Maybe Animals Really Do Have Souls?

[Link1983]

trees and in Jewish thought ,planets
have a ruach.it doesn't imply,that the sun etc have a soul.this isn't as you say .its more then one word for soul in Hebrew .
ruach,nephesh,nephesh chayah,and the other word for connection to God .

a tree may breathe but God didn't breath it life like man

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
Romans 8:19‭-‬24 ESV

Romans 8:19-24 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creatio | English Standard Version 2016 (E

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creatio

bible.com

 

[jasonc]

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
Romans 8:19‭-‬24 ESV

Romans 8:19-24 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creatio | English Standard Version 2016 (E

For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creatio

bible.com

a rock has a spirit in the Jewish thought ,that view predates Paul

 

[GodsGrace]

My dear Sister, how many scriptures do you want? In my original post the scripture commands all on earth to praise God, and this is worship (!) Prayer is no obligation, it is privilege. God's Spirit is absolutely everywhere. Let's look in Jeremiah...

Jeremiah 23:23-24


23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?

24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.../

So does "any" include animals? Does "Fill Heaven and Earth" not include anything at all? Is God not omnipresent with all of His creation?

Now don't get me wrong Sister, I'm not saying that animals are on the same level as man. Just that, they have their own walk here. They have spirit, soul, personality...some do bad things while others have done good and saved lives. Scripture says clearly that all of the earth is filled with the Lord. Even the trees and rocks.

Psalm 96:


7 Give unto the Lord, O ye kindreds of the people, give unto the Lord glory and strength.

8 Give unto the Lord the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come into his courts.

9 O worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.

10 Say among the heathen that the Lord reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.

11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad; let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof.

12 Let the field be joyful, and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice

13 Before the Lord: for he cometh, for he cometh to judge the earth: he shall judge the world with righteousness, and the people with his truth.../

"then shall all the trees rejoice?" !!! Oh my goodness. I think that's huge. Ok, I get it. God is everywhere here. He is in everything. He is beside everything. He probably speaks to everything. So no one or nothing that has ever lived in this world has ever had any real privacy anytime or anywhere. But I don't want to go off topic.

We just can't speak dog or cat language, that's all. Or tree language. So we can't understand them when the talk and sing.

No scripture necessary Ed.
No faith...no salvation.
No salvation...no heaven.

If MAN is separated from God unless he knows Christ....
just imagine HOW an animal can know Christ???
He cannot.

You can go back to the O.T. for some verse....but

1. Revelation is progressive. In the O.T. there is no mention of hell as we know it after Jesus,,,some did not even believe in the after-life. (the Sadducees included).

2. There's a lot of poetry in the O.T. I doubt persons, even back then, believed a tree could worship God.

3. Animals don't worship God...only those aware of His presence worship Him. Some mentally handicapped PERSONS can't worship God - let alone an animal.

Corinthians 15:39
39All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish.

Also,

1 Corinthians 15:50
50Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom...then Paul goes on to speak about MAN.
Also, Jesus died for men....through the first man we are lost,,,through the last Man, we are saved. Nowhere is there any talk about animals.

 

[GodsGrace]

The whole universe is alive and sings praises to God.

Poetically....
not literally.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Poetically....
not literally.

Tell that to God who created those sounds.

 

[jasonc]

Poetically....
not literally.

Jewish thought i suggest reading it

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jewish thought i suggest reading it

Now why read Jewish thought?
Most Christians don't even read Christian thought.
Maybe we should all read eskimo thought and learn something.

 

[jasonc]

Jeff and myself have conversed on this often .

when we kill and decimate nature to build paradise for us,it pales to what God made.

the way the trees and animals act speak to God .

 

[jasonc]

Now why read Jewish thought?
Most Christians don't even read Christian thought.
Maybe we should all read eskimo thought and learn something.

because Jesus didn't die in Rome ,for the Romans ,the promise was to isreal first.they alone have a tongue ,culture based on the God who made them.one doesn't start learning English from the bible,but one always learns Hebrew from the tanach

 

[Edward]

Flesh and blood does not inherit the Kingdom...then Paul goes on to speak about MAN.
Also, Jesus died for men....through the first man we are lost,,,through the last Man, we are saved. Nowhere is there any talk about animals.

There is talk about animals in Genesis 9. If animals have no spirit or do not have any awareness of God then God would not need to make a covenant with them also as is seen in Genesis 9.

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

...and with every living creature. Seems pretty clear?

