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Bible Study Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless

ugmug

Member
Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless

Many people believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is sinless. This cannot be true simply because of the events at the cross when Jesus hung on the cross and was near death. Just before Jesus died he looked down and said …..

John 19:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

Notice that Jesus called his mother 'woman' in exact same way that Adam called Eve right after her creation from the rib of Adam (hint: Adam renamed the 'woman' as 'Eve' after their sin – Eve was named twice). When Adam named God's created companion for him as 'woman' Adam gave an explanation saying … “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” (Genesis 2:22-23).

Since Jesus is God become man, and Jesus is called the last, or second, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-49), then by Jesus calling Mary as 'woman' he is stating the fact that Mary was created by Jesus Christ when Jesus, as the son of God, created both Adam and Eve. When Jesus called Mary 'woman' Jesus was establishing the fact that Jesus created Mary, and not the other way around!

Then Jesus refers to Mary as 'mother' when he is talking to the disciple on the cross and says, “Here is your mother.” (John 19:27). Notice that Adam renamed the 'woman' as Eve after their sin along with another explanation.... “Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.” (Genesis 3:20). The important point is that once Jesus became sin for us on the cross he now referred to Mary as 'mother' signifying that both Jesus Christ (hint: as the second Adam) and Mary were now equally in a state of sin as were both Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden just before their expulsion. (hint: Death could not come to Jesus Christ until he was made sin for us on the cross, for the penalty for sin is death)

If Mary were truly sinless then Jesus would never have referred to her as 'mother' for Adam referred to Eve as 'mother' only when they were both full of sin from eating of the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since Jesus Christ is God become man then Jesus cannot speak an untruth even when he became sin for us on the cross therefore by calling Mary 'mother' it establishes the fact that Mary is not sinless!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who took upon himself all of our sins in order to offer us forgiveness. A forgiveness that will last throughout eternity for all those who believe in God's son Jesus Christ, who is God become man, and we'll all be together with God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit in heaven forever.

God Bless

note:

Adam Named Eve Twice

It is interesting that Adam named Eve twice. When Adam named Eve as 'woman' she was an individual so Adam had dominion over only one woman.

But when they both sinned Adam lost dominion over the earth and also lost dominion over the 'woman'. But after God meted out punishment for their sin Adam renamed the 'women' as Eve - the mother of all the living - and reestablished his dominion over God's created companion.

Adam was allowed to reestablish his dominion because the women was created from the rib of Adam. But noticed that he called her 'mother' - the mother of all the living - which meant that Adam was declaring dominion over her and ALL her offspring.

By Adam declaring dominion over the entire race of men and women this allowed Jesus Christ to also reestablish dominion over the entire race of mankind when God became man in the person of Jesus Christ and became the last, or second, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-49).

By Adam renaming the 'woman' as Eve Adam made possible for Jesus Christ to regain dominion over mankind and therefore offer everyone the same salvation that was accomplished on the cross.

Without the renaming of 'woman' as Eve - the mother of all the living - by Adam, then God could only save Adam and the woman and nobody else!

Amen
 
Mary, the Mother of Jesus the Son of God was just a simple woman engaged to Joseph. God chose her to bear the Son of God. We all admire this great woman of God. After Jesus' birth, she went on to have more children. Sinless? No! That's why we can know that our God could use any of us to do the impossible for Him even today.
 
Mary Is Not Sinless
Are you implying that Mary is not in heaven, or that she was not born of God?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
 
Having children in wedlock is not a sin.. Sex in marriage is not sin.. that saying .... Mary was special because she was chosen she was not chosen because she was special..
We protestants have not shown her enough respect... others elevate her to a point that is disrespectful
 
Are you implying that Mary is not in heaven, or that she was not born of God?

Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Eugene, if you will allow me to speak for my friend Ugmug, I didn't feel that he was implying that Mary is not in Heaven because she was not sinless. She inherited the sin nature from Adam as soon as she was born, no different than you and me. I do believe that Mary was an exceptionally holy woman in thought and actions. Mary was hand picked by God prior to her birth according to Ephesians one....
Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us (Mary) in him before the foundation of the world, that we (Mary) should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1:5 Having predestinated us (Mary) unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"
(Parenthesis of Mary are my addition.)

