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Maybe Animals Really Do Have Souls?

jasonc said:
animals have no free will,no,ability to ponder why they exist,no regret over killing their young ,dogs will eat their own ,a pig the same.

the lion doesn't worry over the morality of vegan vs carnivores.he just eats.
Click to expand...

Animals do so have free will Bro. You can see dogs and cats pondering things sometimes. Most cats are thieves. I've always trained my dogs to...don't do certain things, don't pee on the floor, don't get on the kitchen table and snatch food and stuff like that. And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

How in the world could you and wondering even possibly know for sure that, animals can't ponder or think, don't know God...How can you see inside an animal and be able to say such things that are likely impossible to know?! Is the presence of God unable to come upon an animal like He does with us humans?
 
jasonc said:
animals have no free will,no,ability to ponder why they exist,no regret over killing their young ,dogs will eat their own ,a pig the same.

the lion doesn't worry over the morality of vegan vs carnivores.he just eats.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I have seen videos on youtube and heard quite a few testimonies about when animals seemingly went against their nature and saved people's lives.
A 7 year old girl was kidnapped by 3 men in Africa somewhere and a pride of lions happened by and chased the three kidnappers away and then they all stayed with the little girl (a couple days I think?) until someone came by and took charge of the little girl, in another one a little 5 year old boy wandered out the back door and walked into the woods while his momma was busy and the boy spent the night in the snowy woods with no coat on, he said he woke up and there were Elk all around him and he was scared of them and tried to shoo them away but they slowly just surrounded him and laid down all around him and bedded down with him so their body heat kept the boy warm. When they found him the nexr day, they could easily see that big game had bedded down there. The boy was not hypothermia and was fine.

...and there's a lot more of these too. I think that in some of these cases it had to be the Spirit of God came over the animals and directed them to help. Other times it seems natural for animals to help, like protection with dogs and stuff. Saving kids in the pool and stuff.

They say no to this stuff...but there's just too much evidence in these days.
 
y jaay
Edward said:
Yes, but I have seen videos on youtube and heard quite a few testimonies about when animals seemingly went against their nature and saved people's lives.
A 7 year old girl was kidnapped by 3 men in Africa somewhere and a pride of lions happened by and chased the three kidnappers away and then they all stayed with the little girl (a couple days I think?) until someone came by and took charge of the little girl, in another one a little 5 year old boy wandered out the back door and walked into the woods while his momma was busy and the boy spent the night in the snowy woods with no coat on, he said he woke up and there were Elk all around him and he was scared of them and tried to shoo them away but they slowly just surrounded him and laid down all around him and bedded down with him so their body heat kept the boy warm. When they found him the nexr day, they could easily see that big game had bedded down there. The boy was not hypothermia and was fine.

...and there's a lot more of these too. I think that in some of these cases it had to be the Spirit of God came over the animals and directed them to help. Other times it seems natural for animals to help, like protection with dogs and stuff. Saving kids in the pool and stuff.

They say no to this stuff...but there's just too much evidence in these days.
Click to expand...
did ya think it wasn't an Animal,but God using a miracle ?

I have seen machines do weird things ,no electronic machine isn't,perfectly identical ,do you really want ignore that these don't have souls ?

take photos of known history like i do and yes they appear to do.

how many animals we have ate that well yeah about that .
 
Edward said:
Animals do so have free will Bro. You can see dogs and cats pondering things sometimes. Most cats are thieves. I've always trained my dogs to...don't do certain things, don't pee on the floor, don't get on the kitchen table and snatch food and stuff like that. And sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

How in the world could you and wondering even possibly know for sure that, animals can't ponder or think, don't know God...How can you see inside an animal and be able to say such things that are likely impossible to know?! Is the presence of God unable to come upon an animal like He does with us humans?
Click to expand...
when a primate says no.and decides to write poetry and form his own culture free from,enslavement by man ,only,then will you,have a case .

think planet of the apes .you are arguing that we aren't the only,special creation with free moral agency .

apes do have high intelligence they can use some of our language but never are they equal
 
jasonc said:
y jaay

did ya think it wasn't an Animal,but God using a miracle ?

