Materialistic Christians

[gingercat]

Organizations like them hold a tremendous advantage in the field of "serving" those in need. Who were the first to arrive in the South after "Katrina" hit? Them and the Salvation Army... certainly not the Government.


end of quote;



Vic,

Did you read my OP? My point is that we have millions of organized churches. Take a look around. Jesus loves every one. He tells us to love your neighbor as yourself. do you think we are loving our neighbors by living such luxulious lifestyles? Do you think the most christians are living humbly? How can you live luxuriousely when we have so many hungry and needy people all around us?


If we don't have compassion for the needy and do something about it, we have to reexamine our faith if we are only fooling ourselves and others.

I don't think we are doing much if our life styles are so luxurious.

 

[Vic C.]

One more thing; the topic is materialistic Christians, not "lets beat up on the organized churches".

end of quote

I am just responding to the posters. I don't restrict my posts. I am flexible according to the posters response.

Understood. It's just my way of reminding all of us to try and stay on topic.

You misunderstood me. I did not accuse you of judging anyone. You said, "We are all going to be judged by our convictions." I asked where does it say that?

You also said "Cowardly is the first one on the list of sins." You pointed me to Revelation 21:8. That's not a list of sins, that's a list of types of sinners. There is only one sin over and above others. Besides true believers will not suffer the lake of fire (second death).

I'm not picking on you, but you did post in a way that caused you to interject meaning into scripture that isn't there. Just as you feel it is your duty to judge one by their fruits, I feel it is my duty to point out errant use of scripture... and expect posters to do the same for me.

I'd be really careful where stones are being thrown. When one of your "home" chruch groups can bear such fruit in the area of missions and servanthood as the Organizations I mentioned, I'm all ears and eyes. 8-)

I'd also be careful where and when to use the word "hypocrisy". There is an old saying about those who don't join churches because of hypocrisy. :wink:

 

[Vic C.]

Vic,

Did you read my OP? My point is that we have millions of organized churches. Take a look around. Jesus loves every one. He tells us to love your neighbor as yourself. do you think we are loving our neighbors by living such luxulious lifestyles? Do you think the most christians are living humbly? How can you live luxuriousely when we have so many hungry and needy people all around us?

I sure did, but you should be addressing those who live such luxulious lifestyles instead of posting it here like we all are the ones on your hitlist. I'll give you a rundown of my luxulious life if you care. (Ooh, I'm SO jealous and envious of myself-lol, j/k)

No car
If it has two wheels, I will drive it
Rent modest apartment
No cellphone
TV's are both pre-1990
Yes, I do have computers, but bacause it's how I make my living. If it weren't for God placing me in this position of managing a PC network, I'd still be managing a camera shop/black & white photolab/custom frame shop.

Shall I keep going?

No I am not bragging nor did I take some sort of vow of poverty. Capitalism has never been one of my strong areas.

On second thought, while I can't speak for most Christians nor judge who is and isn't living 'right', maybe your post WILL get through to someone. Who knows?

 

[gingercat]

You misunderstood me. I did not accuse you of judging anyone. You said, "We are all going to be judged by our convictions." I asked where does it say that?
'
end of quote


We all act according to our convictions whether we recognize them or not. We all going to be judged by our actions. Our convictions lead to actions not nessesary they are all His will as we all know.

 

[gingercat]

Vic,

I state "most" because so many churchgoers pretend their denomination/churches are different.

If I state" some" churches, oh, it is not me, not my church not my denomination, it is also not accurate.

Besides, Billy Graham states often that the most churchgoers are uncommitted Christians. Why do you want to protect lukewarm majority?

Don't you feel bad that many churchgoers are disgracing His name and reputation? I don't understand people don't feel bad about it and fight so hard to protect them instead of doing something about it. Don't tell me you are doing something about it. The situation is getting worse and not better.