I have a huge amount of admiration and respect at how this simple woman responded to Gabriel the Angel....
Luke 1:26 "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
1:37 For with God nothing shall be impossible.
1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.


Wow, this account still blesses my heart at how Mary responded to Gabriel. What a special, special woman of God. Even so, she needed forgiveness for any sins that she committed just like the rest of us. The problem with elevating Mary to a position equal to Christ Jesus is a major false teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Wow, this account still blesses my heart at how Mary responded to Gabriel. What a special, special woman of God.
Yes Brother Chopper, and thank you. I thought I understood what Brother ugmug meant, but with different denominations the interpretation must be very clear.

We read in Luk 1:28, And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured (Grace given to Mary by God), the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. Our dear Sister Mary was made sinless by the death of our Savior just as we are, and that is by believing on Him.
 
2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless

Many people believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is sinless. This cannot be true simply because of the events at the cross when Jesus hung on the cross and was near death. Just before Jesus died he looked down and said …..
John 19:26-27 New International Version (NIV)
26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” 27 and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

Notice that Jesus called his mother 'woman' in exact same way that Adam called Eve right after her creation from the rib of Adam (hint: Adam renamed the 'woman' as 'Eve' after their sin – Eve was named twice). When Adam named God's created companion for him as 'woman' Adam gave an explanation saying … “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” (Genesis 2:22-23).

Since Jesus is God become man, and Jesus is called the last, or second, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-49), then by Jesus calling Mary as 'woman' he is stating the fact that Mary was created by Jesus Christ when Jesus, as the son of God, created both Adam and Eve. When Jesus called Mary 'woman' Jesus was establishing the fact that Jesus created Mary, and not the other way around!

Then Jesus refers to Mary as 'mother' when he is talking to the disciple on the cross and says, “Here is your mother.” (John 19:27). Notice that Adam renamed the 'woman' as Eve after their sin along with another explanation.... “Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.” (Genesis 3:20). The important point is that once Jesus became sin for us on the cross he now referred to Mary as 'mother' signifying that both Jesus Christ (hint: as the second Adam) and Mary were now equally in a state of sin as were both Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden just before their expulsion. (hint: Death could not come to Jesus Christ until he was made sin for us on the cross, for the penalty for sin is death)

If Mary were truly sinless then Jesus would never have referred to her as 'mother' for Adam referred to Eve as 'mother' only when they were both full of sin from eating of the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since Jesus Christ is God become man then Jesus cannot speak an untruth even when he became sin for us on the cross therefore by calling Mary 'mother' it establishes the fact that Mary is not sinless!

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who took upon himself all of our sins in order to offer us forgiveness. A forgiveness that will last throughout eternity for all those who believe in God's son Jesus Christ, who is God become man, and we'll all be together with God the Father, God the Son Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit in heaven forever.

God Bless

note:

Adam Named Eve Twice

It is interesting that Adam named Eve twice. When Adam named Eve as 'woman' she was an individual so Adam had dominion over only one woman.

But when they both sinned Adam lost dominion over the earth and also lost dominion over the 'woman'. But after God meted out punishment for their sin Adam renamed the 'women' as Eve - the mother of all the living - and reestablished his dominion over God's created companion.

Adam was allowed to reestablish his dominion because the women was created from the rib of Adam. But noticed that he called her 'mother' - the mother of all the living - which meant that Adam was declaring dominion over her and ALL her offspring.

By Adam declaring dominion over the entire race of men and women this allowed Jesus Christ to also reestablish dominion over the entire race of mankind when God became man in the person of Jesus Christ and became the last, or second, Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45-49).

By Adam renaming the 'woman' as Eve Adam made possible for Jesus Christ to regain dominion over mankind and therefore offer everyone the same salvation that was accomplished on the cross.

