Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Materialistic Christians

"with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."


end of quote:


How does God make it possible? By giving him willingness to give it up for His glory!
 
gingercat said:
you are not insinuating that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into heaven.

end of quote:


Not unless you give it up for Him.

Jesus also says that in Lk 14:33 "..who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."
How much does God require that a rich man give up?
How much of your wealth have you given up?
In what ways?
How do you define rich?
Should the rich man give all that he has to the poor, and go and live in a mission?
How much of his wealth did Abraham give up? How much did Abraham give to the Lord?
How much of his wealth did Solomon give up? How much did he give to the Lord?
In America today, what yearly salary or what amount of money makes a Christian rich?

The reason that the LOVE of money is the root of ALL evil is because it has become an idol to those who LOVE it. If an individual LOVES money, then money is an idol to them, and it will keep them from God. Even those who are poor can LOVE money to the point that it is an idol. If you hold a judgment on people that have more wealth than you, and claim that they are "bad" because of it, without knowing their circumstances or God's work in their life, you have let the LOVE of money stand in your way of judging correctly.

Here is an article that you should read and study the verses of scripture that are given http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/poverty.html :

In his article said:

A Biblical View of Wealth

Our materialistic culture is seducing Christians into an economic lifestyle that does not glorify God. The popularity of television programs such as "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" and the veneration of social groups such as the glamorous "yuppies" testify to our society's materialistic values, values that many Christians have adopted.
Even within the Christian community, believers are bombarded with unbiblical views of wealth. At one extreme are those who preach a prosperity gospel of "health and wealth" for all believers. At the other extreme are radical Christians who condemn all wealth and imply that rich Christian is a contradiction in terms.

What, then, is the truly biblical view of wealth? At first glance, the Bible seems to teach that wealth is wrong for Christians. It appears even to condemn the wealthy. After all, both Jesus and the Old Testament prophets preached against materialism and seemed to say at times that true believers cannot possess wealth. If this is so, then all of us in Western society are in trouble, because we are all wealthy by New Testament standards.

But a comprehensive look at the relevant biblical passages quickly reveals that a biblical view of wealth is more complex. In fact, Scripture teaches three basic principles about wealth.

First, wealth itself is not condemned. For example, we read in Genesis 13:2 that Abraham had great wealth. In Job 42:10 we see that God once again blessed Job with material possessions. In Deuteronomy, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes, wealth is seen as evidence of God's blessing (Deut. 8; 28; Prov. 22:2; Eccles. 5:19).

But even though wealth might be an evidence of God's blessing, believers are not to trust in it. Proverbs, Jeremiah, 1 Timothy, and James all teach that the believer should not trust in wealth but in God (Prov. 11:4; 11:28; Jer. 9:23; 1 Tim. 6:17; James 1:11; 5:2).

Second, when wealthy people in the Bible were condemned, they were condemned for the means by which their riches were obtained, not for the riches themselves. The Old Testament prophet Amos railed against the injustice of obtaining wealth through oppression or fraud (4:11; 5:11). Micah spoke out against the unjust scales and light weights with which Israel defrauded the poor (6:1). Neither Amos nor Micah condemned wealth per se; they only denounced the unjust means by which it is sometimes achieved.

Third, Christians should be concerned about the effect wealth can have on our lives. We read in Proverbs 30:8-9 and Hosea 13:6 that wealth often tempts us to forget about God. Wealthy believers may no longer look to God for their provision because they can meet their basic needs. We read in Ecclesiastes 2 and 5 that people who are wealthy cannot really enjoy their wealth. Even billionaires often reflect on the fact that they cannot really enjoy the wealth that they have. Moreover, Proverbs 28:11 and Jeremiah 9:23 warn that wealth often leads to pride and arrogance.

So the Bible does not condemn those who are wealthy. But it does warn us that if God blesses us with wealth, we must keep our priorities straight and guard against the seductive effects of wealth.

Kerby continues:

In his article said:

A Biblical View of Poverty

The Bible classifies the causes of poverty into four different categories. The first cause of poverty is oppression and fraud. In the Old Testament (e.g., Prov. 14:31; 22:7; 28:15) we find that many people were poor because they were oppressed by individuals or governments. Many times, governments established unjust laws or debased the currency, measures that resulted in the exploitation of individuals.
The second cause of poverty is misfortune, persecution, or judgment. In the book of Job we learn that God allowed Satan to test Job by bringing misfortune upon him (1:12-19). Elsewhere in the Old Testament (e.g., Ps. 109:16; Isa. 47:9; Lam. 5:3) we read of misfortune or of God's judgment on a disobedient people. When Israel turned from God's laws, God allowed foreign nations to take them into captivity as a judgment for their disobedience.

