jgredline
Member
ahimsaman72 said:
Woody
I appreciate your taking the time to try and explain this to me. I will tell you though, that I agree with Heidi on this. As you alluded to, lets look at that part of scripture in context.
Rev 8:1-6 to grab the entire context.
When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Re 8:1-6).
Now lets take a look at what this part of scripture means to the best of my understanding.
After the parenthesis of chapter 7, in which we saw two companies of Tribulation saints, we now come to the seventh and final seal. This is introduced by a thirty-minute silence in heaven, an awesome hush which precedes ever-deepening judgments.
8:2 No specific judgment is mentioned when the seventh seal is broken. The narrative moves directly to seven trumpet judgments. From this we infer that the seventh seal consists of the seven trumpets.
8:3, 4 The angel in this verse is often understood to be the Lord Jesus. He is called the Angel of Jehovah in the OT. The prayers of all the saints ascend to the Father through Him (Eph. 2:18) not Mary or any other saint. By the way, If Jesus Christ is your lord and saviuor, you are a saint. Ok, back to the story. He takes much incense to offer it with the prayers. The incense speaks of the fragrance of His Person and work. By the time the prayers reach God the Father, they are perfectly flawless and perfectly effectual.
In the context, the prayers are those of Tribulation saints, beseeching God to punish their enemies, although the order is true of all prayer.
8:5 In answer to their prayers, the angel ... threw flaming coals to the earth, causing loud explosions, thunderings, lightnings and an earthquake. As H. B. Swete says, “The prayers of the saints return to the earth in wrath.†17 Thus the seven trumpet judgments are introduced with violent disturbances of nature.
8:6 We have now come to the middle of the Tribulation. These trumpet judgments take us on to the time when Christ descends to the earth, destroys His foes, and ushers in His kingdom. The first four judgments affect man’s natural environment; the last three affect man himself. Many commentators note the resemblance between these plagues and the ones which fell on Egypt.
Ok woody, now lets move on to the next verse you used to plead your case.
Rev:5-7,8
As soon as the Lamb took the judgment roll out of the right hand of God the Father, the living creatures and elders prostrated themselves before the Lamb. Each had a harp and golden bowls full of incense, representing the prayers of the saints, most likely the prayers of martyrs crying to God to avenge their blood (see rev 6:10). Though they handled the prayers, there is no suggestion that they presented them to God or had any part in answering them.
So really, I do know that the RCC and CC have used these verses to justify the worship of Idols, but I don't see it. Now I will admit that my Knowledge of the book of Revelation is my weakest point in the Holy scriptures from Gen to Rev, I have studied it and looked at it quite a bit.
I am trying to understand where all this Mary worship came from.
Please help me to understand.
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