Without the renaming of 'woman' as Eve - the mother of all the living - by Adam, then God could only save Adam and the woman and nobody else!

Amen

Ugmug
You're post shows much thought. Will be reading it again tomorrow morning when I'm more awake.

Just want to add that Jesus also called Mary "woman" at the Miracle at Cana in John 2:4 and He sounded pretty harsh at this time.

The Catholic church says that Mary was sinless because their theology states that Jesus could not be birthed by a woman having the sin nature. IOW, a sinful body should not be allowed to hold within it the Son of God who is sinless. So they grapple with this question: WHEN did she become sinless? Before she was conceived, after she was conceived but before she was born, or just after she was born. When you stray from scripture, the questions become many and complicated.

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God apparently does not include Mary.

Also, she herself says that she needs a savior. Luke 1:47
I do find verse 48 very interesting since, indeed, that has happened. Luke 1:48

That denomination does say that Mary contributed in some way to the sacrifice made by Jesus by being at the foot of the cross and for all her suffering. They are also coming dangerously close to calling her a co-redemptrix unless that changes this year.

BTW, she is called the Mother of us all. Or the Mother of the church.

I agree with Chopper. All honor to Mary. She raised Jesus. She was at the foot of the cross. What more could be said? But she is not to be worshipped - it belittles the Lord.

W
 
If (haha) when this thread turns to totally bash RCC it will be closed... Keep this in mind as you post.. ADMIN
 
lax_logo.png
 
Ugmug
You're post shows much thought. Will be reading it again tomorrow morning when I'm more awake.

Just want to add that Jesus also called Mary "woman" at the Miracle at Cana in John 2:4 and He sounded pretty harsh at this time.

The Catholic church says that Mary was sinless because their theology states that Jesus could not be birthed by a woman having the sin nature. IOW, a sinful body should not be allowed to hold within it the Son of God who is sinless. So they grapple with this question: WHEN did she become sinless? Before she was conceived, after she was conceived but before she was born, or just after she was born. When you stray from scripture, the questions become many and complicated.

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God apparently does not include Mary.

Also, she herself says that she needs a savior. Luke 1:47
I do find verse 48 very interesting since, indeed, that has happened. Luke 1:48

That denomination does say that Mary contributed in some way to the sacrifice made by Jesus by being at the foot of the cross and for all her suffering. They are also coming dangerously close to calling her a co-redemptrix unless that changes this year.

BTW, she is called the Mother of us all. Or the Mother of the church.

I agree with Chopper. All honor to Mary. She raised Jesus. She was at the foot of the cross. What more could be said? But she is not to be worshipped - it belittles the Lord.

W

I find your response very, very good. You have said what I wish I could have said. I simply love your responses to various posts. I always learn something refreshing from your anointed mind Dear Sister. I certainly am honored to call you my Sister and friend. I'm really interested in how long you've been saved. Your knowledge of the Scriptures impresses me very much....Love You!:hug
 
Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless

I have read what follows. It is void of logic.
Sorry! :shrug

Many people believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is sinless.
Many do. The scriptures do not.
The scriptures do report her being addressed by the archangel Gabriel as; "Highly Favored One." (Luke 1:28 NKJV)

This cannot be true simply because of the events at the cross when Jesus hung on the cross and was near death. Just before Jesus died he looked down and said …..
John 19:26-27 New International Version (NIV) When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
Notice that Jesus called his mother 'woman' in exact same way that Adam called Eve right after her creation from the rib of Adam

A more proper rendering of "woman", both here and at John 2:4, would be "dear woman" since He was addressing His mother with the respect due to a parent as prescribed by the law of Moses. (Ex 20:12) It was certainly not anything like the use of the word in a sentence like; "Hey woman; bring me a beer!" It was reflective of the love and honor with which a devout Jewish son would properly address his mother.

What Jesus was doing was insuring that His mother would be properly provided for after His death. (It is also an indication that there were no other "brothers" to whom Mary's welfare might be entrusted as it would have been the next oldest brother's responsibility to do so. But, that's another topic.)