 

[gingercat]

Vic,


I have been doing every which way to encourage churchgoers to be obedient and be a good witnesses for Him. Did you read my testimony? My mission is not just come here to fight. God is humongous that He is giving me multiple tasks for His glory.

In this country, we have more churchgoers than non-believers. So I talk to both kinds. I am volunteer evangelist. I cannot help other brethren in need as much as I want if I join the organized church. I also support the Voice of the martyrs on regular basis. I am much useful for the Lord because I don't join the organized church. I don't believe that the organized churches are as effective as house churches at all. House churches offering goes directly for the need of others; not the buildings, expansion of their denominations, building upkeep and pastors' salary, and their programs etc..

 

[mutzrein]

Again thess,


You have responsibility to have good witnesses for Him. The most organized churches in the free countries are failing miserably.

Bad reputation is not a good witness. The Bible tells us not to have anything to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness. I have my house church and my family doesn't have bad reputation. You have good excuses to keep on doing your hypocrisy by saying that you cannot watch everyone becasue you are big. Well, we have to wait and see if Jesus accepts that. I don't believe so.

You keep on speak up for organized churches and I will keep on speak up for house churches.

My family and I are useful for the Lord since we left organized church. Our offering goes direct to the needs of real Church and not the buildings, church programs expanding of their own denomination and pastors, preachers salaries.

Your fruits are apparant, and show to be that of selfishness and lacking the love for the brethren. Thank you for continuing to show your fruit so that others can recognize not to follow you into the ditch.

Solo - Can you please point to the fruit of what you say is gingercat's selfishness and lack of love for the brethren. From what I have observed gingercat loves the lost and has a desire to see the gospel preached. Her brethren are those she has fellowship with. She gives of herself in a manner which many would not understand because she cannot accept the practices of the 'established' church. And I don't blame her actually but unless you have evidence of the fruit that you speak of, I would say you should retract the accusation. That is, unless you want her to be doubly blessed too.

 

[D46]

Yes, I do have computers, but bacause it's how I make my living. If it weren't for God placing me in this position of managing a PC network, I'd still be managing a camera shop/black & white photolab/custom frame shop.

Nothing wrong with managiing a camera shop and doing photo lab work. I made a living doing weddings/family reunions/ portraiture, etc. for several years with a Pentax 6x7 and it was quite a bit of work. Still have a room downstairs where I did my own B&W and Cibachrome work. I had to end up selling my two 6x7's, Photogenic 600ws lights, Westcott light modifiers, backgrounds,two radio slaves and my Leica. Still not over that!

 

[mutzrein]

Ed,

That's the many churches interpretation. I totally disagree. Your interpretation is just an excuse IMHO.

There are many persectuted Christians can use rich chirstians help like us, but we are failing to meet their need miserably.

I was in prison and you did not vistit. : : :

Excuse for what? - I am not excusing the church.

And which church interprets the scripture as I have? I have not heard one - unless you are misinterpreting my meaning.

There are many in the church who use scripture to justify their wealth. And it is wrong.

But aside from that Jesus did say that nothing is impossible to God.

 

[gingercat]

And that is why it is not impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Ed,

Jesus says that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You are saying that it is possible.

 

[mutzrein]

And that is why it is not impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Ed,

Jesus says that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You are saying that it is possible.

Here is the scripture.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?" Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

You see, Jesus did not say it is impossible. He said it is 'hard' and then he said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kindom of heaven. When the disciples asked who then can be saved, Jesus said, "with man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

 

[destiny]

Gingercat, in order to be credible or what you have to say received, people need to see that you are only human. If you have the facade "i've got it all together so let me give all the right answers to help these people", you lose your credibility and people don't receive you.
You talk about how church go'ers disgrace His name, but don't we all grossly fail to represent Him sometimes?
Theres wheat in the churches and theres tares also, theres wheat in the homegroups, and i'm learning theres tares there also.
Where ever theres people theres problems and NONE of us are perfect. If given the perfect formula for "church" or how to spend or not spend money, we would soon screw that up too, either by our actions or our attitude...or by our pride. We are all dumb old sheep, in desperate need of God.
I've learned theres christians who are strong in areas i'm weak in, and my strength is someone elses weakness. God has taught me in one area and someone else in another, so that we can share in what God has taught us or brought us through individually with one another.
Thats the real part of body life, we need each other. No one person has all the answers for the rest.

