model prayer /Lord prayer

[for_his_glory]

I answered your question and now you pass on answering mine? This is pretty typical of most people on these forums. You have your pet doctrine and when its challenged you bail. The question I asked is fundamental to everyone’s salvation. I find it interesting that someone who claims to love God wont go down this list and tell me through the scriptures which ones I can omit and still be pleasing to God.
Hear? Paul says you cant believe without hearing. Rom 10:14,15.
Belief? Jn 8:24, Mk 16:16
Confession? Mat 10:32, Rom 10:9,10
Repentance? Try acts 17:30, acts 2:38
Baptism? Try mk 16:16, acts 2:38. Acts 22:16, 1 pet 3:21. Rom 6:3,4
Faithfulness. Rev 2:10. 2 Tim 4:7. Paul said….I kept the faith!
Seems to me that all these are critical components to mans salvation. But i guess it dont matter to you becasue all I guess you have to do is just accept jesus and say some prayer. Where are those scriptures and examples?

Nope, I never bail and again, I have addressed each one of those questions and do not feel the need or take the time to go over them again. Please go back and read my post.

 

[Cnkw3]

Nope, I never bail and again, I have addressed each one of those questions and do not feel the need or take the time to go over them again. Please go back and read my post.

Please show me which post it is that you dealt with this? Maybe i missed it .

 

[gordon777]

I answered your question and now you pass on answering mine? This is pretty typical of most people on these forums. You have your pet doctrine and when its challenged you bail. The question I asked is fundamental to everyone’s salvation. I find it interesting that someone who claims to love God wont go down this list and tell me through the scriptures which ones I can omit and still be pleasing to God.
Hear? Paul says you cant believe without hearing. Rom 10:14,15.
Belief? Jn 8:24, Mk 16:16
Confession? Mat 10:32, Rom 10:9,10
Repentance? Try acts 17:30, acts 2:38
Baptism? Try mk 16:16, acts 2:38. Acts 22:16, 1 pet 3:21. Rom 6:3,4
Faithfulness. Rev 2:10. 2 Tim 4:7. Paul said….I kept the faith!
Seems to me that all these are critical components to mans salvation. But i guess it dont matter to you becasue all I guess you have to do is just accept jesus and say some prayer. Where are those scriptures and examples?

Saved is from sin ( from wickedness and selfishness) if we are not selfish we heard that messaqe to go and give all our life away..


Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

 

[Cnkw3]

Saved is from sin ( from wickedness and selfishness) if we are not selfish we heard that messaqe to go and give all our life away..


Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

How does one get “into Christ”?

 

[for_his_glory]

Thats not what you said. You said that the humble can approach the throne and thats not just anybody. But now if you are saying that just anybody can approach and pray; do you have any verse that supports that position?

Let's start here as you twisted what I said.

I said anybody with a humbled heart can approach the throne of grace. If someone is not humbled by what Christ did for us on the cross then no matter how many times they pray God will not hear them.


There are five requirements to Salvation that all include humbling ourselves as we come before the throne of God in prayer.


1. Confession - Acts 2:21; Romans 10:9, 10


2. Repentance - Mark 1:14, 15


3. Faith - John 3:14-18

4. Regeneration - John 3:3-8 (Baptism of Christ for receiving the Holy Spirit. Has nothing to do with literal water, but that is another topic I will not discuss here.)


5. Holy Scripture - 2 Timothy 3:15

The OP is about the Lord's prayer as I see it as a pattern to follow.

 

[for_his_glory]

Didnt you say…accept jesus and pray? Thats not from God

do you have to hear the gospel? Yes or know?
Do you have to believe in Jesus and that he was raised from the dead? Yes or no?
Do you have to confess Christ? Yes or no?
do you have to repent? Yes or no?
Do you have to be baptized to have yours sins removed? Yes or no?
Do you have to live a faithful life? Yes or no?
Now please show me which one I can leave out and still be pleasing to God. When we look at all the examples of conversion in the book of acts will we see these people….hearing, believing, confessing, repenting and being baptized? Acts 2, acts 8, acts 10, acts 16, acts 18, acts 19, acts 22
Now if you believe in praying for salvation then show me all those examples.

yes
yes
yes
yes
no
yes

Being baptized in water does not remove sin, but only through repenting asking Jesus to forgive our sin is when our past sins will be forgiven. (I will not make this about Baptism as that is another thread)

 

[for_his_glory]

We, including myself, are straying away from the OP which is about the Lord's Prayer. We are getting off topic talking about what it takes to be saved. Please let's keep this thread on topic. Anything else will be deleted as being off topic.

Thank you.