The third cause of poverty is laziness, neglect, or gluttony. Proverbs teaches that some people are poor because of improper habits and apathy (10:4; 13:4; 19:15; 20:13; 23:21).

The final cause of poverty is the culture of poverty. Proverbs 10:15 says, "The ruin of the poor is their poverty." Poverty breeds poverty, and the cycle is not easily broken. People who grow up in an impoverished culture usually lack the nutrition and the education that would enable them to be successful in the future.

Poverty and Government

While government should not have to shoulder the entire responsibility for caring for the poor, it must take seriously the statements in Leviticus and Proverbs about defending the poor and fighting oppression. Government must not shirk its God-given responsibility to defend the poor from injustice. If government will not do this, or if the oppression is coming from the government itself, then Christians must exercise their prophetic voice and speak out against governmental abuse and misuse of power.
Government must first establish laws and statutes that prohibit and punish injustice. These laws should have significant penalties and be rigorously enforced so that the poor are not exploited and defrauded. Second, government must provide a legal system that allows for the redress of grievances where plaintiffs can bring their case to court for settlement.

A second sphere for governmental action is in the area of misfortune. Many people slip into poverty through no fault of their own. In these cases, government must help to distribute funds. Unfortunately, the track record of government programs is not very impressive. Before the implementation of many of the Great Society programs, the percentage of people living below the poverty level was 13.6 percent. Twenty years later, the percentage was still 13.6 percent.

We need a welfare system that emphasizes work and initiative and does not foster dependency and laziness. One of the things integral to the Old Testament system and missing in our modern system of welfare is a means test. If people have true needs, we should help them. But when they are lazy and have poor work habits, we should admonish them to improve. Our current welfare system perpetuates poverty by failing to distinguish between those who have legitimate needs and those who need to be admonished in their sin.

Poverty and the Church

The church has the potential to offer some unique solutions to poverty. Yet ever since the depression of the 1930s and the rise of the Great Society programs in the 1960s, the church has tended to abdicate its responsibility toward the poor to the government.
A Cooperative Effort
In the Old Testament, there were two means to help the poor. The first was through the gleaning laws listed in Leviticus 19:9-10 and Deuteronomy 24:19-22. As farmers reaped their crops, they would leave the corners of their fields unharvested, and anything that fell to the ground was left for the poor.

The second method used to help the poor was the tithe. In Leviticus 27:30 we find that the tithe provided funds both for the church and for the poor. The funds were distributed by the priests to those who were truly needy.

In the New Testament, the church also had a role in helping to meet the needs of the poor. In 1 Corinthians 16, Paul talks about a collection that was sent from the churches to the Jerusalem believers. We also find many scriptural admonitions calling for Christians to distribute their resources to others compassionately (2 Cor. 9:7; 1 Tim. 5:9-10; 6:18; James 1:27).

These verses concerning the gleaning laws and the tithe seem to indicate that both the government and the church should be involved in helping the poor. Ideally, the church should be in the vanguard of this endeavor. Unfortunately, the church has neglected its responsibility, and government is now heavily involved in poverty relief.

I believe poverty relief should be a cooperative effort between the government and the church. As I noted above, government can provide solutions to exploitation and oppression by passing and enforcing just laws. It can also provide solutions to economic misfortune through various spending programs. But it cannot solve the problems of poverty by addressing injustice and misfortune alone. Poverty is as much a psychological and spiritual problem as it is an economic problem, and it is in this realm that the church can be most effective. Although salvation is not the sole answer, the church is better equipped than the government to meet the psychological and spiritual needs of poverty-stricken people. Most secular social programs do not place much emphasis on these needs and thus miss an important element in the solution to poverty.

