Materialistic Christians

[gingercat]

Jesus lived humbly. Why can't we give as much as we should as His followers? We always talk about love. One of the biggest aspects of love is giving. If we cannot help other brethren in need we are not being loving. . If we live like secular world we cannot be geneous givers because everything is costly in free world.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matt 19:24

Most of us don't realize how rich we are. According to Jesus, most of us can't enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Great post!

Giving should be second nature to a Believer.

The first believers in ACTS gave all they had to the cause and lived in what could almost be a "communist" environment. Of course not the kind we see today with the godlessness and killing....

In fact God struck dead a couple that held back from giving all they had!

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus lived humbly. Why can't we give as much as we should as His followers? We always talk about love. One of the biggest aspects of love is giving. If we cannot help other brethren in need we are not being loving. . If we live like secular world we cannot be geneous givers because everything is costly in free world.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Matt 19:24

Most of us don't realize how rich we are. According to Jesus, most of us can't enter the kingdom of God.

Perhaps a couple of points that need to be kept in perspective.

The statement about the rich man stems from a conversation that Jesus was having with him. This man wanted to know what he needed to do in order to receive eternal life. Jesus response to him was to keep the commandments. Now being a law abiding man, he replied that he had kept all of the commandment that Jesus said he needed to keep. So again he asks Jesus, "What do I still lack?" And at this point Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

So what was Jesus saying? What is it that makes man perfect? What is it that is required in order that man may be righteous in God’s sight? Faith!

Now we need to remember that this man was a Jew, under the law – and that is the reason that Jesus laid down the prerequisite of keeping the law.

However, for those who are in Christ the law is fulfilled. These, who are born of the spirit, have the law written on their hearts. So in the same manner that Jesus required the man under the law to divest himself of his wealth, in order that his reliance on God may be evident, so are those who are born of the spirit required to walk in faith. Anything that becomes more important than Christ to such a person, causes them to take their eyes of Him. As the scripture says, "where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

And so it is evident that it is not just monetary wealth that can keep us from a walk of faith. It is any ‘treasure’ that can cause us to turn from our reliance (faith) in God. And again the scripture tells us ‘that which is without faith is sin.’

So it is not what ‘wealth’ we have that will keep us self reliant. It is the hearts attitude toward it that matters. And that is why it is not impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[gingercat]

Ed,

That's the many churches interpretation. I totally disagree. Your interpretation is just an excuse IMHO.

There are many persectuted Christians can use rich chirstians help like us, but we are failing to meet their need miserably.

I was in prison and you did not vistit. : : :

 

[Packrat]

In fact God struck dead a couple that held back from giving all they had!

Were you referring to the husband and wife that were presenting gifts to God, but were lying to him about further wealth that they had? If so, I think they were killed because they were lying to God - not necessarily because they were withholding anything I think.

Anyway, just to air some of my own grievances...

I dislike it when Christians - in an argument they are losing or in tight situations where another is offending them - say, "I hope you find Jesus." or "You need Jesus." or "I will pray for you." or "God bless you." I don't believe I've ever had this happen to me, but it seems so artificial. If you're mad at the person, DON'T SPEAK. Just relax. By saying these things, you're only patronizing them and not helping at all. DON'T say, "I'll pray for you." But rather do it silently instead. And while you're at it - pray for yourself.

If you truly feel the person needs Christ, then treat them as you would like to be treated. The best way to preach is by example through your own life. Give them respect even if they don't give you any. Stay away from self-righteousness; I hate it. If your faith is failing, take into consideration their opinion, but perhaps you can let them know that you'd like to further research the subject at hand.

I once saw a preacher on TV yell back at someone who was insulting him, "God BLESS YOU!" He said it with a complacent and patronizing tone - almost as if it were a curse word because he may have been cursing in his heart. Who knows. Just a suggestion.

 

[gingercat]

? If so, I think they were killed because they were lying to God - not necessarily because they were withholding anything I think

end of quote,

You are right packrat,

My point is that we wealthy Christians are failing miserably for the needy Christians overseas. That is far from generouse and kind and loving Jesus' teachings.

