achieved through prayer to Mary (which is idolatry) is in fact the ministry of the Holy Spirit, not Mary.

Power of the Holy Ghost, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Power-of...Ghost-The.html

Holy Ghost, the Comforter, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Gho...orter-The.html

Holy Ghost, The Personality of
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Gho...nality-of.html

Holy Ghost, the Teacher, The
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Gho...acher-The.html

Holy Ghost, The, is God
http://www.bible-topics.com/Holy-Ghost-The-is-God.html

Ephesians 3:12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

When we pray in the Spirit (Jude 20), we are praying according to God's will because He gave us our desires (Psalm 37:4), and makes known to our hearts what to pray (Ephesians 6:18).

The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, not Mary.

Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

The only acceptable prayers are through Jesus Christ (in His name).

John 14:13-14 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. (Also see John 15:16, John 16:23-24)

Jesus, in teaching us how to pray and giving us an example, and I stress the word "example" (these are not magical words as in 'open says me'), tells us to pray to the Father, not using vain repetitions. Notice, in His teaching and example, nowhere is Mary mentioned.

Matthew 6:5-13 5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen

In all of scripture that teaches, talks of, or gives examples of prayer, Mary is never mentioned as part of the process.

Prayer
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer.html

Prayer, Answers to
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Answers-to.html

Prayer, Intercessory
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Intercessory.html

Prayer, Private
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Private.html

Prayer, Public
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-Public.html

Prayer, Social and Family
http://www.bible-topics.com/Prayer-S...nd-Family.html

In Christ

Dave
 
Mary cannot hear your prayer. We know this because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Omnipresent (Present in all places at all times), Omniscient (Knowing all things, searching all things), and Omnipotent (unlimited power). Mary is none of the above.
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This is hilliarious dave. You apparently did not read the op of this thread. God back and read it. We do not claim in any way that Mary is any of these things. She does not need to be to meet the criterion of our doctrine. Your just trumpeting the same anti-catholic propoganda that is easily refuted. A computer is not omnicient or omnipresnet either. Yet there are some that have the potential to receive messages from every single person in the whole world. And we have not even come close to creating the fastest computer in the whole world. Shall I bow down to my PC dave? Is it omnipresent? Engage your mind dave.
 
Steve said:
Hoo-hah.

Sometimes the Muslims are correcrt when they say that Mary is in the Trinity. To see some Roman Catholics go at it, you would certainly think so.

I grew up in a Polish parish. We had 6 Blessed Mothers running across the front of the church: The Pieta, Czestochowa, Lady of the Rosary, Immaculate Heart of Mary, Perpetual Help, and the child Mary. Plus, in the arch over the main altar, the 15 mysteries of the rosary, plus two large oil paintings: the Presentation of the Clhild Mary in the temple, and the portrayed Trinity Crowning her as Queen of Heaven. Kinda excessive, dontcha think? But, I did kinda like the blinking blue lights in the Blessed Mother's halo. :-D
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The Muslims are not right at all period.
 
Certainly NOT.

False god; false book; false prophet.

But, not to the late ecumaniac, syncretistic Pope, who kissed the Koran in the mosque of Rome, thereby giving veneration to this bloody book of cruelty and its painting of a false Jesus.

No they are NOT right. :o
 
Steve said:
Certainly NOT.

False god; false book; false prophet.

But, not to the late ecumaniac, syncretistic Pope, who kissed the Koran in the mosque of Rome, thereby giving veneration to this bloody book of cruelty and its painting of a false Jesus.

No they are NOT right. :o
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You disagree completely with everything that the Moselms you have met believe? Ever met one that has believed it is wrong to steal? I have and I hope you would. Ever met one that agreed that it is wrong to covet your neighbors wife? I have and I agree with him. He most definitely was not wrong in this regard.

If you will look at the moslem culture, kissing in their culture is not the same as it is in ours. It honors the giver rather than the gift. Now I think the kiss was inadvisable but nevertheless we must recognize the dignity of all men, even if they are Moslem.

Your post shows you don't even understand Ecumenism in Catholic teaching. There is no ecumenism with nonChristians. Ecumenism is the dialogue between Catholics and other Christians as defined in the Decree on Ecumenism which JP II full well understood. Dialogue between Catholicis and non-Christians is called "religous dialogue". But thanks for stopping by.

Thess
 
Alright guys let's try focus this conversation. All of your views are correct and all of mine are wrong concering the Bible just for the sake of arguement. Does that make any logical arguement you use correct? Is it good to use a bad arguement to come to a proper conclusion? Is one justified in bearing false witness against another's religion because one has the "right theology" (hypothetically speaking)?

Now please deal with the OP. If Mary heard ever single prayer by every single human being would she be omnipresent or omniscient? I.e. is in an infinite problem or a finite one? Is a computer that could recieve messages from every single man, woman, and child on the plannet nearly simultaneously, a God?

Final question. Do we know what man is capable of in the afterlife (hint:eye has not seen, nor ear heard, what God has ready for those who love him)

Be honest guys. Thanks.

Blessings
 
Though I don't agree with it, Catholics mention that they are praying for intecessory like I would ask you 'Could you pray for me, please?' Though the devotion goes quite further beyond that, IMO, I don't know why Protestants don't accept that.

The problem and the issue is what Imagican has brought up. If Mary is treated like everyone else according to the scripture and is awaiting resurrection to life, then there is no need to pray to her or any other saint. The hard facts support that she is not in heaven at all.

But if she were, then Catholics are justified in their devotion!
So go ahead Thess! I support you all the way because Protestants have no excuse NOT to recognize prayers to Mary. Such is the fruit of the 'immortality of the soul' heresy. That is their bed they adopted from the Catholics, that should be the bed they sleep in.

Quit criticizing Marian devotion, folks. Acccording to the 'immortality of the soul' argument, Catholics have every right to pray for her intercessation.
You should be doing so too. If I believed that she was in heaven and was 'blessed', I would want her praying for me too.

BTW, some of my favorite choral pieces are filled with Marian devotion. Let me tell you that is hard for an SDA choral director to accept! :lol: I could do them anyway...they are all in Latin, nobody will know the difference!
 
They believe that Jesus will one day be KING of this world.............

MEC
 
jgredline said:
thessalonian said:
Lewis W said:
The Muslims are not right at all period.
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There is absolutely nothing true in the Moslem religion?
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AMEN there is nothing good about islam
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It is sad when Christians look with such eyes upon the other religions of the world, rather than taking Paul's lead in Acts 17 in the aeropogus and looking for some thread of truth in the religions of men that they can leverage in an explanation of Jesus Christ. That is what Paul did in Acts 17. He even quoted their pagan sages, "in him we live and move and have our being". Was that not a truth in the pagan writings? Yes it was. Now I ask again, do you think there is absolutely no truth in Islam that you can use to help explain Christ to them? Open your mind just a bit.
 
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