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Bible Study Matthew 23

thessalonian said:
John, I'm not a jesuit and your not rational. :-?
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***
Again: Here is the post that [my post] was responding to!

Hi, John here:
Just wondering if [anyone] is so [blind] as to not see what jesuit tactic's are, & where they 'originate' & came from???
Even if perhaps most or some do not agree with any poster? but when we see 'A post' twisted by any persons comments, as the below one is, then it is classified as nothing less than is seen in 2 Corinthians 2:4 Does that make sense? In other words, read both posts & see if that is what Henry was talking about? [HARDLY!]

*******
Me again: I have over & over stated that I try to reply to posts! Re/read.

OK: Now, did it say that [you] were a jesuit??? Even though surely we have many who have invaded Prostestant churchs because the Word of God tell's what it does in Revelation 17:1-5. (and Rome needs unity to get Caesar to combine 'HER' church & state for 666)

The post said that by twisting, and being deceitful about what Henry was actually saying, was a jesuit tactic! The verse of 2 Corinthians 2:4 was used to verify how satan works. It says:
"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, [not walking in craftiness, nor handling the Word of God deceitfully]; .." 2 Cor. 4:2 (in part)

Here is my take on this verse & the tactics that jesuits use. (according to the oath recorded elsewhere) And it goes way back to the rebellion in heaven! It comes from a little book called The Mount of Blessings (in part & with some highlights)

".. if there is anyone who can consistantly testify under oath, it is a Christian. (I believe that!) ... Jesus proceeded to lay down [a principle] that would make oath taking needless. He teaches that [the exact] truth should be the law of speech. "Let your speech be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: and whatsoever is more than these is of the evil one." R.V. ...

They condemn the deceptive compliments, [the evasion] of truth, the flattering phrases, [the exaggerations], ... They teach that [no one that tries to appear what he is not, or whose words do not convey the real sentiment of his heart, can be called truthful]. ...

How often pride, passion, personal resentment, [color the impression given!] [A glance, a word, even an intonation of the voice, may be vital with falsehood]. [**Even facts may be so stated as to convey a false impression.] And whatsoever is more than truth, "is of the evil one."

Everything that Christians do 'should be as transparent as the sunlight. Truth is of God; [deception, in every one of its myriad forms, is of satan; and whoever in any way departs from the straight line of truth is betraying himself into the power of the wicked one]."

And the two [postings] are not hard to see where the difference lies?? (Heavenly Father and blood on earth father of Exodus 20:12)

Personally?? :wink: I think that the 'person' Henry is getting a bum rap by many folk of this site!
 
I thought this was interesting, it comes from another site. --John
_______

Quote: You're confusing Cephas (the rock) with Jesus (the Rock of Ages). Jesus is the FOUNDATION of the Church and He chose His disciples and gave each one a role to play. John, His beloved, was to live on long enough to receive His Revelation. Judas was to betray Him. Peter was to establish His Church on the Day of Pentecost and was to offer salvation to the Gentiles. Just because you don't like Jesus calling Peter a rock (even though that is EXACTLY how his name translates) because Jesus is the Rock, you can't deny what Jesus said.

Peter didn't remove the cornerstone that is Jesus, he built upon it.

__

John here:
Well I do not see it this way. Surely there has been many different and [perhaps] persuasive thought on this? (1 John 4:6 - 2 Peter 3:16) That Peter is the rock, that Peter's faith in Christ is the rock, that Jesus Himself, is the Rock. I hold to the last one! And I am confused?

Thanks, that tells me heap's about your understanding of the Master's Word.

For me to understand what Peter was, would best be learned by what Peter himself believed it meant? He emphatically disclaims that the rock of what Christ stated referred to him! Acts 4:8-12, 1 Peter 2:4-8. (if Peter is this stone, so am 'i' see verses 2-5!!

And what does Christ say?? Notice Matthew 21:42,
(was this Peter? Hardly!) Luke 20:17-18. The HEAD of the CORNER! The old T. ones new who the ROCK was. See Deuteronomy 32:4 (A PERFECT ROCK!) & Psalm 18:2 (who again is this? Peter? Pretty clear 'me' thinks!) and Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:4 tells that this ROCK WAS CHRIST! And was this not Christ's FOLD?