Breaking the Cycle of Poverty

As I stated earlier, one of the causes of poverty is the culture of poverty. People are poor because they are poor. An individual who grows up in a culture of poverty is destined for a life of poverty unless something rather dramatic takes place. Poor nutrition, poor education, poor work habits, and poor family relationships can easily condemn an individual to perpetual poverty.
Here is where the church can provide some answers. First, in the area of capital investment, churches should develop a mercies fund to help those in need. Christians should reach out to those in poverty by distributing their own financial resources and by supporting ministries working in this area. Such an outreach provides churches with a mechanism to meet the physical needs of the poor as well as a context to meet their spiritual needs.

A second solution is for Christians to use their gifts and abilities to help those caught in the web of poverty. Doctors can provide health care. Educators can provide literacy and remedial reading programs. Businesspeople can impart job skills.

This kind of social involvement can also provide opportunities for evangelism. Social action and evangelism often work hand in hand. When we meet people's needs, we often open up opportunities to reach them for Jesus Christ.

This leads to a third solution. Christian involvement can lead to spiritual conversion. By bringing these people into a relationship with Jesus Christ, we can break the culture of poverty. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that we become new creatures in Jesus Christ. Being born again can improve attitudes and family relationships. It can give new direction and the ability to overcome handicaps and hardships.

A fourth area of Christian involvement is to call people to their biblical task. Proverbs 6:6 says, "Go to the ant, you sluggard, observe her ways and be wise"; we see here that we are to admonish laziness and poor habits that lead to poverty. In the New

Testament, Paul reminds the Thessalonians of their church rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Thess. 3:10). Christians should gently but firmly admonish those whose poverty is the result of poor work habits to begin taking responsibility for their own lives.

The church can help those addicted to alcohol or other drugs to overcome their dependencies. Christians can work to heal broken families. Dealing with these root causes will help solve the poverty problem.
 
How much does God require that a rich man give up?
How much of your wealth have you given up?
In what ways?
How do you define rich?
Should the rich man give all that he has to the poor, and go and live in a mission?
How much of his wealth did Abraham give up? How much did Abraham give to the Lord?
How much of his wealth did Solomon give up? How much did he give to the Lord?
In America today, what yearly salary or what amount of money makes a Christian rich?

end of quote;


These are good questions.

When we are living in a luxurious way and abandoning the need of other brethren, we are not right with God.

My family and I are lowering our standard of living since we became Christians. I am only a house cleaner and I am separated from my husband. My family is consists of two teen agers, 27 year old daughter with her 5 year old son. God is still enabling us to offer to the VOM (Voice of the Martyrs ) $5,000.00 a year and He still enable me to take a mission trip to Okinawa every other year.

Please don't attack me as boasting my family. I am only boasting God for His power. Please praise the Lord instead. No one can do anything good, not even one.

Thank you Jesus!!!!!! :angel: :angel: :angel:

I was in prison and you did not visit me :crying: :crying: :crying:
 
My turn.


No, gingercat, in this one you are wrong. There needs to be an understanding of history in order to understand this scripture in it's entirety.

During the time in which it was written, the cities were walled. In these walls there were portals. These portals were designed so that only a man standing could pass through them, (they were too low for a camel or men riding camels to pass through in order to keep invading hords from simply being able to ride their camels into the cities). I'm quite sure that you've seen these openings or gates in movies or pictures. They were shaped kind of like a spade, pointed at the top, wide in the middle, curving from the point at the top where both sides meet down to the bottom which is only a few feet wide. This shape was used in buildings also. So, in order for a man to bring his camel into the walled city through this portal, the owner had to use a stick to slap the camel on it's knees so that it would drop to it's knees. Then the camel could be led through the gate crawling on it's knees, (very painful uncomfortable to the camel). The name of this portal or gate was 'the eye'.

So you see, that's it's not impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, just very difficult. A rich man must make extreme efforts to use his wealth wisely and make sure that it doesn't become his god. Also it's difficult for those that have NO NEEDS due to their wealth to understand the need for Christ in their lives. Most often they are unable to understand that what they 'think' they are able to do on their own would be impossible if not for our Creator to begin with. They will often honor themselves to the point that they are blind to the truth.

While this point needs to be understood, I certainly agree with most of what you have offered. Most of our modern church goers like to 'act' like Christians much more than 'do' like Christians Especially when it concerns their finances. How often are the poor and needy ignored purposely by those claiming to Christians, (including myself). How many times have we been asked by a 'bum' for a dollar or a quarter that we have simply lied to them by telling them that we didn't have it? Or worse, see the man and just think that he might ask us for something and look the other way?