 

[mutzrein]

That speaks to me too destiny. Thankyou.

 

[Solo]

And that is why it is not impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Ed,

Jesus says that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

You are saying that it is possible.

Jesus does not say that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
When you read the scripture, do so in a manner whereby you can know what is truly being said, and your misunderstandings of scripture will cease. Jesus says that a rich man will have a harder time entering the kingdom of heaven, and that with men it is impossible, but with God it is possible.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19:23-26

 

[gingercat]

Gingercat, in order to be credible or what you have to say received, people need to see that you are only human. If you have the facade "i've got it all together so let me give all the right answers to help these people", you lose your credibility and people don't receive you.
You talk about how church go'ers disgrace His name, but don't we all grossly fail to represent Him sometimes?
Theres wheat in the churches and theres tares also, theres wheat in the homegroups, and i'm learning theres tares there also.
Where ever theres people theres problems and NONE of us are perfect. If given the perfect formula for "church" or how to spend or not spend money, we would soon screw that up too, either by our actions or our attitude...or by our pride. We are all dumb old sheep, in desperate need of God.
I've learned theres christians who are strong in areas i'm weak in, and my strength is someone elses weakness. God has taught me in one area and someone else in another, so that we can share in what God has taught us or brought us through individually with one another.
Thats the real part of body life, we need each other. No one person has all the answers for the rest.

Destiny,

You seem to forget that there is a huge difference in between imperfection and hypocricy. Imperfection is innocent but hypocriccy is evil. When you have reputation of hypocrite as Christians, you are disgracing God and God is not in you. When you are doing your best no matter how weak, untalented, how poor, how unsmart, how young, how old and etc. it will show in your lives and you will be light in the world. That's how God works. He looks in our heart how sincere we are and He helps up powefully.

 

[gingercat]

Jesus does not say that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Matt 19:24 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Can camel go through the eye of a needle? It is impossible!!!!!

Plaese don't make excuses for wealthy churchgoers. We are all weathy compare to the third world people!!!!

 

[Drew]

Hi gingercat (and others):

If you want to read a very interesting thread on this general topic, please see the following (I hope that I have copied the link properly)

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ight=least

I know that giving links like this are often seen as a way of avoiding direct engagement, but I do think this particular thread exposes the very interesting relationship between wealth and the Christian walk. There is a fair bit of reading to do in this thread, but I still think it is worth a visit.

 

[destiny]

Hi gingercat (and others):

If you want to read a very interesting thread on this general topic, please see the following (I hope that I have copied the link properly)

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... ight=least

I know that giving links like this are often seen as a way of avoiding direct engagement, but I do think this particular thread exposes the very interesting relationship between wealth and the Christian walk. There is a fair bit of reading to do in this thread, but I still think it is worth a visit.

I still feel exactly the same way aboout giving as I did in that thread.

 

[Solo]

Jesus does not say that it is impossible for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

end of quote:


Matt 19:24 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Can camel go through the eye of a needle? It is impossible!!!!!

Plaese don't make excuses for wealthy churchgoers. We are all weathy compare to the third world people!!!!

Jesus does not say that it is impossible for a rich man to get into heaven, nor does he say that it is impossible for a camel to get through the eye of a needle. Surely you are not insinuating that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into heaven. :o

Read this link http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

 

[gingercat]

you are not insinuating that it is impossible for a rich man to enter into heaven.

end of quote:


Not unless you give it up for Him.

Jesus also says that in Lk 14:33 "..who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."