Mistakes resulted in 238,337 preventable deaths :2004-2006

[Cornelius]

Medical Errors Costing U.S. Billions
Mistakes resulted in 238,337 preventable deaths from 2004-2006, survey finds

Robert Preidt

TUESDAY, April 8 (HealthDay News) -- From 2004 through 2006, patient safety errors resulted in 238,337 potentially preventable deaths of U.S. Medicare patients and cost the Medicare program $8.8 billion, according to the fifth annual Patient Safety in American Hospitals Study.

This analysis of 41 million Medicare patient records, released April 8 by HealthGrades, a health care ratings organization, found that patients treated at top-performing hospitals were, on average, 43 percent less likely to experience one or more medical errors than patients at the poorest-performing hospitals.

The overall medical error rate was about 3 percent for all Medicare patients, which works out to about 1.1 million patient safety incidents during the three years included in the analysis...

 

[Cornelius]

Prayer or doctor?

Which way must you go?

 

[GojuBrian]

Prayer or doctor?

Which way must you go?

It's obviously not an either/or choice. :eyebrow

 

[Cornelius]

Prayer or doctor?

Which way must you go?

It's obviously not an either/or choice. :eyebrow

If you only had one choice, which would it be?

C

 

[GojuBrian]

Prayer or doctor?

Which way must you go?

It's obviously not an either/or choice. :eyebrow

If you only had one choice, which would it be?

C

It's a nonsensical question. Obviously I trust God. Do you think God wants everyone not to go to doctors? I think God has given us the gift of doctors.

Your statistics only present your side of it. How many people overall who are treated die from neglect by doctors? Want to take your chances?

Ever heard, "God gave you the cure and you threw it in the trash!"

 

[Works4Him]

Cornelius,

You seem to be implying that because of all these deaths, doctors should not be trusted. Of course, I don't know this for sure, since you're not just coming out and saying what you're getting at. That's actually a pet peeve of mine - people trying to imply a point without actually sharing their point. But I digress, this is about addressing the notion that doctors are unsafe.

First off, while the number sounds huge, you've got to put it in perspective. Of the people involved in the study, a whopping 0.58% of them died. That's about one half of one percent over all. Comparatively speaking, according to the Independent Insurance Agents of America, all the way back in 1998 when there were only 75% of the drivers on the road that there were today, auto accidents involving an injury took place over 2,254,066 times in a year(1). That means far more people are injured in auto accidents every year than die in hospitals through what the source calls "mistakes". In addition to the 2.5 million accidents with injury every year, another roughly 40,000-45,000 people die as a result of accidents every year(2). In the 3 years of the study, that adds up to about 130,000-ish deaths, making cars nearly as fatal as hospitals, at least according to your source.

Next, we need to look at your numbers, and see how they came to this conclusion. You didn't provide a source for your data, but I went ahead and dug up the actual source for those interested (3). On page 23 of the report, they break down what the situations that led to these deaths involved. The really big, glaringly obvious thing I see is that over 188,000 of these deaths are due to "failure to rescue". For those who might not spend a lot of time in medical circles, failure to rescue has nothing to do with a doctor making a mistake during the actual procedure the person was in the hospital for. Failure to rescue is when a person is in the hospital (typically recovering) and they crash. Quite often, the crash isn't directly related to the procedure itself, but can be heart attacks, strokes, etc... In other words, these aren't deaths caused by doctors, they're just people who happened to be in the hospital, suffered, and doctors weren't able to rescue them from their crash. Because of this, you can't really hold doctors accountable for this, and if you look at the bottom of the page, you'll see that the folks conducting the study didn't include these deaths in the rest of their analysis. When you take that 188,000+ people out of the math, you're left with 50,008 people who died as a result of hospital-related incidents, over the course of a three year study. That works out to 16670 deaths a year, or in other words, about 39 % the number of deaths per the same amount of time due to auto accidents!

The facts are laid out plainly. You're about 3 times more likely to die in an auto accident this year than at the hands of a surgeon in a hospital. If you can't trust doctors, then there's no way you can trust any form of automobile. They're variable deathtraps in comparison.