When Jesus called Mary 'woman' Jesus was establishing the fact that Jesus created Mary, and not the other way around!

Why would He need to establish such a "fact" when, by the time of John's writing, there was no question whatsoever as to who was the creator and who the creature?

The important point is that once Jesus became sin for us on the cross he now referred to Mary as 'mother' signifying that both Jesus Christ (hint: as the second Adam) and Mary were now equally in a state of sin as were both Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden just before their expulsion. (hint: Death could not come to Jesus Christ until he was made sin for us on the cross, for the penalty for sin is death)
1. Jesus was never in a state of sin. He bore OUR sins for us and suffered the consequence of OUR sins (death) for us in order that He might destroy the power of death to hold mankind in the grave. By His death and resurrection, He removed the sting of sin.

1Co 15:51-57 (NKJV) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
2. Jesus' death on the cross was established from the moment of creation. (Rev 13:8)

3. Death is not the "penalty" for sin; it is the consequence of sin. Scripture says, "The WAGES" of sin is death.." (Rom 6:23) not, "the "penalty" for sin is death..." God does not kill us because we sin. God is not the author of death; He is the author of Life.
Through sin, one separates himself from God Who is the only being Who has life by nature. When we sin we separate ourselves from God, in whom there is life, and we die as a consequence of having caused that separation from life because of our disobedience.

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, He said "...in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Gen2:17" NKJV) He did NOT say " ...in the day that you eat of it I shall surely kill you.".

If Mary were truly sinless then Jesus would never have referred to her as 'mother' for Adam referred to Eve as 'mother' only when they were both full of sin from eating of the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Since Jesus Christ is God become man then Jesus cannot speak an untruth even when he became sin for us on the cross therefore by calling Mary 'mother' it establishes the fact that Mary is not sinless!
All that Jesus established by addressing Mary as "woman" is that he was concerned for her welfare as a proper son would be.
Your conclusions are a leap too far.
Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who took upon himself all of our sins in order to offer us forgiveness.
Jesus' death was not necessary for God to forgive; God has always forgiven sin.
Psa 32:1 (NKJV) Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered.
2Ch 7:14(NKJV) “if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
[/QUOTE]
What Jesus did by His death and resurrect was destroy the devil's plan to destroy mankind by getting them to sin and die and return to dust forever as a consequence of their sin.

iakov the fool
 
I have read what follows. It is void of logic.
Sorry! :shrug


Many do. The scriptures do not.
The scriptures do report her being addressed by the archangel Gabriel as; "Highly Favored One." (Luke 1:28 NKJV)



A more proper rendering of "woman", both here and at John 2:4, would be "dear woman" since He was addressing His mother with the respect due to a parent as prescribed by the law of Moses. (Ex 20:12) It was certainly not anything like the use of the word in a sentence like; "Hey woman; bring me a beer!" It was reflective of the love and honor with which a devout Jewish son would properly address his mother.

What Jesus was doing was insuring that His mother would be properly provided for after His death. (It is also an indication that there were no other "brothers" to whom Mary's welfare might be entrusted as it would have been the next oldest brother's responsibility to do so. But, that's another topic.)



Why would He need to establish such a "fact" when, by the time of John's writing, there was no question whatsoever as to who was the creator and who the creature?


1. Jesus was never in a state of sin. He bore OUR sins for us and suffered the consequence of OUR sins (death) for us in order that He might destroy the power of death to hold mankind in the grave. By His death and resurrection, He removed the sting of sin.

1Co 15:51-57 (NKJV) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written:
“Death is swallowed up in victory.”
“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ
.
2. Jesus' death on the cross was established from the moment of creation. (Rev 13:8)

3. Death is not the "penalty" for sin; it is the consequence of sin. Scripture says, "The WAGES" of sin is death.." (Rom 6:23) not, "the "penalty" for sin is death..." God does not kill us because we sin. God is not the author of death; He is the author of Life.
Through sin, one separates himself from God Who is the only being Who has life by nature. When we sin we separate ourselves from God, in whom there is life, and we die as a consequence of having caused that separation from life because of our disobedience.