 

[GodsGrace]

There is talk about animals in Genesis 9. If animals have no spirit or do not have any awareness of God then God would not need to make a covenant with them also as is seen in Genesis 9.








...and with every living creature. Seems pretty clear?

Not clear at all Ed.
Covenants are made with man...not with animals.

God only says that man and animals will no longer be killed off with a flood.
Or trees, for that matter.

I hate posting commentaries, but here's one, and you can read others.
God made His covenant (unconditional) with Noah, not with any animal.
Unconditional means that GOD makes the rules and man has nothing to do with
the turn out. In this case, God's covenant is with MAN but includes, our of necessity, also the animals on the earth that will never again suffer from a flood from God,,,and also the flora and fauna of the earth. It is a general idea....
but, can animals be aware of an agreement with God?
No.


The parties to the covenant must be noticed. Note how frequently the share in it, which all living creatures have, is referred to in the context. In Genesis 9:10 the language becomes strained {in the original}, in order to express the universal participation of all living creatures; and in Genesis 9:13 ‘the earth’ itself is spoken of as one party. God recognises obligations to all living things, and even to the dumb, non-sentient earth. He will not causelessly quench one bright, innocent life, nor harm one clod. Surely this is, at least, an incipient revelation of a God whose ‘tender mercies are over all his works.’ He ‘doth take care for oxen’; and man, with all the creatures that are with him, and all the wild ones that ‘come not near’ him, and all the solid structure of the world, are held in one covenant of protecting and sustaining providence and power.


It should also be noted that God gave animals to man for food.
Man cannot kill man because both are in the image of God.
God did not even accept Cain's murder in Genesis and would curse anyone
that killed Cain because the LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.

Is not the life in the blood of animals then?
IF, indeed, they have a spirit?
The why would God give animals to man for food?

 

[GodsGrace]

Tell that to God who created those sounds.

So you agree that a tree and a cat can worship God?
POETICALLY ALL of earth can worship.
But do they really and literally?
Do trees pray to God?
Do cats pray before going to sleep?
Do they have devotion time?
Do they wonder if God will be upset if they're mean to the cat next door
who wandered onto their territory?

I don't think so.

 

[Susannah]

When I was studying psychology the teacher tried to teach us that animals do not have feelings. There was a name for it but I have forgotten it. I walked out of the class because I knew the scientists had just made that up to condone torturing animals in experiments.

My dog is named Mi after St Michael the arc angel. He is a anatolian shepherd who definitely has emotions and a soul. Once he jumped off the balcony of a second story apartment to rescue me from someone he thought was hurting me.

I keep him in doors a lot for his companionship and he stays close to the door in case there is an intruder.

His primary emotion is unconditional love which he gives me every day. He was a gift from God.

 

[Edward]

Not clear at all Ed.
Covenants are made with man...not with animals.

God only says that man and animals will no longer be killed off with a flood.
Or trees, for that matter.

I hate posting commentaries, but here's one, and you can read others.
God made His covenant (unconditional) with Noah, not with any animal.
Unconditional means that GOD makes the rules and man has nothing to do with
the turn out. In this case, God's covenant is with MAN but includes, our of necessity, also the animals on the earth that will never again suffer from a flood from God,,,and also the flora and fauna of the earth. It is a general idea....
but, can animals be aware of an agreement with God?
No.


The parties to the covenant must be noticed. Note how frequently the share in it, which all living creatures have, is referred to in the context. In Genesis 9:10 the language becomes strained {in the original}, in order to express the universal participation of all living creatures; and in Genesis 9:13 ‘the earth’ itself is spoken of as one party. God recognises obligations to all living things, and even to the dumb, non-sentient earth. He will not causelessly quench one bright, innocent life, nor harm one clod. Surely this is, at least, an incipient revelation of a God whose ‘tender mercies are over all his works.’ He ‘doth take care for oxen’; and man, with all the creatures that are with him, and all the wild ones that ‘come not near’ him, and all the solid structure of the world, are held in one covenant of protecting and sustaining providence and power.


It should also be noted that God gave animals to man for food.
Man cannot kill man because both are in the image of God.
God did not even accept Cain's murder in Genesis and would curse anyone
that killed Cain because the LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.

Is not the life in the blood of animals then?
IF, indeed, they have a spirit?
The why would God give animals to man for food?

It did include animals. In Genesis 9 it says
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; (<semicolon is inclusive of what follows it)

10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

I establish my covenant with you and every living creature. That seems very clear to me. Maybe God gave animals to man for food and that is anaimals destiny and helps them in their much different walk.

