[_ Old Earth _] Missing links...

[Adam]

Then ask yourself the question - is this the result of evolution, or divine creation of the separate species and their separate capacities?

There can be only one answer.

That's a false dichotomy. There are at least four possible answers in this matrix.

You've forgotten "both" and "neither."

"Neither" opens the door for a fifth answer and unlimited answers beyond that.

Then, of course, there is the obvious answer.... both.

 

[cupid dave]

No, it cannot.

That is what you subjectively said about the paleontlogists who wrote the most recent peer reviewed book, stating that, (as Genesis also reports), 22 now extinct species of humans preceded modern man and his flood Out-of-Africa.

Book:

The Last Human: A Guide to Twenty-Two Species of Extinct Humans
by G.J.Sawyer, (Author)

You said the same thing when I told you the Buckminster Fuller identified the 5-piece Cube in his book, "Cosmography, the one thing thatexplains everything."
He indendently developd his mathe,maticl theory which is the same as I discovered was the Urim and Thummim secreted subtly in the geometry of the Bible.

And now you deny the experts who wrote this book, telling us all that:


"The Geological Time Scale can also be used to define the major stages in the History of life on Earth.
Often each era ends with a major extinction which eliminates the dominant life forms of the time, and paves the way for new comers."
page 28

 

[cupid dave]

That's a false dichotomy. There are at least four possible answers in this matrix.

You've forgotten "both" and "neither."

"Neither" opens the door for a fifth answer and unlimited answers beyond that.

Then, of course, there is the obvious answer.... both.

Yeah.
Both is the answer of the Theistic Evolution Bible believer who sees evolution as the "tool" god used to create the species.

 

[Knotical]

Except "evolution" is just a human theory. It was never used by God, because it doesn't "exist".

Just because a bunch of humans agree on something doesn't mean it is true. So, your "peer reviewed" book is nothing but a book that a bunch of people "believe is true".

Yes, I see the problem with my argument, that the same thing can be said about the bible, but the distinction is that the Bible is God inspired, or breathed. Books on evolution are made up theories put together by a bunch of imperfect beings trying to find a "reason" for something that already has an answer, yet they refuse to accept.

 

[Barbarian]

Books on evolution are made up theories put together by a bunch of imperfect beings trying to find a "reason" for something that already has an answer, yet they refuse to accept.

Why would it offend you that the theory and the reason happen to be the same thing? Is God not God if He uses nature for His purposes?

 

[Grazer]

Why would it offend you that the theory and the reason happen to be the same thing? Is God not God if He uses nature for His purposes?

Brilliant point, God can use anything for his purpose

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[cupid dave]

Except "evolution" is just a human theory. It was never used by God, because it doesn't "exist".

Just because a bunch of humans agree on something doesn't mean it is true. So, your "peer reviewed" book is nothing but a book that a bunch of people "believe is true".

Yes, I see the problem with my argument, that the same thing can be said about the bible, but the distinction is that the Bible is God inspired, or breathed. Books on evolution are made up theories put together by a bunch of imperfect beings trying to find a "reason" for something that already has an answer, yet they refuse to accept.

You have really thought this out.

You are dead wrong to say, "the same thing can be said about the bible."

Everyone MUSt agree that the Bible is correct and never wrong.

The discussion here is between you and church people who say your understanding is correct and Theistic Evolution understanding is wrong.

We could both be wrong.

You could be wrong.
Or, Theuistic Evolution could be wrong.

Both Theistic Evolution and all the old medieval rooted ideas about what the Bible actually is telling us could be wrong.

But the Bible is not wrong.
I have faith in that through Christ, who said the Truth is immortal, and will rise again and again, in spite of men and their attempt to supress it.

 

[cupid dave]

Why would it offend you that the theory and the reason happen to be the same thing? Is God not God if He uses nature for His purposes?

More to the point:


If Christ is Truth, (John 14:6), isn't his "father" the force behind the ever unfolding Reality which sires that Truth in its wake?????

 

[Knotical]

Evolution is an assumption that everything happens randomly, and spontaneously. That is now how God operates, nor is that how He DESIGNED everything. Everything reacts, changes, and adapts as they are "designed" to. Evolution is the complete opposite of this.

 

[Adam]

That is what you subjectively said about the paleontlogists who wrote the most recent peer reviewed book, stating that, (as Genesis also reports), 22 now extinct species of humans preceded modern man and his flood Out-of-Africa.