And Isaiah 32:2 is so clear!!! "I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: (Peter???) he that 'believeth' shall not make hast." Isaiah 28:16.

[I will agree] that there is a close connection with Christ "the chief corner stone" in the foundation of the one True Fold (Ephesians. 4:5) [and] the apostles with the prophets. Ephesians 2:20 & then of course chapter 4:11-16 verses. (and even us, as was pointed out in 1 Peter 2:5)

But Peter a rock??? No, I do not agree with this assumption in any way!
 
John,

Your post is very confusing. First of all it is difficult to tell who is confused. Though I lean toward both. Your friend has left out a third possibility for Mt 16:18, that Jesus is the rock, Peter is the rock and that Peter's faith is intimately intertwined with why it can be said that he is the rock as well as Christ. One thing you are surely confused about is that the Church is build on rock. (see Matt 7). It is no contradiction that Peter could be this rock and Christ could be this rock any more than it is a contradition that Jesus is the foundation (1 Cor 3:11) and prophets and apostles are the foundation (Eph 2:20) or that Chirst is the light of the world and Christians are the light of the world. Christians being the body of Christ are the light of the world.

You claim that Acts 4:8-12, 1 Peter 2:4-8. obvuscate Jesus words where he says that Peter is the rock upon which he will build his church (the obvious meaning ,especially since there there can be shown to be no transition from Jesus to Peter in v. 16:19 when Jesus says Peter gets the keys). What you are confused with is that in acts 4:8-12, it is talking about the stone, rejected by the builders, i.e. the cornerstone. This is not the rock the Church is built on as a type of the Church but a different type, getting a different point accross than the rock beneath the Church upon which the Church is built. 1 Pet 2:4-8 is speaking of the stones that make up the Church which sit upon the foundation, upon the substate rock, upon which the winds will blow and the rain will fall but the building will not. You seem to be having a hard time making these obvious divisions in the Word of God. By the way, the Catholic Church does not in any way deny that Christ is the head of the Church.

Blessings to you my confused friend.
 
"it can be said that he is the rock as well as Christ." What !

You say that Peter is JESUS too? OH brother and we pray to our COREDEMPRTIX MARY hmmm oh and all the "saints" lets not forget that demi-god list and of course the god on earth the dope, I mean the pope.

Paganism refined and defined, good job.
 
We do not say that Peter is literally Christ but in a figurative sense he is for Christ worked in and through him. That is the message of Eph 3:20-21.

Are the apostles and prophets Jesus Henry? Jesus is the foundation and so are the prophets and apostles. Are we to be Christ for one another Henry? The light of the world? Christ is the light of the world. But then he also says of his followers "you are the light of the world".

Let's see if a = b. And b = c then a = c. In some sense it must be true.

Paul says:

Gal.2
[20] I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Do you not recall that when Paul was struck down off his horse Jesus said "Saul, Saul, why do you persecuted ME!". Were the Christians being persecuted which motivated this statement literally Christ? They were Christ working in the world by his grace through them. These things you call paganism. :sad It is too bad you do not understand these things Henry. I pray that someday you will.
 
We do not say that Peter is literally Christ but in a figurative sense he is for Christ worked in and through him. That is the message of Eph 3:20-21.

Are the apostles and prophets Jesus Henry? Jesus is the foundation and so are the prophets and apostles. Are we to be Christ for one another Henry? The light of the world? Christ is the light of the world. But then he also says of his followers "you are the light of the world".

****
John here: (check the red highlight)

OK: You are the light of the world??? (well, that is left between God & you, but your postings surely are not! :sad)

And why was Judas dis/carded as one of the 12. He too was the light of the world, huh? Perhaps the answer to this question is what you 'posts' are void of??????