I have seen machines do weird things ,no electronic machine isn't,perfectly identical ,do you really want ignore that these don't have souls ?

take photos of known history like i do and yes they appear to do.

how many animals we have ate that well yeah about that .
Click to expand...

I think it was God in some of them.

God didn't create machines, they don't breath so they have no soul. But! I have heard that it is possible for an evil spirit to go into a machine. Just hearsay, but who am I to say that's true, or not!

This kind of makes sense. If you pay attention, you will see things different than what we were taught.

Scripture talks about animals being food and so I *think* that it may be possible that...it's destiny is to be food for others and help in that way. ...?? Maybe.
 
jasonc said:
when a primate says no.and decides to write poetry and form his own culture free from,enslavement by man ,only,then will you,have a case .

think planet of the apes .you are arguing that we aren't the only,special creation with free moral agency .

apes do have high intelligence they can use some of our language but never are they equal
Click to expand...

...

I think they appear to make decisions and exercise free will. Are you aware of any scriptures I may have missed which suggest that animals do not have free will?

Right. Remember that Gorilla that protected the little boy from the others when he fell over the wall into the Gorilla enclosure in a zoo? He demonstrated protection of the boy...and they still shot the Gorilla! Eyes but can not see.
No way are they equal or any animal. And I am not evolved from an ape either, lol!
 
jasonc said:
when a primate says no.and decides to write poetry and form his own culture free from,enslavement by man ,only,then will you,have a case .

think planet of the apes .you are arguing that we aren't the only,special creation with free moral agency .

apes do have high intelligence they can use some of our language but never are they equal
Click to expand...
Great points.
Man was made in the image of God.
We love
We create
We socialize
We reason
We have a conscience
and more.....

animals have some of the above...but not all as we do.
 
Edward said:
They wont attack you. Scripture says the lions will lay down with the lambs and they'll eat grass like an ox.

And I think you have misunderstood just a wee bit. I'm not asserting that animals get born again or need redemption because they don't. They are not on the level of man. It's just that, they have to live in a fallen world so life is tough for them too. Wild animals have to go scrounge for food and watch out that they don't get eaten themselves while out foraging. Even domesticated animals have it hard. They may get food put in front of them but the stupid abuses they must suffer! Even the nice folks who...order them around, SIT 500 times, make them pose or wear dumb costumes, or the kids come jump on them and drag them around, stuff like that. My giant 190 pound English Mastiff would always keep his cool. He would let the little kids hassle him for awhile but when he got tired of it, he would just stand up real slow and walk away. That dog was so patient with kids!!!
Click to expand...
Ed,
I can't take this subject too seriously.
Honestly, how can we know for sure?
Sometimes I think that if we need our pet to be happy
in heaven, maybe our pet (s) will really be there.

If a non born-again person cannot get into heaven because their spirit is not in tune
with God's...then how would an animal get into heaven.

This scripture you post...is it literal?
Think of Revelation.
 
Dog lover here ...supporting anything positive or beyond the belief of cynics in regard to dogs.
Dogs rule!
 
Link1983 said:
Well God just told u the answer! God's creation is God's creation. Dogs know God, Cats know God, Even a rock knows God. It's creator.
It's common sense to me..
Click to expand...
LOL
God didn't just tell me the answer.
Theology told me the answer.
As I said, I can't really take this thread too seriously.
Animals have a body and a soul.
They do not have a spirit.
They're not aware of God.
They're not made in God's image.
I don't believe they're going to heaven....
I say "believe" because I don't think we can be
absolutely certain.
 
jasonc said:
animals have no free will,no,ability to ponder why they exist,no regret over killing their young ,dogs will eat their own ,a pig the same.

the lion doesn't worry over the morality of vegan vs carnivores.he just eats.
Click to expand...
Jason,
Allow me to help you out with the free will statement.