I ate the Deer...and the Deer became human. :wink

 

[GodsGrace]

It did include animals. In Genesis 9 it says
8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; (<semicolon is inclusive of what follows it)

10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

I establish my covenant with you and every living creature. That seems very clear to me. Maybe God gave animals to man for food and that is anaimals destiny and helps them in their much different walk.

I ate the Deer...and the Deer became human. :wink

Oh yeah.
Well, I had polenta with wild boar about a month ago.
Yummy.
And don't think I wouldn't love to see all the cats I've had since I was a
tiny little girl .... it would be wonderful to see Spunky and Pallina again...
but I'm not holding my breath.



Happy now?

 

[Link1983]

a rock has a spirit in the Jewish thought ,that view predates Paul

Rock seems to be a strong symbol to God (my opinion)
"On this rock I will build my church"

 

[jasonc]

Rock seems to be a strong symbol to God (my opinion)
"On this rock I will build my church"

any object in judausm has that

 

[Link1983]

any object in judausm has that

Hmmm yes that sounds like it's true. I haven't studied this but it is definitely an interesting subject.
I have come to understand that nothing is trivial to God.
Symbolism and also stories seem to me more and more to have several layers and meanings..
Oh that's revelation there and gold for them that search and find some hidden truths.
Very interesting!

 

[Susannah]

Rock seems to be a strong symbol to God (my opinion)
"On this rock I will build my church"

When I was younger I had a dream. In the dream God appeared to me and asked me to write a book about a rock. So I looked the word rock up in the concordance and it is a metaphor for God. So far I've just written articles but someday it will be a book. Wht makes this interesting is that I did not believe in God at the time. But he knew someday I would come around.

 

[JLB]

Have you ever wondered what your dog was saying in dog language when it was barking or howling? I like watching animal videos and sometimes I think it seems like the only answer is they must be singing praises unto the Lord?! Scripture says all of creation do this so it must be true at times. Other times the good boy may be asking for the last slice of pizza that he's noticed you didn't eat, lol.

But when you have pondered such things, things will jump out at you later on in scripture that will remind me and offer even more insight to our minds meditations and ponderings. Ok, let me walk through this what I have.

I think it is a real possibility that animals do have souls, and that, their animal body is also a temporary dwelling just like ours.

Psalm 148:

Praise[a] the Lord!
Praise the Lord from the heavens;
Praise Him in the heights!
2 Praise Him, all His angels;
Praise Him, all His hosts!
3 Praise Him, sun and moon;
Praise Him, all you stars of light!
4 Praise Him, you heavens of heavens,
And you waters above the heavens!
5 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
For He commanded and they were created.
6 He also established them forever and ever;
He made a decree which shall not pass away.
7 Praise the Lord from the earth,
You great sea creatures and all the depths;
8 Fire and hail, snow and clouds;
Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;
9 Mountains and all hills;
Fruitful trees and all cedars;
10 Beasts and all cattle;
Creeping things and flying fowl;
11 Kings of the earth and all peoples;
Princes and all judges of the earth;
12 Both young men and maidens;
Old men and children.
13 Let them praise the name of the Lord,
For His name alone is exalted;
His glory is above the earth and heaven.../

With particular emphasis on verse 10, which would obviously include dogs & cats.

Psalm 150:6
Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.../

All the dogs that I have ever had breathe. A lot of them would start to howl if they heard a siren. IDK, maybe it sounds like a worship song to them? But seriously if scripture says all beasts which breathe are to sing praises unto God...then you can bet that it's true and that, we just don't understand what or perhaps when they do it. So how does this indicate that they may have a soul? Well come on, God obviously loves animals too, they are all over the earth and scripture names a bunch that are in heaven, and the Lord saw fit to save all of the animals from Noah's flood, right?! Animals were all over the Garden of Eden, sin was not there. If animals have the Spirit of life and sing praises unto God...the next thing you know God will be making covenant with them...!!! Oh, that's right. He already has! It's easy to gloss over exactly what this passage in Genesis says because it speaks of covenant with us, so we begin thinking about ourselves and our relationship with the Lord and gloss over the Animals are speciffically mentioned in the same passage!
Genesis 9:

8 And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

11 And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.../

This is clearly a covenant with animals as well as humans. So there you have it Brothers & Sisters. Animals have souls too. I doubt any would be condemned for sin. Animals were created a little lower than man, but are here to help us.

There are animals in heaven.

We will return on white horses.



JLB