NO: There is no one that knowingly disobeys for long Acts 5:32 who will retain any of Christ's Righteousness.. LIGHT! See Gen. 4:7 in the K.J. And as Judas was rejected, so will anyone else be rejected who is anti/christ in any sense of known truth, be it a person or a whole/Christ/less 'fold'. Revelation 17:5 & Revelation 2:5 + 1 John 2:4
 
There is but one Christ and he said there would be fakes, yet he alone is the Christ. Peter is not Christ, you are not and I am not.

We are to be tools in the hands of the Lord to serve one another because of what Christ has done for us, but NO we are not Christ to eachother.

That would mean we can save each other and we cannot.
 
Henry,

It is too bad your cannot grasp what the scripture plainly say. Are there two lights of Christ such that the light of Christ that Christians are to the world is a different one than Christ himself? Are there two foundations such that the Church is built on a different foundation than Christ when it is built on prophets and Apostles? Does Christ have two bodies so that the body spoken of in Romans 12 is not his?

Think upon these things Henry.

Blessings
 
You are so silly, if you realy understood the word of God you would not be a catholic and worship popes and marys.

Silly boy
 
It makes me gigle when a catholic thinks himself a teacher of the word, oh brother.
 
thessalonian said:
Henry,

It is too bad your cannot grasp what the scripture plainly say. Are there two lights of Christ such that the light of Christ that Christians are to the world is a different one than Christ himself? Are there two foundations such that the Church is built on a different foundation than Christ when it is built on prophets and Apostles? Does Christ have two bodies so that the body spoken of in Romans 12 is not his?

Think upon these things Henry.

Blessings
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******
Is [your post] talking to only Henry? Perhaps you need to ask 'yourself' about what God tells [all of us] in Jeremiah 17:5 on. You know, the cat.. book, pluss the heap & heaps of tradition that Rome braggs of having and is above and beyond the Bible?! :sad
The ARM OF (uninspired) FLESH! Be careful as in Matthew 12:31-32!!
---John
 
+JMJ+

You are so silly, if you realy understood the word of God you would not be a catholic and worship popes and marys
Click to expand...

Understood the Word of God....as you understand it?

Is [your post] talking to only Henry? Perhaps you need to ask 'yourself' about what God tells [all of us] in Jeremiah 17:5 on. You know, the cat.. book, pluss the heap & heaps of tradition that Rome braggs of having and is above and beyond the Bible?!
The ARM OF (uninspired) FLESH! Be careful as in Matthew 12:31-32!!
---John
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John,

What makes the Bible infallible?
 
Henry,

Is that all you have come to on this board is mocking and ridicule. You seem to have no arguements left. Sad.
 
John the Baptist said:
thessalonian said:
Henry,

It is too bad your cannot grasp what the scripture plainly say. Are there two lights of Christ such that the light of Christ that Christians are to the world is a different one than Christ himself? Are there two foundations such that the Church is built on a different foundation than Christ when it is built on prophets and Apostles? Does Christ have two bodies so that the body spoken of in Romans 12 is not his?

Think upon these things Henry.

Blessings
Click to expand...

******
Is [your post] talking to only Henry? Perhaps you need to ask 'yourself' about what God tells [all of us] in Jeremiah 17:5 on. You know, the cat.. book, pluss the heap & heaps of tradition that Rome braggs of having and is above and beyond the Bible?! :sad
The ARM OF (uninspired) FLESH! Be careful as in Matthew 12:31-32!!
---John

PS:
Click to expand...
5 This is what the LORD says:
"Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.
 
Thanks for your concern John.

We do not brag about the revelation of God that is carried in the spoken word and written word("hold fast to the traditions you have recieved, whether by WORD OF MOUTH or in writing from us"). We only gaurd them and pass them along. The Bible never says that it alone is the sole rule of faith. Sorry. Sacred oral tradition is not above scripture. It is in intimate union with it. But I do not expect you to understand these things. For what you have running around in those nuerons in your mind is what you think is true. You trust in your own understanding John. See prov 3:5. :-?
 
You are not interested in the word of God but the words of men, you pervert and twist Gods word to fit you pagan doctrines. There is no argument in such a case, I can only pray that the Lord does not allow you to fool anyone with the lies of the pope.
 
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