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree, He said "...in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Gen2:17" NKJV) He did NOT say " ...in the day that you eat of it I shall surely kill you.".


All that Jesus established by addressing Mary as "woman" is that he was concerned for her welfare as a proper son would be.
Your conclusions are a leap too far.

Jesus' death was not necessary for God to forgive; God has always forgiven sin.
Psa 32:1 (NKJV) Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered.
2Ch 7:14(NKJV) “if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
What Jesus did by His death and resurrect was destroy the devil's plan to destroy mankind by getting them to sin and die and return to dust forever as a consequence of their sin.

iakov the fool[/QUOTE]

Very well said my friend. Your defense of Mary is admirable. Thank you for an accurate post about this very remarkable Servant of the most high God, Jehovah our Elohim.
 
What Jesus did by His death and resurrect was destroy the devil's plan to destroy mankind by getting them to sin and die and return to dust forever as a consequence of their sin.

iakov the fool

Very well said my friend. Your defense of Mary is admirable. Thank you for an accurate post about this very remarkable Servant of the most high God, Jehovah our Elohim.[/QUOTE]
You're very welcome. Thank you for the pat on the head.:)
 
Mary Was Called Mother – Therefore Mary Is Not Sinless
It would be more accurate to say that since Mary belonged to the human race, she was not exempt from sin and death. But since she was a believer, she will be perfected with all the other saints. Perhaps you are thinking of the doctrine of Immaculate Conception (which makes Mary sinless), but there is nothing is Scripture regarding this.
 
It would be more accurate to say that since Mary belonged to the human race, she was not exempt from sin and death.
I Agree.
But since she was a believer, she will be perfected with all the other saints.
The Church's tradition (not scripture) is that she has already been perfected and her body taken into heaven. I have no good reason to challenge that tradition.
Perhaps you are thinking of the doctrine of Immaculate Conception (which makes Mary sinless), but there is nothing is Scripture regarding this.
No. I reject that doctrine. It actually detracts from her honor by removing from her the need to struggle against the temptations with which all of mankind is tempted. If she didn't have to struggle, where is the honor? It would be like honoring someone for winning a tournament in which there were no opponents.
 
I stand firm Jesus was 100% holy spirit life seed. Born of Gods seed alone, not dust like Adam.

I dont know what others think, do people think he was holy spirit that fertilised Marys egg or something?. Like a half man half God being.
 
I stand firm Jesus was 100% holy spirit life seed. Born of Gods seed alone, not dust like Adam.

I dont know what others think, do people think he was holy spirit that fertilised Marys egg or something?. Like a half man half God being.
Exactly. The Holy Spirit caused Mary to bring forth human life from her womb in the same manner in which the Holy Spirit brought forth life from the formless and void earth in the beginning. (That's why we see the striking similarity of language between Genesis 1:2 and Luke 1:35.) The Holy Spirit used the "formless and void" material of the earth to bring forth life and he used the "formless" material in the "void" of Mary's womb to bring forth the one is whom is Life.

An ovum is the starting point or human life. The Holy Spirit caused one to begin the process of life.

If Jesus is 100% Holy Spirit life seed then He was not both God and Man.

If Jesus was not God then he could not rise from the dead and destroy the power of death.
If Jesus was not man (from Mary's flesh) then He could not die.

Jesus was incarnate of the Holy Spirit AND the Virgin Mary.

Otherwise, why bother the poor girl? :shrug
 
I find your response very, very good. You have said what I wish I could have said. I simply love your responses to various posts. I always learn something refreshing from your anointed mind Dear Sister. I certainly am honored to call you my Sister and friend. I'm really interested in how long you've been saved. Your knowledge of the Scriptures impresses me very much....Love You!:hug
Over 40 years Chopper.
You say such nice things.
The honor is all mine.

W
 
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