Sources-
1-IIAA Information, 1998
2-Fatal Accident Reporting System Encyclopedia - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
3-Patient Safety In American Hospitals Study - 2008 (PDF file)

 

[Works4Him]

Having said all of this, the question as to which to trust is in error. You Can't compartmentalize Christ, making him one of your choices. If you did, you'd have to decide between Christ and eating, Christ and breathing, Christ and posting on forums. We do EVERYTHING through Christ, including eating, posting on forums, and going to doctors. As such, we can trust Christ and a doctor at the same time. That's just how it works.

I'd also like to point out that the study had nothing to do with family practice doctors, clinics, etc. It only deals with hospital-related cases.

 

[Cornelius]

I asked because no big deal is made over the 2383377 people that died, but one Christian couple is being charged with murder, because they prayed for their daughter and she died.

Should we not also be looking at 238337 other murder cases ? Or must only Christians suffer while even their own keep silent.

http://www.helptheneumanns.com/#Trial
C

 

[Cornelius]

Wisconsin law that permits prayer alone as a treatment for sickness.

Section 948.04 - (6) TREATMENT THROUGH PRAYER. A person is not guilty of an offense under this section solely because he or she provides a child with treatment by spiritual means through prayer alone for healing in accordance with the religious method of healing permitted under s. 48.981 (3) (c) 4. or 448.03 (6) in lieu of medical or surgical treatment. 448.04 - (6) PRACTICE OF CHRISTIAN SCIENCE. No law of this state regulating the practice of medicine and surgery may be construed to interfere with the practice of Christian Science. A person who elects Christian Science treatment in lieu of medical or surgical treatment for the cure of disease may not be compelled to submit to medical or surgical treatment. Can’t anybody read? Now even if you disagree with these laws, you still cannot prosecute someone while they are in effect. It is as the Bible warned against in its law, which WAS the foundation for our law: {Dt.12:8} Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.

Even though this law was created to protect Christian Scientists, its still the law in Wisconsin and yet your courts are willfully ignoring this law and most Christians are keeping silent about this.

WHY?

C

 

[Gabe]

Then the law should be changed.

 

[Cornelius]

Then the law should be changed.

Thank you, but it has not been changed and Christians are being persecuted in the US because they are Christians. Its legal to pray for the sick in Wisconsin .

 

[Gabe]

Okay. Answering your original question; I agree that those other cases should be looked into (if they haven't already) but if I had a family and I came back from being away on work to find that my daughter had died because my wife prayed for her sickness to be removed rather than pray for her and take her to a doctor; I would be the first person calling for her to be locked up for negligence. Maybe this is why Christians are keeping silent?

 

[Works4Him]

Cornelius,

Why didn't you just state your point up front then? Why all the cloak and dagger nonsense?

Also, this news story you're mentioning actually strengthens my convictions. Madeline Kara Neumann died because she had Juvenile Diabetes, and her parents refused to take her to a doctor or get her medical treatment. Diabetes is the MOST treatable condition you can get - if these parents had gone to a doctor, their daughter would still be alive today. I don't know how these parents don't only plead guilty and throw themselves on the mercy of the court, but I'm outraged that they have the tenacity to claim they were innocent of any wrongdoing.

Doctors aren't a bad thing at all. God gives these people the brains to help the rest of us. And remember Luke, the guy who wrote third gospel along with Acts? He was a doctor! So apparently, God trusts doctors to write scripture, essentially speaking for Him. To me, saying doctors can't be trusted is a bit akin to saying you're better than God. I mean, he trusts doctors, so why can't you?

This news story reminds me of a story I heard once. A man was trapped on his roof in a flood. Waters were rising, and he was doomed to die if he didn't get rescued soon. So he prays to God, asking him to rescue him. A boat comes along, and the man in the boat calls out for this man to climb off the roof. "No!" the man yells, "I'm waiting for God to save me!". A short time later the water is covering most of the mans' roof, as a helicopter flies over and drops a rescue line. Again, the man shoes them off, saying he's waiting on God to save him. Sure enough, the man winds up drowning, and finds himself standing at the entrance to heaven. He stomps his feet asking "God, why didn't you save me?!". To which, God replies "Hey, I sent you a boat AND a helicopter. You're the guy who wouldn't use them."