When we speak of FREE WILL in theology, we mean the ability to choose between two MORAL choices.

So in this respect, and in this thread, you're right.
Animals do NOT have free will because they know nothing of morals.

They do, however, have psychological or philosophical free will.
This is the ability to decide between two choices.
A cat may choose to eat chicken or beef.
This is as far as their free will goes.

Animals do not have MORAL FREE WILL, which is biblical free will.
 
wondering said:
Ed,
I can't take this subject too seriously.
Honestly, how can we know for sure?
Sometimes I think that if we need our pet to be happy
in heaven, maybe our pet (s) will really be there.

If a non born-again person cannot get into heaven because their spirit is not in tune
with God's...then how would an animal get into heaven.

This scripture you post...is it literal?
Think of Revelation.
Click to expand...
How can I be sure
In a world that's constantly changing
How can I be sure
Where I stand with you......
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
How can I be sure
In a world that's constantly changing
How can I be sure
Where I stand with you......
Click to expand...
You're so musically inclined.
It's not a matter of WHERE I STAND WITH YOU.
I know where I stand with God.
There are some things we cannot be absolutely sure of.
That's all I'm saying.
 
wondering said:
You're so musically inclined.
It's not a matter of WHERE I STAND WITH YOU.
I know where I stand with God.
There are some things we cannot be absolutely sure of.
That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
Have you been listening to my fun songs thread?
 
wondering said:
LOL
God didn't just tell me the answer.
Theology told me the answer.
As I said, I can't really take this thread too seriously.
Animals have a body and a soul.
They do not have a spirit.
They're not aware of God.
They're not made in God's image.
I don't believe they're going to heaven....
I say "believe" because I don't think we can be
absolutely certain.
Click to expand...
 
wondering said:
LOL
God didn't just tell me the answer.
Theology told me the answer.
As I said, I can't really take this thread too seriously.
Animals have a body and a soul.
They do not have a spirit.
They're not aware of God.
They're not made in God's image.
I don't believe they're going to heaven....
I say "believe" because I don't think we can be
absolutely certain.
Click to expand...

Not spirit like us no. I agree with that. But The Bible clearly says that both humans and animals can go to Heaven.
Posted scripture on it earlier here. :)
I think that is just good news, up to you how serious it is. People are much more important than animals.
But it doesn't mean God doesn't care about them.
Stay blessed!
 
Are higher life forms more able to know of God? Like for instance...Do animals have a greater potential to know God than say...plants?

Can a plant violate the commandments of God? Maybe. Can a plant talk? Scripture says yes! Looky here.

Mark 11:12-14

12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:

13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.

14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.../

It's my understanding that fig trees start getting leaves, then the figs come. So when Jesus saw it was full of leaves, He expected for it to have figs so He went over to it to get a snack.
(God created Fig trees to make figs in a certain cycle. This fig tree did not.) Was this in violation of God's commandment to it? Is this why it angered Jesus to the point that He cursed it?!

It says He answered it...spoke to it. So you can't answer someone without being spoken to first. So did the fig tree speak? I think it did.

Put that one in your pipe, lol. :wink
 
Animals do not make choices that affect their relationships in a very natural sense. They do superficially and have characteristics like humans. I believe they have spirits but not souls, if they had souls the bible would preach about animals being saved. Something activates their lifestyle. I believe if they had souls they would be able to get saved as we do. We are animals (Mammals) in research of certain professionals. To say we came from monkeys or other animals is too far fetched. Its unproven, finding one big head in a garden one day does not prove we evolved it could be just someone that had a big head. Think about the bible. Solomon is way back in the old testament, but look at how wise he was. The Jesus that taught is new in bible, but that was over 2000 years ago now.
 
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