Matters Of The Heart

[Edward]

Does what we feel in our heart affect the world around us beyond our heart?

Is what we feel in our heart...our emotions?

I've noticed in my 55 years that, when there is a turmoil within us, it is between the logical mind and the heart. What say you?

 

[JohnDB]

Depends on what you mean by heart.

Paul uses "the Heart" as a place where your emotions and logic create actions.

What exactly do you mean by it?

 

[Edward]

That's what we're here to find out, lol. See my first two questions? :wink

I have my ideas, and I am headed a certain direction with this, but I want to know...what's the status quo here? What do YOU think?

Personally, I believe that there is a lot of vagueness and uncertainty to exactly what it means and the term may be misused quite a bit.

Paul uses "the Heart" as a place where your emotions and logic create actions.

Is this what you believe? Will you expound on it some for clarity? thx.

 

[eddif]

Jeremiah 31:33 KJV
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.



Hebrews 10:16
KJV
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jeremiah 17:9 KJV
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Seems to me that the heart is closer to the flesh. Emotions run blood pressure up.
Pain effects heart rate.

The mind can comprehend what Christ has done for us.

I John 3:20 KJV
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Punched post early. More - comments later.

Redneck
eddif

 

[JohnDB]

That's what we're here to find out, lol. See my first two questions? :wink

I have my ideas, and I am headed a certain direction with this, but I want to know...what's the status quo here? What do YOU think?

Personally, I believe that there is a lot of vagueness and uncertainty to exactly what it means and the term may be misused quite a bit.



Is this what you believe? Will you expound on it some for clarity? thx.

Emotions...
They are illogical and often wrong. As a construction foreman I've been called all kinds of horrible names... and usually it's considered a joke and I laugh about it. But let one of my Sunday School class membership call me a slightly disrespectful term in known jest...and my feelings are deeply hurt that I usually think are dead. At work I call them at least as ugly a term...all is good. At church I'm stunned into speechlessness. Emotions and logic working together into either action or inaction.

Logic:
When I take what is known to be obviously true (facts/knowledge) and apply what wisdom I own (right application of knowledge) and determine what any given situation/relationship truly is.

These two together can create actions.

Example:
I hate hitting children. I don't like it at all. They cry and whine and tell others that I hit them and they won't like me because I hit a child.
But
I see a small child reaching out to touch a glowing stove eye. I can't reach their arm in time to grab them and pull them away...but I got just enough time to smack their hand away to keep them from getting seriously injured....so I smack their little hand away to safety. (Fear of serious injury & logic of time crunch causing action) I'm not relieved when they start crying over their smarting hand...but I comfort them anyway telling them I'm sorry. I really want to run away.
(Logic overriding emotions but acting anyway)

 

[stovebolts]

Does what we feel in our heart affect the world around us beyond our heart?

Is what we feel in our heart...our emotions?

I've noticed in my 55 years that, when there is a turmoil within us, it is between the logical mind and the heart. What say you?

If I recall properly. The ancients believed emotions came from your mid section and your heart is where your intellect came in.

Regardless, we are sentient beings and our emotions drive us more than we would like to admit. Often, our emotions become so heavy we can lose control of them and sometimes do stupid or destructive things.

We like being in control, so we often build up our intellect and suppress emotions. It's not really healthy, but at least we can control our intellect.

As the world has effected us, our emotions effect the world around us. Just drive in the city and experience being the victim of road rage and you'll understand. Or take the woman who was abused by her father, and then abused by her husband. When they get out of those wicked relationships, they have a lot of emotional triggers as they lash out on unsuspecting men who run them the wrong way.

The list and examples are too numerous, but what's really happening is the mind is simply trying to understand what in the heck just happened.

 

[eddif]

Romans 8:35 kjv
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Two hearts:
1. Stony heart
2. New heart of flesh

Two minds:
1. Carnal mind
2. Mind of Christ in us

If you think a redneck from Mississippi sees all this perfectly clearly? Probably not.

If our minds are stayed in Christ, things around us have little effect on us ( in regards to belief in Christ).

Our flesh is still influenced by our surroundings - to some extent.

Redneck
eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

To the first question, yes. Emotions can be deceiving at times as to what course of action that comes from us that the world around us will see.

To the second question I also have to say yes. Our heart is the core of our emotions as being our very soul. It either belongs to the Lord or belongs to the world. When there is turmoil that is the flesh wrestling against the Spirit that is within us. The flesh will always battle against the Spirit.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

 

[Edward]

Jeremiah 31:33 KJV
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Excellent scripture. But, what does write it in their hearts, mean?

Hebrews 10:16
KJV
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Excellent scripture. It actually differentiates between the Lord's Laws being put into the hearts, and mind (thoughts). I think that's a big point!

Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Again, a differentiation! Mind, and flesh...our brain is flesh, isn't it? But that would make the mind (thoughts) not a product of the brain. No wonder scientists can't find where consciousness originates in the brain, it's not there! So the underlying question there is, is consciousness in the heart or spirit, or both?

We now have the technology to be able to measure electromagnetic waves transmitted from the brain or heart. We've known for a long time that our (brain) send signals to our heart...it creates a magnetic field around the brain. But now we know that the heart also sends signals to the brain! IIRC, they said it was up to 400 times as many signals from the heart to brain, as there is coming from the brain to the heart. And that the magnetic field of the heart is at least 4 times as powerful as the brains is.

Jeremiah 17:9 KJV
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Uh-huh, that's why I haven't taken any of this as gospel truth or anything. I see darkly too, lol.

Seems to me that the heart is closer to the flesh. Emotions run blood pressure up.
Pain effects heart rate.

That's what I thought, but am doubting myself on that lately. Unless maybe...the term "heart" is used in different ways in scripture? One way, the flesh heart, the other way...an unseen heart, spiritual in nature but holds the...state of our being? Something like that...

Emotions do run BP up, also respiration and heart rate...not just pain though, also good emotions, love, gratitude, compassion, that sort of thing. SO here we are at...what creates emotions? Heart or mind?

I John 3:20 KJV
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Our heart can condemn us, so that doesn't sound like it speaks of a flesh heart to me. God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things...so could this be a scriptural hint that, our heart knows things or can think within itself?

 

[Edward]

Emotions...
They are illogical and often wrong. As a construction foreman I've been called all kinds of horrible names... and usually it's considered a joke and I laugh about it. But let one of my Sunday School class membership call me a slightly disrespectful term in known jest...and my feelings are deeply hurt that I usually think are dead. At work I call them at least as ugly a term...all is good. At church I'm stunned into speechlessness. Emotions and logic working together into either action or inaction.

Exactly. Same thing here. When we were kids too, we would play the dozens with family and friends and no one took it as anything other than a joke. It's still like that between me and my brother, though we don't play the dozens quite as (bad) as we used, just some kidding around. But people in general nowadays? Whoa. They get so offended so easily! You mods know that too well lol. I gave one girl a compliment, and another girl PM'd me to tell me how rude I was and insulted the other girl...? Geez. But I digress, I think you hit on something there...emotions and logic come together and spur action or inaction as the situation calls for.
That just screams truth to me, but...I don't yet comprehend it all so am left sorta wondering, lol. It begs the question too I think, where are our emotions seated? Heart or mind, (or spirit?) and do our emotions guide our thinking...or does our thinking guide our emotions?

Logic:
When I take what is known to be obviously true (facts/knowledge) and apply what wisdom I own (right application of knowledge) and determine what any given situation/relationship truly is.

Yep, truth is self evident when we see it. I know that when I know something, I can feel it in my heart. The Lord taught me this. At first, he would (what I have called before...) pinged my spirit when whatever I was watching a video or reading and He showed me, this is true. But now I'm wondering, maybe it wasn't my spirit that he pinged, but my heart?

These two together can create actions.

Oh yes they can Brother! Yours is a good example, and it demonstrates how it can, in a (seemingly) negative way (to others who may see what you did and definitely to the child who almost got burnt!...but there are examples demonstrating how it can in a positive light also.

Take being in Love for instance. Remember when you was a young man and first fell in love with your Wife? (Lol!). I do. Courting her spurred me to many illogical acts, lol. But deep down, I knew it was the right thing to do at the time if I wanted to affect her spirit and win her affections to me! I won too, lol.
Funny but, when I first seen her, she was sitting alone after the fireworks display, which we were working selling hotdogs with vending carts. She was my friends helper for the event. I said hey Jerzy, introduce me to your helper...he said ok. He went over and told her that boy over there wants to meet you...she pointed at a different boy than I (!) and Jerzy didn't catch it so he said uh-huh, and came got me! She liked another boy named Chris, but I wasn't him, lol! (She told me later on). But I was wound up in emotions and desire and so forth so was, acting illogical shall we say?! LOL. And that stuff is romantic to girls and I was good at it, so she...really had no defense even if I was a different boy than she pointed to, lol!

 

[Edward]

If I recall properly. The ancients believed emotions came from your mid section and your heart is where your intellect came in.

I've heard essentially the same thing. But it raises so many questions! Like...now scripture says that, we war within ourselves, the war against the flesh, right? Scripture also says, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he...So the question is, Does the flesh think and speak to us? My inclination is to think, well Duh, I argue with myself daily, lol. So yes. The bigger question is, (how to put this? lol) is our heart and it's thinking process independent of the flesh's thinking processes?