God wants to help us, and sometimes he uses doctors to do that. These parents, for not recognizing that, are guilty of reckless manslaughter at best, and at worst they're murderers. You CAN trust God and at the same time go to your doctor.

In closing, your argument is totally invalid. There's no comparison here.

 

[Cornelius]

Okay. Answering your original question; I agree that those other cases should be looked into (if they haven't already) but if I had a family and I came back from being away on work to find that my daughter had died because my wife prayed for her sickness to be removed rather than pray for her and take her to a doctor; I would be the first person calling for her to be locked up for negligence. Maybe this is why Christians are keeping silent?

Maybe you should read the website and see what it happening? Its a kangaroo court and its illegal. The judge is committing a crime in full view of everybody and people are not saying a word. The Newmanns are denied their rights.

I am making you aware of this now, because this is the start of it. Just like being PC is now leading to situations where the rats are going to start demanding "rights" as well, this will lead to the law taking your freedom away too. Seeing that gays are now getting the star treatment, will mean that any person with a private something can (and will) come out and say: They got , now I want it too (and they will be really within their rights to do that.)

Now watch when the state decides who can pray and who cannot pray in future. Do you think they will allow us to NOT go to a doctor, if we should see that as part of our walk of faith with the Lord. I am not saying it must be the walk of ALL Christians, but do you think it is OK for any government to choose for you when and how you must have faith.

I certainly do not agree and will not be told by any law , how to have faith.

C

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius,

Why didn't you just state your point up front then? Why all the cloak and dagger nonsense?

Because when I did put it out up front, it got ignored

 

[Works4Him]

And as far as saying why aren't the deaths at hospital looked in to, they are. But the doctors, they're actively trying everything in their ability to save these people. The parents you mention, they weren't trying everything. If they were, they would have went to a doctor, and if that didn't work, try an alternate medicine, and if that didn't work, try something else. They said a few prayers, and totally ignored piles of other options. As a parent, you aught to do everything in your power to save your child. Prayer is good, and very important, but sometimes God wants us to take action, instead of sitting on our butts begging for God to do every little task for us that we're capable of doing ourselves.

This court case isn't a case of people being persecuted for being Christian. It's a case of people being persecuted for being stupid, awful, neglecting parents, and if they were any religion, be it Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or Atheist, these people would still be in court.

Like the boy who cried wold, if we cry persecution too often, when it really happens nobody will listen.

 

[Cornelius]

They said a few prayers, and totally ignored piles of other options.

Interesting views for a Christian.
Remind me never to ask you for a "few prayers"............

 

[Gabe]

Maybe you should read the website and see what it happening? Its a kangaroo court and its illegal. The judge is committing a crime in full view of everybody and people are not saying a word. The Newmanns are denied their rights.

That child died due to the inaction of her parents. They as good as murdered that child.

Now watch when the state decides who can pray and who cannot pray in future. Do you think they will allow us to NOT go to a doctor, if we should see that as part of our walk of faith with the Lord. I am not saying it must be the walk of ALL Christians, but do you think it is OK for any government to choose for you when and how you must have faith.

As an adult, it should be your choice; but when it comes to the life of a child, they should have the right to force the parents to seek medical treatment for their children.

...This court case isn't a case of people being persecuted for being Christian. It's a case of people being persecuted for being stupid, awful, neglecting parents, and if they were any religion, be it Christian or Muslim or Buddhist or Atheist, these people would still be in court...

Amen.

 

[Cornelius]

It's a case of people being persecuted for being stupid,

Amen.

Again, very interesting ........

 

[Gabe]

It's a case of people being persecuted for being stupid,

Amen.

Again, very interesting ........

No, what's interesting is the editing you have done to the quote.