You said the same thing when I told you the Buckminster Fuller identified the 5-piece Cube in his book, "Cosmography, the one thing thatexplains everything."
He indendently developd his mathe,maticl theory which is the same as I discovered was the Urim and Thummim secreted subtly in the geometry of the Bible.



And now you deny the experts who wrote this book, telling us all that:


"The Geological Time Scale can also be used to define the major stages in the History of life on Earth.
Often each era ends with a major extinction which eliminates the dominant life forms of the time, and paves the way for new comers."
page 28

I didn't "subjectively" say anything.


Facts are facts and are not subjective.

I proved beyond any doubt that there are more than 22 discovered hominin species because those are the facts.

As far as yout Urim Thummim claim, you never provided a single fact that demonstrated your cube claim.


And I have not denied anything any "experts" have said on this matter. This is the first time you have mentioned this book. How can I reject or accept something that was never presented to me?

However, now that you mention it in the very out of context way that you do, V.P. SINGH is a botonist, not a geologist. He isn't as worthy of a source as the ICS is, but if you want to go with him, fine.

Here is what he says on the divisions of the time scales in the very same book:


"The entire interval of the existence of visible life is called the Phanerozoic eon. The great Precambrian expanse of time is divided into the Proterozoic, Archeon, and Hadeon eons in order of increasing age.

The names of the eras in the Phanerozoic eon (the eon of visible life) are the Cenozoic ("recent life"), Mesozoic ("middle life") and Paleozoic ("ancient life")."

V.P Singh, Gymnosperm (Naked Seed Plants), pp 31-32



So, as it turns out, it is you who denies what the "experts" say, even when it is you who provided the evidence that disproves your claims.


There are 4 eons and the Mesozoic, Cenozoic and Paleozoic divisions are eras of one of those eons, according to V.P. Singh.

 

[Adam]

Evolution is an assumption that everything happens randomly, and spontaneously.

No, that is not the case, sir.

Evolution does not set to explain "everything." It explains variation in life forms, which do not happen spontaneously. Evolution is change over time, not "all of the sudden."

Nor is is random. Changes take place because of environmental pressure and other factors.

 

[Grazer]

Evolution is an assumption that everything happens randomly, and spontaneously. That is now how God operates, nor is that how He DESIGNED everything. Everything reacts, changes, and adapts as they are "designed" to. Evolution is the complete opposite of this.

That's how the likes of Richard Dawkins see it but it isn't necessarily how it is. Evolution is a mechanism. Any statements that say whether that mechanismis directed or undirected are statements of the individual. Francis Collins certainly doesn't see it as undirected

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Barbarian]

What Adam said.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Evolution is an assumption that everything happens randomly, and spontaneously.

No its not. Theory of evolution is that due to selective pressures, organism's lineages adapt and change to their environments or go extinct. That isn't random because the process of procreation and survival aren't random.

 

[cupid dave]

Evolution is an assumption that everything happens randomly, and spontaneously.
That is now how God operates, nor is that how He DESIGNED everything.
Everything reacts, changes, and adapts as they are "designed" to. Evolution is the complete opposite of this.

I think you sum up Evolution poorly.

Evolution is a theory which actually says that the God of the Living requires all organisms to bow down to "Him" or become extinct.

That is the definition of an almighty God, de facto.

The bible is merely teaching us to bow down and adapt to his ways or else.
Before its too late.

 

[cupid dave]

No its not. Theory of evolution is that due to selective pressures, organism's lineages adapt and change to their environments or go extinct. That isn't random because the process of procreation and survival aren't random.

Actually, all life must bow down before the endlessly changing environment caused by the Natural force behind the ever unfolding Reality.


This is a challenge for most creatures who can not foresee these changes coming, but must react to them as the stimuli presents itself incrementally.
Man is saved because he can image this endlessly changing environment caused by the Natural force behind the ever unfolding Reality by modelling the concept of Truth inside his mind.

Man has the god give gift, the blessing by the grace of this God to see the truth if he will accept the facts of life and begin adapting to them asap.

 

[cupid dave]

I proved beyond any doubt that there are more than 22 discovered hominin species because those are the facts.

So, as it turns out, it is you who denies what the "experts" say, even when it is you who provided the evidence that disproves your claims.