I will not accuse all of this. But I have been guilty of it myself and have witnessed others do the same, (more times than not), and then because of their guilt make up excuses like, "he's just going to use the money to get drunk or stoned", completely forgetting that warning about being visited by angels.................. or even that were not only to give this guy a quarter, but perhaps EVERYTHING IN OUR POCKET.

We often forget that our brothers should be treated 'like ourselves'. It's not just the churches that lack the fortitude to teach this behavior, we have bought into a system that teaches us to worry and be concerned with NUMBER ONE FIRST, ourselves. The world is about 'self' NOT it's brothers and sisters also.

And much of what the churches do charitywise, in my opinion, is done for their OWN ability to pat themselves on the back and praise themselves. We were told that what we offer is to be offered without the expectance of earthly praise but in secret so that our gifts will be repayed in heaven. Those that offer to receive praise here and now have ALREADY received their reward in that praise.
 
Thank you imagican for interpretation of the camel. I still believe most of us in this country is rich compared to the third world. Most of us ae guilty of not been compassionate enough to help the needy as Christians.

I hear many people say that America is the most generous people.

Maybe in the worldly eyes, but I believe we are far from Jesus' standard when we look at our life styles.

Jesus say I was in prison and you did not visit me :crying: :crying: :crying:

Please visit thevoice@vom-usa.org
 
Oh, let me add this: There are many that believe this to be myth or simply false teaching, (eye of the needle). If this is so, then King David will not be found in heaven, nor his Son Solomon. Job won't even be there. And at one time Adam and Eve were the richest two people on the planet, and at another time Noah and his family were the richest people on the planet. So I guess they won't be there either.And what about the rich man Lararus that offered to give Christ a burial chamber?

And out of EVERYTHING offered in parables and outright statements, this is the ONLY statement that Christ made that would have been made in such a way. Sounds more like a Confucious saying if it is literal than something offered by our Savior. He would have outright stated that it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven instead of saying it was very hard. Much to be desired in considering it to be a literal interpretation of the meaning behind His statement.

I also feel that it's obvious that a camel CANNOT fit through the eye of a needle. So it's not harder, it's utterly impossible if one were to take this literal. I ask this: this whole statement was made in reference to the man Jesus told to sell everything that he had and give it to the poor. Guys, what if he had done exactly this? Would the outcome have been any different. And we don't know that he didn't do exactly that. It IS possible that the man walked away crying and THEN did exactly as Christ had commanded him. We don't know the answer to that other than pure speculation.

But we do know that EVERYTHING was taken from Job and then returned in even greater amounts than at the first. So there's a least one rich man that we have reason to believe will be in heaven so it's NOT IMPOSSIBLE. And there are many other examples such as Israel, Abraham, etc, etc,,,,,,,,,,,Whereas a camel sqeezing through the eye of a needle we know IS IMPOSSIBLE.
 
Imagican,

How can you forget that Jesus upgraded His teachings?

In OT times they did not have to spread the Good news.

He gave us enormous reponsibilities as His servants. That's why He says with God everything is possible. If we are not willing to give up everything we cannot be His disciples.

In OT times it was ok to get revenge; Jesus says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth, and love your enemies.

OT times they were allowed to have mulitple wives. Did Jesus say it is ok to have multiple wives?

Let's not be convenient interpreting the servanthood.
 
I haven't forgotten. But and this is a BIG but, the purpose of God has NEVER changed since the formation of this planet. He has often been swayed by our weaknesses and has offered lieniency for this weakness, but what He wants for us has NEVER faultered.

With this in mind, the hearts of men are still as open to God as they were in the past.

That out of the way, I agree once again that we have become almost a 'soul-less' country. It seems we only offer our help when we can boast of it to the rest of the world. Our churches show their videos of pastors in Africa feeding the hungry 'a mean', and offer the showing of it like it's something marvelous that they have done, when in reality it is often nothing more than a 'paid vacation' for those filming and being filmed, so that they can take it back home with them to impress others with their 'generosity' with the congregations money.

And even in Jewish law and the lessons that God tried to teach through it the people were supposed to look after the needy. But there is NO reason to believe that God would bless a 'responsible' rich man in order for that man to be able to help others. I think the biggest problem in our being able to agree with one another is the 'nature' of being rich. I am NOT defending those that live in luxury with no regard to their fellow man except how viewing those less fortunate lifts them up. I am talking about the ability to be successfully liquid and USING this for the work of God. This is SO rare that it is harder for a camel to squeeze through the eye of a needle than a rich man to inherit the kingdom of God. Difficult but not impossible.