And who is who when we are speaking to ourselves (thinking)? We are spirit-soul-body, and I thought I had identified that we have three voices in our head, our flesh, our spirit, and the enemy...now I wonder if that is true? Maybe it is flesh spirit, heart?

If we are created in the image of God, then why wouldn't we be triune beings in that way? Each with it's own voice?

Be advised that I am not being dogmatic about any portion of this. Like one wise poster put it...I see through a glass darkly and am probably wrong about some things, lol.

 

[Edward]

Regardless, we are sentient beings and our emotions drive us more than we would like to admit. Often, our emotions become so heavy we can lose control of them and sometimes do stupid or destructive things.

Yes people do lose control over emotions. We need to be able to control them and bring them into alignment with our thoughts. Thoughts and emotions have to be married I think!

Waitaminute...how about this? When emotions and thoughts become one, this is the place that miracles happen...?
Like when a mama crashes her car and the kid is pinned under it with no one around to help. SO she lifts the car off of the kid. I think that's an example of what can happen if emotions and thoughts are united as one...There is a huge correlation with our belief system here and seeing her child in such a dire situation affects her belief system. She quickly knows that if the child is to be saved, then she has to do it...so she does. (Is this why some receive healing and others don't?)

We like being in control, so we often build up our intellect and suppress emotions. It's not really healthy, but at least we can control our intellect.

That is how they train us to be. To suppress our emotions and rely on carnal thinking.
In most things, they have taught us the exact opposite of the truth of how we should be and live. So maybe we shouldn't suppress our emotions but to embrace them instead?

2 billion teenage girls can't be wrong, lol.

 

[stovebolts]

Ha, your funny Edward ! Loved your last remark about 2 billion teenage girls cant ne wrong, lol. Maybe that's why David said,
New Living Translation
Do not remember the rebellious sins of my youth. Remember me in the light of your unfailing love, for you are merciful, O LORD.

You know, I could spend lots of time talking about this, but spare time isn't something I have too much of.

Body, Soul, Spirit.... interesting huh? Our body craves food, so we eat. It craves touch, so we marry. Our soul craves love, so we bond. For those who were abused, neglected and lacked nurturing at a young age, they stick a needle in their arm to feel what we feel naturally, but never truly realizing the love we feel which is so easily taken for granted.
And our spirit yearns to be so much more because it naturally knows it is a part of something so much bigger than itself.

Get one out of whack, and there is never peace... there is never harmony.

This is what I love about viewing the trinity as a circle... perfect harmony.

I love the below icon of the Trinity... gathered around the table with the Eucharist in the middle. Notice there is an opening, for all are invited.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Angelsatmamre-trinity-rublev-1410.jpg

 

[eddif]

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Excellent scripture. But, what does write it in their hearts, mean?

I John 1:9 KJV
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John 16:7 KJV
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Romans 7:25 kjv
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So
The natural heart is convinced of sin through the new heart the Holy Spirit creates.

We really have trouble recognizing sin till the law (which gives knowledge of sin) is placed in our heart to recognize our flesh sin.

The New Jerusalem has no temple. Oops next subject about brain mind. Subject for later.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

 

[Edward]

This stuff is all over youtube, lol.

 

[Tessa]

Does what we feel in our heart affect the world around us beyond our heart?

Is what we feel in our heart...our emotions?

I've noticed in my 55 years that, when there is a turmoil within us, it is between the logical mind and the heart. What say you?

I believe our emotions do effect the world around us. If I feel sad my daughter feels sad. Difference is she doesn't know why I'm sad and I do.

Do you get those adverts on TV for Oxfam, world hunger, feed the children etc? When I see them I am overcome with emotion and guilt - why should I have food and clean water and they have nothing? Then I feel hopeless because I can't feed them. That's when the logic sets in. I can help with what I can afford and have the knowledge that many others are doing the same. The heart and logic working together.

The same applies to spiritual things. I know we rejoice about Christ's resurrection. But Good Friday is a nightmare. To read and dwell about the suffering Jesus went through breaks my heart. That brings guilt too because we did it. As I dwell on it all of a sudden I feel closer to Jesus. I wish He hadn't needed to do all that. Then the logic sets in - I want to accept the sacrifice and follow His teachings as much as I can. That's when the action sets in. Again I believe heart and logic work together although they are separate things.

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the reply, Sister. I was starting to think there was no interest in these things! I think it's important!

I believe our emotions do effect the world around us. If I feel sad my daughter feels sad. Difference is she doesn't know why I'm sad and I do.

