What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Matt 23:1-3 question

D

donadams

Only Jesus Christ: the way, the truth, the life!
Catholicism Overseer
Why does Jesus command the people to obey the scribes and the Pharisees?

Matt 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
 
donadams said:
Why does Jesus command the people to obey the scribes and the Pharisees?

Matt 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Click to expand...
Obey what the Pharisees teach from the law. When they sit in Moses seat(teaching the law) obey what they teach.

But do not do as they do for they do not follow the law they teach.
 
donadams said:
Why does Jesus command the people to obey the scribes and the Pharisees?
Click to expand...
Because they are obligated by the law to do so:

9You are to go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who presides at that time. Inquire of them, and they will give you a verdict in the case.

10You must abide by the verdict they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they instruct you, 11according to the terms of law they give and the verdict they proclaim. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left from the decision they declare to you.

12But the man who acts presumptuously, refusing to listen either to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, or to the judge, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 17:9-12


But thanks be to God, we have been set free from the oppression and error of leadership that interprets and establishes law incorrectly:

15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.c 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.

20If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations: 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”? 22These will all perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2:15-23


The Catholic church hierarchy is an example of the New Covenant form of this kind of misguided and carnal leadership that God has rescued us from.
 
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine said:
Because they are obligated by the law to do so:

9You are to go to the Levitical priests and to the judge who presides at that time. Inquire of them, and they will give you a verdict in the case.

10You must abide by the verdict they give you at the place the LORD will choose. Be careful to do everything they instruct you, 11according to the terms of law they give and the verdict they proclaim. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left from the decision they declare to you.

12But the man who acts presumptuously, refusing to listen either to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, or to the judge, must be put to death. Deuteronomy 17:9-12


But thanks be to God, we have been set free from the oppression and error of leadership that interprets and establishes law incorrectly:

15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.c 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you with speculation about what he has seen. Such a person is puffed up without basis by his unspiritual mind. 19He has lost connection to the head, from whom the whole body, supported and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows as God causes it to grow.

20If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations: 21“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”? 22These will all perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such restrictions indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-prescribed worship, their false humility, and their harsh treatment of the body; but they are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Colossians 2:15-23


The Catholic church hierarchy is an example of the New Covenant form of this kind of misguided and carnal leadership that God has rescued us from.
Click to expand...
And to be fair... it is not ONLY the RCC that is an example of modern Pharisees.

But it is the one that is easiest to see sometimes.
 
Paul Timothy said:
In other words.... Sola Scriptura
Click to expand...
Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
 
Point one: God established authority in Moses, and these are his successors in his seat of authority so Christ says they must be obeyed
 
Point two: it shall me taken from you and given to another that will bear fruit. (The church)
 
donadams said:
Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
Click to expand...
Your initial post was all about Sola Scriptura.

Why would you post about something you are against?
 
Point three the same authority is in Peter and the apostles. Isa 22:21-22 Matt 26:17-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:20 lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15
And Jesus Christ still demands this authority to be obeyed and if we submit to the authorized ministers of the king we are submitting to the king! Jn 13:20 Acts 20:28 Heb 13:7 heb 13:17
 
donadams said:
Point three the same authority is in Peter and the apostles. Isa 22:21-22 Matt 26:17-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:20 lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15
And Jesus Christ still demands this authority to be obeyed and if we submit to the authorized ministers of the king we are submitting to the king! Jn 13:20 Acts 20:28 Heb 13:7 heb 13:17
Click to expand...
I see no demands from Christ that His authority be obeyed. That is going beyond the scope of the quoted scriptures.
 
donadams said:
Scripture Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
Click to expand...
Because anyone who claims to hold one of the five offices of ministry in Ephesians 4:11 must stay within the boundaries of the scriptures, not invent extra-Biblical stuff as the Catholic church has done, and claims they can do.
 
donadams said:
Bible yes
Bible alone no
Click to expand...
We firmly resist the Catholic additions to what the Bible teaches.

Catholics are sitting ducks for corruption because they are told that they must listen to what their leadership teaches, no matter what, even if it's not from the Bible, and that they have no capacity to discern and judge that which they are told only the hierarchy of the Catholic church can discern as truth. And so, corrupt is what it has become! You have no measure by which to know truth from error! You are at the mercy of a corrupt hierarchy that lords it over you, just as the Pharisees lorded it over the Jews and mislead them with unspiritual and carnal commands and practices added to the law.

Christ died to set God's people free from that system of corrupt leadership. Now we don't depend on so-called leaders to discern truth for us. We have that capacity for ourselves through the Holy Spirit of discernment given to all of God's people, not just those in offices of authority as it was before the Holy Spirit was given to the common man.
 
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine said:
Because anyone who claims to hold one of the five offices of ministry in Ephesians 4:11 must stay within the boundaries of the scriptures, not invent extra-Biblical stuff as the Catholic church has done, and claims they can do.
Click to expand...
Name one!
We believe “thee faith” was “revealed” by Christ to his church! (Apostles)
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Because anyone who claims to hold one of the five offices of ministry in Ephesians 4:11 must stay within the boundaries of the scriptures, not invent extra-Biblical stuff as the Catholic church has done, and claims they can do.
Click to expand...
An apostle with authority from Christ cannot be self-proclaimed but must be sent by the apostles rom 10:15
 
Jethro Bodine said:
We firmly resist the Catholic additions to what the Bible teaches.

Catholics are sitting ducks for corruption because they are told that they must listen to what their leadership teaches, no matter what, even if it's not from the Bible, and that they have no capacity to discern and judge what they are told only the hierarchy of the Catholic church can discern as truth. And so, corrupt is what it has become! You have no measure by which to know truth from error!
Click to expand...
No they must teach only what God has revealed in Christ Matt 28:19
 
Can you show us in scripture where Jesus Christ or Paul or Peter or any Apostles ever taught anything about a “Pope” ruling over the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ from Rome?


Pope is simply an Italian name meaning father. Comes from Isa 22:21-22 as the head of a family is called father so the visible head of the church on earth is called father.

Christ is the only head of the church yes, but Peter acts on His behalf as His personal representative, Christ acts vicariously thru Peter and His successors. Hence the vicar of Christ.

Peter received the “keys of the kingdom” jurisdictional authority to govern the church with the apostles until Christ returns. Matt 16:18-19

This same authority belong to the successors of Moses, Matt 23:1-3 and Christ demanded that it be obeyed, then it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles.
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 16:13 Jn 21:21 Jn 13:20 acts 20:28 heb 13:7-17

A cathedral to this day is called the “seat” of the bishop. The seat of authority.

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 acts 2:42

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

God always establishes peace and order by obedience to the authority of the fathers.

The church is catholic cos it is universal. Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 Matt 28:19

The church is Roman cos it is Christ’s church that conquered the Roman Empire!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top