And I promise you that the heart of Job was righteous just as there are probably men with much now who's hearts are righteous. We just don't get to witness many of them. And FEW will be found in our modern churches. Their purpose seems to be to beg rather than offer.
 
Oh, and Christ didn't come to 'change' the law, but to 'fulfill it'. There is much misunderstanding on this point. The principles behind the creation of these laws HAS NOT CHANGED. We are no longer bound by death through theese laws, but in loving God above all else and loving our neihbors as ourselves WE FULFILL ALL THE LAW and ALL THAT WAS AND IS OFFERED BY THE PROPHETS. Many deny this, but the truth is that we are held more responsible after accepting Christ than we were to simply obeying a set of written laws. For those that accept Christ into their hearts and are 're-born', become more responsible. The laws are then written in their hearts to offer the conviction that you have often refered to. It's no longer a matter of getting caught by our neighbors for breaking God's laws, we now know that to even THINK of such things is to sin whether those around us are aware of it or not. Don't forget, the laws of Moses were to be imposed upon and punishable by MEN. So that there were often those that commited infractions against the law that were never caught by their fellow men. Now we know that we can run, but we can't hide.
 
Imagican,

I am so sory that you are making excuses for your servanthood reponsibilities. We can tell if they are of God or not when it comes to help others. We have some honest and goodness organizagions that trully helping other brethren to reach out to the lost souls. We can always make excuses to keep our lifesyles. that's why He says it is hard for rich man to go into His kingdom. We wealthy people better watch out. We are one of those rich people He is talking about. Let's not fool ourselves.
 
When I first saw this thread I thought it was about big haired preachers on TV who hold services in auditoriums that hold thousands.

Megachurches, private airplanes and forced smiles with teeth so white you could read by them.

Whatever happened to neighborhood churches? Replaced by the people who are making million$ selling religion. These are the guys who will have a lot of explaining to do at the Pearly Gates.
 
ttg,

I know what you mean, I realize that so many churches are not true churches. That's why I don't attend organized churches. We can support other brethren without attending churches. We can find honest goodness organizations. I could not find any godly church that are operated by paid pastors.

I have been supporting VOM and my family is my church.
 
gingercat said:
Jesus does not say that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Matt 19:24 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Can camel go through the eye of a needle? It is impossible!!!!!

Plaese don't make excuses for wealthy churchgoers. We are all weathy compare to the third world people!!!!

Gingercat - you are reinforcing exactly the point made by Jesus and you are showing us that you are looking at it with the eyes of 'man'.

With man it is impossible for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. And by the way this is not talking about a sewing needle.

But immediately afterwards Jesus states that nothing is impossible to God.

Now I know you are one who has been challenging others to look beyond their puny understanding of God - and here you are, wanting to say that even this is impossible to God - because you deem it impossible.

Remember the story of Zacchaeus. He was a wealthy man - so wealthy he said to Jesus he would give half his possessions away. Now in doing this, it does not make him poor. He is still wealthy and yet Jesus said of him that salvation had come to his house. I would say the Zacchaeus confirms that what is impossible to man is possible to God.
 
Mutz

Do you know that we have many persecuted Christians overseas? Do you know that most of us are rich compared to the third world countries? Do you know that we are living luxuriously in over all? If you cannot have compassion for the needy when we are living in such luxury we are not of God. Please read my OP again. My point is that most of us are that rich man Jesus is talking about. If you think we are doing fine go ahead and don't worry about the rest of the world how they are doing. I still keep on alarming people.

Jesus says I was in prison and you did not visit. :crying: :crying: :crying:
 
The fact that you have a computer and internet connection show once again that you do not practice what you preach gingercat.
 
Gingercat,

I wasn't attempting to make excuses. But from your perspective, even those on welfare and state assistance are living better than those that you refer to overseas. I don't honestly think that Christ EVER thought that everyone that He died for would literally pick up His cross. If so, the numbers revealed in Revelation would be even smaller.

All we can do is what we can do through Christ. If that's not enough, then that's not enough. At one point we have to lay it all down and trust in the Lord to lead us in the right direction.

