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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Matthew 16:19
- Thread starter Classik
- Start date
I believe Jesus is saying that we have power to overcome the world and that power is in Jesus that is in us.
M
Mitspa
Guest
In the gospel, we see the truth and the principle that we have died with Christ, we are raised with Him and seated with Him in the heavens. This is all a matter of spiritual revelation. TRUE IN SPIRIT not in flesh. It is also written that we are blessed with Him with "all spiritual blessings in the heavens" Now as we grow in grace and knowledge "the key" the Cross. And through death with Him. we enter into the eternal laws of God. Which are the laws of faith and others. Faith believes that which is true IN CHRIST, and speaks those things here upon the earth. "we call those things that be not as if they were" "we have the same Spirit of faith, we believe therefore we speak"
True faith, enters into the truth of heaven, and brings those things into the natural realm. True faith is depends upon whether we see ourself IN CHRIST? the Cross is that key!
For at the Cross, we die with Him. If one will not go there with Him, they will not be able to have this faith, that enters in the heavenly blessings.
It is written that He would lay the "key of David upon His Shoulder" This is the Cross!
Blessings to all who take up the Cross!
True faith, enters into the truth of heaven, and brings those things into the natural realm. True faith is depends upon whether we see ourself IN CHRIST? the Cross is that key!
For at the Cross, we die with Him. If one will not go there with Him, they will not be able to have this faith, that enters in the heavenly blessings.
It is written that He would lay the "key of David upon His Shoulder" This is the Cross!
Blessings to all who take up the Cross!
Last edited by a moderator:
The keys of the kingdom is that power that we receive by the Holy Spirit that everything we do in picking up our cross to follow Christ is done by His power that works in us and through us as there is nothing we can do of ourselves.
Acts 1:
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1:
1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
M
Mitspa
Guest
I agree its all by grace, but we also must "renew" our minds by the truth and yeild to the Spirit of Grace.
Grow in grace and knowledge is our part, also we have that battle against our own flesh and Cross is the "key" to winning that battle. The scriptures are not in vain, that tell us we must reckon ourselves dead with Christ. Nor that we are to walk in the Spirit and love. Our part is to yeild to Gods will, by rejection of the will of the "old man" which is the flesh.
Only then does one enter into that which is true in heaven and by faith be bring that will of God to this world.
A
Aardverk
Guest
You, and a couple of other responders seem to be assuming that these words apply to you. Given that it was specifically addressed to Peter, why make that leap of assumption?
I do realize that some people claim that Jesus' words were addressed to the apostles, and not just to Peter, but why extend it to include all Christians? Isn't that a little presumptuous?
You, and a couple of other responders seem to be assuming that these words apply to you. Given that it was specifically addressed to Peter, why make that leap of assumption?
I do realize that some people claim that Jesus' words were addressed to the apostles, and not just to Peter, but why extend it to include all Christians? Isn't that a little presumptuous?
If it's not addressed to all believers, then what meaning does it have to us?
M
Mitspa
Guest
You, and a couple of other responders seem to be assuming that these words apply to you. Given that it was specifically addressed to Peter, why make that leap of assumption?
I do realize that some people claim that Jesus' words were addressed to the apostles, and not just to Peter, but why extend it to include all Christians? Isn't that a little presumptuous?
What? So I guess since no one living was there when Jesus Spoke, that He was not speaking to anyone alive now???
you need not to believe anything? But we christians know that all scripture is Given by God and is good for instruction and learning. All the promises of God are yes and amen, in Him.
I guess if you dont know Him? you cannot understand that all His words are to His People.
A
Aardverk
Guest
I am sure you know the words which precede it.
I think from memory it was Barnes Analysis which said that if it were not for the Great Schism and the Protestant movement, we would all read those words in a literal manner. That seems to me to be extremely likely. I feel that it takes extreme imagination to read them in any way other than a child would read them. The fact that the majority of the world's Christians read them the same way I do is not my reason for interpreting them that way, it is just a matter of language rather than vivid imagination.
A
Aardverk
Guest
It is you doing the assuming, not me. He was speaking specifically to Simon, yet many people, for some reason, claim he was speaking to all the apostles. You are now claiming that he was also speaking to you. I guess this is the old 'rock' = 'faith' argument - is that the problem?
In which case one would have thought the 'we Christians' would all believe the same thing. Please look at my last post. You hold a minority view interpretation yet you are telling me that my majority view interpretation is wrong. Why should I accept your view?
Keep guessing. :gah
Mr. Aardverk, you are reading the Bible from a worldly point of view.
This is why you don't understand.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4
This is why you don't understand.
And you are always speaking derogatory of our childish interpretations.
Matthew 11:25-26
It is the Spirit of God that gives us understanding as God reveals the truth to each and everyone of us.
Without the Spirit of God to guide you to the truth, you are left out in the cold.
That's why it is the simple faith of a child that will bring you to God.
You, and a couple of other responders seem to be assuming that these words apply to you. Given that it was specifically addressed to Peter, why make that leap of assumption?
I do realize that some people claim that Jesus' words were addressed to the apostles, and not just to Peter, but why extend it to include all Christians? Isn't that a little presumptuous?
Aardverk, after reading the OP, I was betting on you getting involved in this one!