 

[Gary]

Many Christians very quickly quote John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

We should all look more carefully at 1 John 3:16-18 ....

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

.... and do what is required. Action, not words.

 

[Duder]

In fact God struck dead a couple that held back from giving all they had!

Were you referring to the husband and wife that were presenting gifts to God, but were lying to him about further wealth that they had? If so, I think they were killed because they were lying to God - not necessarily because they were withholding anything I think.

Anyway, just to air some of my own grievances...

I dislike it when Christians - in an argument they are losing or in tight situations where another is offending them - say, "I hope you find Jesus." or "You need Jesus." or "I will pray for you." or "God bless you." I don't believe I've ever had this happen to me, but it seems so artificial. If you're mad at the person, DON'T SPEAK. Just relax. By saying these things, you're only patronizing them and not helping at all. DON'T say, "I'll pray for you." But rather do it silently instead. And while you're at it - pray for yourself.

If you truly feel the person needs Christ, then treat them as you would like to be treated. The best way to preach is by example through your own life. Give them respect even if they don't give you any. Stay away from self-righteousness; I hate it. If your faith is failing, take into consideration their opinion, but perhaps you can let them know that you'd like to further research the subject at hand.

I once saw a preacher on TV yell back at someone who was insulting him, "God BLESS YOU!" He said it with a complacent and patronizing tone - almost as if it were a curse word because he may have been cursing in his heart. Who knows. Just a suggestion.

Greetings, Packrat -

I know you and I are a couple of noobies here, but I gotta tell ya - you need to be a moderator in these fora. That was the best post I have seen in a month of Sundays.

Blessings,

Duder.

 

[gingercat]

Many Christians very quickly quote John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

We should all look more carefully at 1 John 3:16-18 ....

This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.

.... and do what is required. Action, not words.

Amen, God bless you Gary :angel:

 

[thessalonian]

Ginger, you make all the churchgoers out to be evil and all the pastors of Chruch out to be evil. Your apparent judgement is that everyone should stop going to Church and then they would stop being evil. This is the silliest thing I think I've ever seen on any board i've been on. I'm just being honest here. I can't believe that someone who calls themselves a Christian is trying to convince people not to go to Church. This is like someone who is homosexual trying to convince Christians they should approve of homosexuality and actually become gay themselves. It's beyond ludicrous. My perception is that you want people to be like you to justify your position of not going to Church. Your wrong hun.

 

[gingercat]

Thess,

The Bible tells us to look for the fruit to make judgement. That's what I do. I have observed over 30 years to come to this conclusion and Billy Graham's statement backs up my convictions. He says that most of the churchgoers are not committed Christians.

How can you be fruitful if you are not committed? Following Jesus is not easy. Most churches are making it sound so easy and that is lie.

We are all going to be judged by our convictions. I do what I have to do and you do what you have to do.

Cowardly is the first one on the list of sins. If I don't speak up my convictions, Jesus will call me coward.

The churches are huge organizations, we house churches are super minority.

The narrow is the road that leads to life and only a few find it.

You believe and preach that organized churches is the only way. I will go along with that if you don't have such disgraceful reputation. Your disgraceful reputation is your fruit.

In orders to keep organized churches, you have to wash down the Truth because most of the churchgoers are not interested in following His teachings.

You also keep avoiding that the Bible tells us to have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness.

My conclusion comes from reading the Bible and following Jesus; not just studying and memorizing the Bible.

 

[thessalonian]

My conclusion comes from reading the Bible and following Jesus; not just studying and memorizing the Bible.

In otherwords your winging it.

"trust not in your own understandg" prov 3:5
"I will give you shepherds after my own heart who will give you knowledge and understanding" Jer 3:15.

So my fruits are those in the Catholic Church who have done evil? Paul never told those in Corinthians to leave the Church because there was someone doing evil in it. John never told those he spoke to in revelations to go off and do a "house church". You twist and distort the Bible so that it justifies your errors. You attack Churches based on very limited information and a lack of understanding of God. Are you without sin? John says you would be a liar if you said no. By your logic I noone should join with you and your little house Church. Your posts are nonsense.