Since I started this thread, I watched a video which talked about it. They said experiments have been done (The Russians I believe) and I forget what they were trying to see, but what they did was, they emptied a test tube, pulled a vacuum on it, so the only thing in the tube was Photons (particles of light). Then they observed their orientation in the tube to see if they were scattered or collected at the bottom or whatever, and recorded that and then they added to the tube some human DNA and looked again at the photons. The configuration was different, so the DNA affected the photons (matter).

Then the removed the DNA and looked again at the photons, and they were still configured as if the DNA was still in the tube!

They also took a group of people and examined everyone's DNA for a baseline and then had them all look at different pictures which evoked different emotions. Some pics evoked sad or bad emotions others were more joyful pics.

And reexamined everyone's DNA again and found differences everywhere, no matter if it were good or bad emotions. They proved that emotions affect our DNA. Different emotion affect the DNA in different ways.

So to summarize:
Emotions affect our DNA
DNA Affects matter!

So in a shorthand sort of way...emotions affect matter.

Wow. No wonder we're supposed to walk in love!

 

[Tessa]

That's very interesting Edward. The experiment on the test tube shown that it has a lasting effect even after the DNA was removed.
I believe we affect everyone we meet in some way or another. But we don't really think about it often, if ever.
I remember a lady that I didn't know passed me on public transport, and for some reason she made me feel a deep sadness. Of course I will never I know why. It was years ago but I will never forget her or the feeling.

Another time a man was walking in front of me and I felt evil was there.

Too true about how important love. What a huge responsibility but so rewarding

 

[Edward]

Do you get those adverts on TV for Oxfam, world hunger, feed the children etc? When I see them I am overcome with emotion and guilt - why should I have food and clean water and they have nothing? Then I feel hopeless because I can't feed them. That's when the logic sets in. I can help with what I can afford and have the knowledge that many others are doing the same. The heart and logic working together.

(Some company came a knocking, lol. My only friend in this town, my neighbor. He invited me to his church tomorrow! I accepted of course.)

Anyway, I've done quite a bit of pondering and meditation about these things. My heart is drawn to the people who live in the war torn areas of this globe and to the people of all other nations. There's people who are refugees, some have had to witness their families being shot down and then houses destroyed, sexually abused and left to wander. My heart goes out out to them, a people so defeated in spirit that they have no hope. Not even enough to cry out to God with. And here I sit sometimes thinking I am having a low point of my life, and I have a roof over my head and food in the frige. So far, the lights are still on, lol. With me with no real way to help these people and too dumb to figure it out Lol...the Lord taught me that, I can pray for them. I can fast for them. I can ask for a portion of their suffering to be put upon me so that these poor crushed souls may be able to have a good day and perhaps use their lightened spirit and burden to reach out to God and be saved. That blew my mind.
In Ephesians it speaks of prayer within the same paragraph as the armor of God. Prayer is more important than most realize.

It was pretty easy to recognize the day that the Lord put a little extra suffering on me. That whole week was bad actually, lol. I hope it helped but that's what He said to do.

It sorta makes sense to me because God is fair, so there's prolly a measured amount of suffering due to each man and woman while on earth. Some may suffer worse tragedy than others, but it would have to be made up in the Lords reward to them or something but it will be fair and just for each. That's a given I think.

So there's ways that we can give even without money changing hands. We don't see the fruit of it, all that happens is you have a very crappy day. But the Lord did promise to not put more upon us than we can bear! And to Pray unceasingly.

 

[Edward]

That's very interesting Edward. The experiment on the test tube shown that it has a lasting effect even after the DNA was removed.
I believe we affect everyone we meet in some way or another. But we don't really think about it often, if ever.
I remember a lady that I didn't know passed me on public transport, and for some reason she made me feel a deep sadness. Of course I will never I know why. It was years ago but I will never forget her or the feeling.

Another time a man was walking in front of me and I felt evil was there.

Too true about how important love. What a huge responsibility but so rewarding

Yes! Even after the DNA is removed. So DNA affects matter. On the quantum level, everything is made out of photons. Scripture has said this all along too! It says Whoever asks unwavering shall tell this mountain to move and it will obey.

When does that happen? I'm glad you asked, (lol), It happens when logic and emotion are one. When the child is pinned under the car in the accident, and the mother's emotion and logic agree, I have to do it. Unwavering. So picks up the car to save the child. We've all heard these stories many times over the years.

That is the language that moves the Holy Spirit. When heart and mind agree. The whole spirit vs flesh thing. So we walk with God and be led of the spirit so that the Lord can be with us long enough to change our hearts in the slow process of sanctification and growth. I've noticed that I am regaining my sensitivity more than it was before. I was trained as man to only be so sensitive and only with certain people. I never wept watching any movie I ever seen, until the Passion of the Christ. Wow.