Weren't you and I discussing this not too long ago? I've thought long about this, and although I do want to believe Jesus was speaking to all the apostles, that's not what it says. He was speaking directly to Peter (that's not to say Peter was the rock Jesus built his Church on). Do all apostles have the keys? Perhaps. I do believe that they had the way into the kingdom. But in this specific case, Jesus was giving Peter the keys. While no Apostle was greater than the other, it would be hard to argue against the notion that Peter had a specific role that was unique amongst the apostles. He was often the first to speak and I'd dare say he took on the roll of spokesman. Sometimes it wasn't a good thing when Peter spoke.
Do "we" all have the keys? Yes, but only through a man of God who teaches.
M
Mitspa
Guest
The truth of binding and losing is revealed throughtout scripture. It does not ride upon this one scripture, altough this one scripture speaks great things. Now according to the rules of forum I am not allowed to speak against the false doctrines and traditions of a certain false chruch.
The truth of who Jesus Christ is, is THE ROCK upon which we all build. So if we have this truth as Peter has this truth? The scripture is very much speaking to ALL who believe.
So I go back to the truth that the "key" is in fact the Cross!
By which we are crucified to this world and come alive to God.
One should notice the rebuke that Peter recieved in this same chapter, for being MINDFUL of earthly things and not things of heaven!
THEN The Lord tells them THAT THEY MUST TAKE UP THE CROSS TO FOLLOW HIM. SAME CHAPTER.
for all who have ears to hear? The Cross is the KEY to the kingdom.
The truth of who Jesus Christ is, is THE ROCK upon which we all build. So if we have this truth as Peter has this truth? The scripture is very much speaking to ALL who believe.
So I go back to the truth that the "key" is in fact the Cross!
By which we are crucified to this world and come alive to God.
One should notice the rebuke that Peter recieved in this same chapter, for being MINDFUL of earthly things and not things of heaven!
THEN The Lord tells them THAT THEY MUST TAKE UP THE CROSS TO FOLLOW HIM. SAME CHAPTER.
for all who have ears to hear? The Cross is the KEY to the kingdom.
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
When Jesus asked his disciples Peter was the only one who knew who Jesus was as it was revealed to him by God. Upon that bit of Spiritual knowledge Jesus told Peter and the rest of the disciples that upon this truth (rock) Gods true Church will be founded on that Spiritual knowledge as Christ being the head of the assembling. Jesus also gave the commission in Matthew 28:18-20 for the disciples to go and teach his word, but also in Acts 1:8 they had to wait to be empowered by the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended to be with the Father. This empowerment (keys) from the Holy Spirit also extends to those of Matthew 16:24 that have also picked up their cross to follow in that great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 as we can do nothing of ourselves, but can do all things through Christ as we have received the keys (knowledge of power which is the Holy Spirit given to us) of Gods kingdom.
When Jesus asked his disciples Peter was the only one who knew who Jesus was as it was revealed to him by God. Upon that bit of Spiritual knowledge Jesus told Peter and the rest of the disciples that upon this truth (rock) Gods true Church will be founded on that Spiritual knowledge as Christ being the head of the assembling. Jesus also gave the commission in Matthew 28:18-20 for the disciples to go and teach his word, but also in Acts 1:8 they had to wait to be empowered by the Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended to be with the Father. This empowerment (keys) from the Holy Spirit also extends to those of Matthew 16:24 that have also picked up their cross to follow in that great commission of Matthew 28:18-20 as we can do nothing of ourselves, but can do all things through Christ as we have received the keys (knowledge of power which is the Holy Spirit given to us) of Gods kingdom.
M
Mitspa
Guest
I agree but where does the power to deny oneself come from?
The sciptures are VERY CLEAR! that unless one becomes as a fool at His Cross they cannot be made made wise by His Life.
The Cross is the Key! For in it we see and reckon ourselves to be dead with Him. For unless one has died with Him they may have a religious mindset, but they cannot have the "mind of the Spirit" So again THE CROSS IS THE KEY OF DAVID THAT HE LAID UPON HIS SHOULDER.
Isa 22:22 And the KEY of the house of David will I lay upon His shoulder, so he shall open, and none shall shut; and He shall shut and none shall open
22:23 And I will fasten Him as with a NAIL, in a sure place.
This is clearly the Cross! and the Cross is clearly the Key!
A
Aardverk
Guest
I'm afraid you have completely misread my words allenwynne. I proposed that it should be read as a child would read it. Any other interpretation calls for a huge amount of assumption. Don't forget that the majority of Christians read it exactly the same way I do and as a child would. I am the one proposing the simple faith of a child! It is other people who have a sophistic interpretation.
A
Aardverk
Guest
There is nothing in the forum rules against you discussing the beliefs of the various Orthodox Churches. You can therefore comment upon the majority Orthodox + ............ view with impunity.
Now that you have made clear your view that 'rock' = 'faith', I am sure you can also explain why Jesus deliberately changed Simon's name to 'rock' and later said to him, 'Thou art 'Peter' (rock) and upon this 'rock' I will build my assembly'. Dismissing that very obvious link calls for a huge stretch of the imagination. The only reason for the fairly common Protestant interpretation is to get away from the Orthodox and Catholic claims to apostolic succession. That sees pretty obvious to me - as an impartial observer.
A
Aardverk
Guest
Yes 'hehe', I can.
The majority of the world's Christians are Catholics and Orthodox. The obvious, child-like interpretation is also the official interpretation that they put upon it. It is implausible that any Catholic or any Orthodox Christian would use the sophistic interpretation that is being put upon it here. Why on earth would they? It runs counter to a major tenet of their belief.
'You see the point?'