From your perspective at this point, I ask, do we have to give ALL in order to follow Christ? And if your answer is yes, then I propose that ALL ARE LOST.

Please don't think that in my defense of the possibility of a rich man entering heaven that I myself am a rich man. Compared to someone in Ethiopia that has absolutely nothing, perhaps, but compared to those that are considered wealthy in this country, I have little.

I won't for a second claim to be 'Christ-like' in any shape or form. I am a struggling man that simply hopes to one day be forgiven and accepted. I read and study and pray constantly in the hopes of attaining but a sprinkling of the wisdom and love offered by Our Father through His Son. I have to believe that this is the path. Otherwise I may as well give up and simply become just another part of this world.

I think that there are degrees of everything. Rich, poor, saved, unsaved, evil, righteous, and EVERYTHING in between. What matters most is that we realize the 'truth' and allow that to change our lives. Each of us starts out an enemy of God. The thing that makes the difference is understanding this. I believe that's it's just as possible for a rich man to realize this as a poor one. Maybe not as likely, but surely just as possible. For Christ died for all men willing to accept His death and allow Him into their hearts.

Basically you offer nothing more here than the same thing that the denominations offer. A separating for the sake of self. Insistence that anyone that has more than you or someone else being doomed for their wealth is no different than the churches insisting that you are doomed for not following them and their doctrine.

And I notice that we are both sitting at a computer, (which costs money), and have internet access, (that cost money), which could surely, from your perspective, have been spent more wisely in the act of helping the poor, rather than sitting here discussing how wrong it is to have ANY wealth.

So I ask again: Are we to have absolutely nothing and completely rely upon the Lord to provide? Or should we simply be good stewards of that which we are blessed with. And, if there were NO ONE with any wealth with which to help the poor orphans and widows, from where would they receive theirs?

It's really easy to sit back and condemn. It's a whole lot harder to ask the whys and hows and then make an effort to understand them.

And now I begin to understand more and more the comments of those such as Thess about attacking each other. LOVE is first ginger. Without that, there is NOTHING else that matters. All else is but an act or a game of charades. And this love is not for self but giving and caring for others including each other. Not only of your wealth, but of your heart as well. That starts with forgiveness.
 
gingercat said:
Mutz

Do you know that we have many persecuted Christians overseas?
Yes
gingercat said:
Do you know that most of us are rich compared to the third world countries?
Yes
gingercat said:
Do you know that we are living luxuriously in over all?
Yes
gingercat said:
If you cannot have compassion for the needy when we are living in such luxury we are not of God.
I do have compassion.
gingercat said:
Please read my OP again. My point is that most of us are that rich man Jesus is talking about. If you think we are doing fine go ahead and don't worry about the rest of the world how they are doing.
First and foremost God has given me responsibility for meeting the needs of my family. I work in a job that God has provided for me which enables me to do this.
gingercat said:
I still keep on alarming people.
Yes I agree
gingercat said:
Jesus says I was in prison and you did not visit. :crying: :crying: :crying:
As one who is born of the Spirit, I have to be sensitive to whatever the Spirit says to me. However, I don't respond to the written code, rather to the prompting of the Spirit within. Since I am in the vine then the fruit of my life reflects the vine. I don't bring forth fruit by striving. I do it by abiding in the vine and doing by nature the things that Christ (the vine) allows.
 
Free said:
The fact that you have a computer and internet connection show once again that you do not practice what you preach gingercat.

This is another one of your fovorite excuses. I use every tools to do His will. I am living in already established materialistic world. I cannot live by myself without anything. All I can do is lower my standard. Jesus wants us to discern. I will not let this kind of attack faze me, free. Just by lowering your standard of living, you will be surprized how He makes you powerful. Just try it, free.
 
I wasn't attempting to make excuses. But from your perspective, even those on welfare and state assistance are living better than those that you refer to overseas.

end of quote:


Imagican, I am just amazed how you can come up with the excuses and justifications.

I have been making over all assesment and observation. Obviousely you are not intersted in following all of His teachings. Jesus is greately concerned of poor and needy.

As long as we have so many poor and needy, wealthy coutries like us should do our best to help them. Living in a luxurious life styles are not our best. Jesus loves everyone, expecially who are risking their lives to reach out to the lost souls. Those persecuted brethren are not only from our country. there are many many native brethren fighting against satan and risking their lives to reach the lost souls.
 
Back
Top