There are 4 eons and the Mesozoic, Cenozoic and Paleozoic divisions are eras of one of those eons, according to V.P. Singh.

You merely oppose the evidence that I offered.

I said Genesis specifically says that 22 predecessors to the ascent of Modern man went extinct which science also states, based upon the most recent book published on that subject.

You deny that FACT, and suggest that the book is wrong because you coukd post a better list containg more that 22.
Please give us your list and credentials.


In regard to the biologist, V.P. Singh, I did NOT say that he was an authority on dating the Earth by using the six major layers of Rocks as the Geological Clock.
I corrected your erroneous criticism of my statement that Geology can be USED to date the history of the Earth.

I repeat what V.P. Singh said:

"The Geological Time Scale can also be used to define the major stages in the History of life on Earth.
Often each era ends with a major extinction which eliminates the dominant life forms of the time, and paves the way for new comers."


Biologists are using the rocks specifically in regard to dating the history of life, but the observation that only the Hadean Eon was absent evidence of life in its rocks essentially means that the history of life on earth is a history of the Earth itself.

 

[Adam]

You merely oppose the evidence that I offered.

I said Genesis specifically says that 22 predecessors to the ascent of Modern man went extinct which science also states, based upon the most recent book published on that subject.

You deny that FACT, and suggest that the book is wrong because you coukd post a better list containg more that 22.
Please give us your list and credentials.

Those aren't facts in either case.

And I already gave you a list. You ignored it.

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687563&viewfull=1#post687563

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687565&viewfull=1#post687565

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687567&viewfull=1#post687567

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687584&viewfull=1#post687584


Those wouldn't fit in a single post.


And I also gave you this:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=43110&p=665266&viewfull=1#post665266

In regard to the biologist, V.P. Singh, I did NOT say that he was an authority on dating the Earth by using the six major layers of Rocks as the Geological Clock.

Actually, you did when you said "And now you deny the experts who wrote this book" when the subject was specifically the Geological clock.

I corrected your erroneous criticism of my statement that Geology can be USED to date the history of the Earth.

I repeat what V.P. Singh said:

"The Geological Time Scale can also be used to define the major stages in the History of life on Earth.
Often each era ends with a major extinction which eliminates the dominant life forms of the time, and paves the way for new comers."


Biologists are using the rocks specifically in regard to dating the history of life, but the observation that only the Hadean Eon was absent evidence of life in its rocks essentially means that the history of life on earth is a history of the Earth itself.

Now you are just strawmanning. We aren't debating on how the dating is done. We are debating on whether or not the geological timescale recognized by the International Chronostratigraphic Society has major divisions of six eras, as you erroneosly claim to suit a numerological agenda, or whether the divisions are 4 eons, which even your own sources attest to.

 

[cupid dave]

Those aren't facts in either case.

And I already gave you a list. You ignored it.

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687563&viewfull=1#post687563

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687565&viewfull=1#post687565

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687567&viewfull=1#post687567

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=44836&p=687584&viewfull=1#post687584


Those wouldn't fit in a single post.


And I also gave you this:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=43110&p=665266&viewfull=1#post665266





Actually, you did when you said "And now you deny the experts who wrote this book" when the subject was specifically the Geological clock.





Now you are just strawmanning. We aren't debating on how the dating is done. We are debating on whether or not the geological timescale recognized by the International Chronostratigraphic Society has major divisions of six eras, as you erroneosly claim to suit a numerological agenda, or whether the divisions are 4 eons, which even your own sources attest to.

I am merely saying that the rocks mark off the six days which are mentioned in Genesis.

I posted the fact that this is possible, when we use geology to determine the age of the earth.

You, on the other hand, are insisting that we discuss the age of the rosks themselves, and compare how in such a task we we can gather eons, eras, periods, epochs into groups since the suffix actually designates the age of those kayers.


This is just off the track and your attempt to deny that the six major geological events parallel the description of those same events in Genesis.

 

[Adam]

There are not 6 major geological events, or, if there are, name them.

And don't go with your past answer because I've totally dismantled it.

(that's a geologist joke)


So give me the major EVENTS and we will compare them to what GENESIS says. Not your additions and private interpretations, but strictly the account as given in Genesis and everyone but you will see that your claim makes no sense.

I have to warn you, though. You aren't going to arrive at 6 major geological events.