Blessings though

 

[gingercat]

Again thess,


You have responsibility to have good witnesses for Him. The most organized churches in the free countries are failing miserably.

Bad reputation is not a good witness. The Bible tells us not to have anything to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness. I have my house church and my family doesn't have bad reputation. You have good excuses to keep on doing your hypocrisy by saying that you cannot watch everyone becasue you are big. Well, we have to wait and see if Jesus accepts that. I don't believe so.

You keep on speak up for organized churches and I will keep on speak up for house churches.

My family and I are useful for the Lord since we left organized church. Our offering goes direct to the needs of real Church and not the buildings, church programs expanding of their own denomination and pastors, preachers salaries.

 

[Solo]

Again thess,


You have responsibility to have good witnesses for Him. The most organized churches in the free countries are failing miserably.

Bad reputation is not a good witness. The Bible tells us not to have anything to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness. I have my house church and my family doesn't have bad reputation. You have good excuses to keep on doing your hypocrisy by saying that you cannot watch everyone becasue you are big. Well, we have to wait and see if Jesus accepts that. I don't believe so.

You keep on speak up for organized churches and I will keep on speak up for house churches.

My family and I are useful for the Lord since we left organized church. Our offering goes direct to the needs of real Church and not the buildings, church programs expanding of their own denomination and pastors, preachers salaries.

Your fruits are apparant, and show to be that of selfishness and lacking the love for the brethren. Thank you for continuing to show your fruit so that others can recognize not to follow you into the ditch.

 

[Vic C.]

We are all going to be judged by our convictions. I do what I have to do and you do what you have to do.

Cowardly is the first one on the list of sins. If I don't speak up my convictions, Jesus will call me coward.

:o

Where does it say that? Also, can you give me your understanding of this judgement of believers? What is this judgement for?

One more thing; the topic is materialistic Christians, not "lets beat up on the organized churches". Not all Christian organizations are bad. Look at the "fruit" of the SBC's International Missions Board. http://www.imb.org/core/default.asp

Organizations like them hold a tremendous advantage in the field of "serving" those in need. Who were the first to arrive in the South after "Katrina" hit? Them and the Salvation Army... certainly not the Government. :o

 

[soma]

The people posting on both sides of the debate have shown respect and tolerance. They have enlightened the issue so to speak. Solo you have added nothing and with you negativity I think you are trying to end the discussion. If someone disagrees with you that is no reason to send them to hell.

 

[Solo]

The people posting on both sides of the debate have shown respect and tolerance. They have enlightened the issue so to speak. Solo you have added nothing and with you negativity I think you are trying to end the discussion. If someone disagrees with you that is no reason to send them to hell.

You have a strange concept of hell as you do with most things. I send no one to hell, I only warn them of their choices that will keep them from heaven. You should examine yourself to insure that you are born again, for if you are not, you are on your way to hell. Not that I send you, but that you are too prideful to choose God's way into the Kingdom of God. It is your choice, not mine.

 

[gingercat]

Where does it say that?


end of quote;


Rev 21:8 "But the cowardly, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars. - their place will be in the firery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.

 

[gingercat]

Where does it say that? Also, can you give me your understanding of this judgement of believers? What is this judgement for?


I am here to express my convictions and observations. I have learned a lot since I became Christian and observed churchgoers for over 30 years. Silencing the truth and reality is the most effective way to keeping the evil going. I will not cooperate with the evil deeds. I believe the majority of the chuches are cooperationg with the hypocrisy. That's why I don't join them.

You think what I am doing is judging the believers? Then so be it. I will keep on expressing my convictions. We will know soon enough. If I stop doing what I am doing because others criticize me I cannot follow Jesus.

Satan has million ways to hinder His way.

 

[gingercat]

One more thing; the topic is materialistic Christians, not "lets beat up on the organized churches".

end of quote

I am just responding to the posters. I don't restrict my posts. I am flexible according to the posters response.