Maybe an unpopular idea

[Gary]

Why is baptism a spiritual circumcision? Do you consider the physical act to have any spiritual significance?

Putting on Christ and being baptized are not the same.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

God's promise to Israel has yet to come.
They must wait for the full number of Gentiles to come.
All Israel will be saved as God's gifts are irrevocable.

Romans 11:25-32;

 

[reba]

Some one told me my great grandfather was Jewish.. Does that mean to you, i am saved no matter what?

I do not believe salvation is in the blood in any mans veins ...Salvation is in His Blood..

 

[reba]

Lets see a person is the child of one Jewish parent is the child half saved?


Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
Jos 21:44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.
Jos 21:45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

 

[jasonc]

If I buy a plane ticket to Israel, and they drop me off in a place they call Israel, then I just take their word for that. Anything more is far more complicated than I care to get involved with.

isreal is the people. if isreal were to be leveled, and it was for centuries. modern isreal uhm isn't really biblical isreal. where is the temple? oh ancient isreal has secular government? they allowed pagans? what? the people are the nation not the land. Im not less part of isreal then when im here or in Jerusalem. question, how does one draw close to God in Christianity?
how does one draw closer to god in Judiasm?. if you answer the same you don't understand what Judaism teaches and what the bible once said.

reba, heaven and earth. hint.

 

[reba]

Gen_22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

 

[Brother Mike]

isreal is the people. if isreal were to be leveled, and it was for centuries. modern isreal uhm isn't really biblical isreal. where is the temple? oh ancient isreal has secular government? they allowed pagans? what? the people are the nation not the land. Im not less part of isreal then when im here or in Jerusalem. question, how does one draw close to God in Christianity?
how does one draw closer to god in Judiasm?. if you answer the same you don't understand what Judaism teaches and what the bible once said.

reba, heaven and earth. hint.

How would my plane reach Israel if it was leveled? Anything else is far to complicated for me.

 

[reba]

Mount Hermon at 2,224 meters (7,297 ft). is the highest peak.. it is almost level

The sons of Abraham were/are a nation before they had the land we call Israel.. They were a nation before they went into Babylon .. While there. They were/are a nation before 1948..

 

[tim-from-pa]

It seems like the great majority of Christians believe that geographical Israel and the Jews (whether Messianic or not) are Gods chosen. People are in cahoots watching Israel like prophesy watchdogs (not that anything is wrong with keeping watch).

It seems to me like it's possible that Israel is not necessarily the geographic location, but the body of Christ. And likewise we that have put on Christ are spiritual Jews, as He is no respecter of persons.

Can you help validate our invalidate my thought on this scripturally?

I can't validate you, because Israel is God's chosen, but they are chosen of race whereas since the new testament some people (including Jews) are chosen of grace. The former is a physical people, a nation and King which was the forerunner and type of the latter to come, which BTW, will also be a heavenly Kingdom and government here on this earth to replace the corrupt ones. It will be the start of the Kingdom throughout all eternity.

Have you ever wondered why the ancient people of Israel were never offered salvation or given the holy Spirit of God (save a few people), but rather the commandments, and what the whole point of that was? That fact does not make them any less chosen, as if, as you propose and I agree, all the matters in the end is salvation and eternal life. Since they died without the Spirit, they will be raised to life physically and offered salvation later (and the same with anyone who never were thus called) See Ezekiel 37.

I'll let this thought with you from J.H. Allen's book, Judah's Sceptre/Jospeh's Birthright in which he compares the two types of chosen using scripture:


If it is a question of race election, and the fidelity of the Divine promise is at stake, it can be asserted that the will of God, independent of the will of others, can cause certain conditions to obtain; "that the purpose of God according to election might stand" -- not in the good or evil works, or unholy natures of unborn babes, "but of him that calleth."


When the call of God is of racial, or of national import, God can say: "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel my called." But if it is a question of personal election to the grace of salvation, then faithful men of God may exhort other men, saying: "Give diligence to make your calling and election sure."


When it is race, it is, "Whom I (God) have chosen."


When it is grace, it is, "Whosoever will, may come and take the water of life freely."


When it is race, it is, "I have called thee by my name; thou art mine." In grace it is "Whosoever believeth," of whom the Lord says: "They are mine.”


In grace it is, "Come."


In race it is fate, destiny, kismet.


One is a chosen race, and the other is a chosen way. The way is by faith that it might be of grace, but the choice of race is according to the predetermined and predestined purpose of God.


In race election it is generation, or born of the flesh.


In the election of grace it is regeneration, or born of the Spirit.

In grace it is, "Whosoever offereth praise glorifieth me;" but in race, it is, "This people have I formed for myself; they SHALL show forth my praise."

 

[LovethroughDove]

Galatians 4:24-26 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

 

[jasonc]

How would my plane reach Israel if it was leveled? Anything else is far to complicated for me.

Jerusalem wasn't just built under the un declaration. jews were already there and fyi jews never left isreal. they just didn't live in that city till centuries later after ad 70. the jews that claimed the right to the land weren't the European jews, but those that lived in the area called Transjordan.

 

[jasonc]

Mount Hermon at 2,224 meters (7,297 ft). is the highest peak.. it is almost level

The sons of Abraham were/are a nation before they had the land we call Israel.. They were a nation before they went into Babylon .. While there. They were/are a nation before 1948..

I add this, when you consider the millennium as taught the jews will have to leave isreal to teach the world about jesus. so what is the point of that land then and no one answered why isreal was or my question about how to draw close to god in Judaism and Christianity.

 

[jeff77]

I am related to Adam & Eve and so was Abraham. Does this make me Jewish in some way?

 

[tim-from-pa]

I am related to Adam & Eve and so was Abraham. Does this make me Jewish in some way?

Nope. Not even Israelites are all Jews but are cousins derived from God's two chosen nations; one day these two groups will be rejoined (Ezekiel 37). It's all in following the family tree since Jews post-dated Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) all came first. Your patriarchal lineage for all we know ante-dated Jews.

 

[LovethroughDove]

I am related to Adam & Eve and so was Abraham. Does this make me Jewish in some way?

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

This is why Jesus said "Yes" when Pilate asked him if he is the "king of the Jews?" Mark 15:2

So, I would say that I am a Jew inwardly. (even though I am not Jewish)

 

[Gary]

It seems like the great majority of Christians believe that geographical Israel and the Jews (whether Messianic or not) are Gods chosen. People are in cahoots watching Israel like prophesy watchdogs (not that anything is wrong with keeping watch).

It seems to me like it's possible that Israel is not necessarily the geographic location, but the body of Christ. And likewise we that have put on Christ are spiritual Jews, as He is no respecter of persons.

Can you help validate our invalidate my thought on this scripturally?

Here's something you might find interesting.

.

 

[junkyardmystic]

It seems like the great majority of Christians believe that geographical Israel and the Jews (whether Messianic or not) are Gods chosen. People are in cahoots watching Israel like prophesy watchdogs (not that anything is wrong with keeping watch).

It seems to me like it's possible that Israel is not necessarily the geographic location, but the body of Christ. And likewise we that have put on Christ are spiritual Jews, as He is no respecter of persons.

Can you help validate our invalidate my thought on this scripturally?

I don't think I can.