 

[Cnkw3]

yes
yes
yes
yes
no
yes

Being baptized in water does not remove sin, but only through repenting asking Jesus to forgive our sin is when our past sins will be forgiven. (I will not make this about Baptism as that is another thread)

This thread is about prayer and my position is that…not just anybody can approach the throne of God in prayer. You think otherwise. My position requires that a person becomes a child of God and then and only then can you say…my father which art in heaven. And the only way to be a child of God by faith is through baptism. Gal 3:26-29. This is how all of this ties together. One cannot pray and expect to be heard if one has not first obeyed the gospel. 1 Pet 3:12. Isa 59;1,2 That is truly a “humble heart”. The heart that says…God I want to do what you have asked me to do and not what some random preacher like Billy Graham has repeated for 50 years.

 

[for_his_glory]

As we come before the throne of God in prayer? How does this tie in?

Are these in order? confession first? Wouldn’t scripture or the word come first? Just wondering.

4. Regeneration? Doesn’t this mean new life? At what point does a person “rise to walk in newness of life”?
Rom 6:3,4. When one comes up out of the water of baptism. We know its water because of the description. Burial, planting, a raising.
At what point is a person quickened? Or made alive (Born again) Col 2:11-13. in the waters of baptism.
Why is this? Its because in the waters of baptism one is
saved. Mk 16;16. 1 pet 3:21
sins are remitted. acts 2:38
sins are washed away. Acts 22:16.
Its at this point that a person is truly regenerated. Born again.

I know you have probably followed the same Baptism has nothing to do with salvation doctrine for years and are now so invested that there is no turning back. I get it. Thats where most people are. The Bible speaks of getting oneself in a condition where there is “no place for repentance”. Meaning….its effectively too late.

If we are not hearing the word of God first then none of those five requirements would not be known to us and we could not humble ourselves in prayer before the Lord. All five are in order, but yet all are involved in prayer as being types of prayer that ties into one single prayer.

Like I said, I will not derail this thread and talk about baptism.

 

[for_his_glory]

This thread is about prayer and my position is that…not just anybody can approach the throne of God in prayer. You think otherwise. My position requires that a person becomes a child of God and then and only then can you say…my father which art in heaven. And the only way to be a child of God by faith is through baptism. Gal 3:26-29. This is how all of this ties together. One cannot pray and expect to be heard if one has not first obeyed the gospel. 1 Pet 3:12. Isa 59;1,2 That is truly a “humble heart”. The heart that says…God I want to do what you have asked me to do and not what some random preacher like Billy Graham has repeated for 50 years.

Quick making this about following Billy Graham or any other Pastor and about baptism in water as I will not discuss this.

I never said just anybody can approach the throne of God's grace. Quit twisting my words.

 

[Cnkw3]

If we are not hearing the word of God first then none of those five requirements would not be known to us and we could not humble ourselves in prayer before the Lord. All five are in order, but yet all are involved in prayer as being types of prayer that ties into one single prayer.

Like I said, I will not derail this thread and talk about baptism.

We are talking about prayer now. How does confession, repentance, and regeneration have any thing to do with prayer? Confession is made with the mouth before men. Its not a prayer. Repentance is a change of mind about whose will you now wish to follow. Regeneration is the process of being born again which I have showed through numerous verses that this can only take place coming up out of the waters of baptism. Why? Because that is where sins are remitted and washed away. One cant be ”regenerated” and still be in their sins. You can argue with that all you want but you are arguing with God because he said it. Not me. So as I study these points there is no prayer any where in there unless of course you just throw it in there because you like the idea.
There is no humility in a person arguing with God about what he has said removes sin and making up your own doctrine thats not in Gods word. Thats Me,me, me. And there’s no humility in that.

 

[for_his_glory]

We are talking about prayer now. How does confession, repentance, and regeneration have any thing to do with prayer? Confession is made with the mouth before men. Its not a prayer. Repentance is a change of mind about whose will you now wish to follow. Regeneration is the process of being born again which I have showed through numerous verses that this can only take place coming up out of the waters of baptism. Why? Because that is where sins are remitted and washed away. One cant be ”regenerated” and still be in their sins. You can argue with that all you want but you are arguing with God because he said it. Not me. So as I study these points there is no prayer any where in there unless of course you just throw it in there because you like the idea.
There is no humility in a person arguing with God about what he has said removes sin and making up your own doctrine thats not in Gods word. Thats Me,me, me. And there’s no humility in that.

Maybe you need to give me your understanding of what prayer is and we can go from there.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus has forgiven our sins by dying on the cross, He has done it already, we cant ask Him to do it again, but we believe He died and rose again for our sins, and He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, which we confess through believing we need Christ our Lord as our Saviour. Jesus gave us the knowledge of salvation by the remission of our sins( showing in the Gospel He had to die for our sins so we do not die in them)




Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Thank you for your input, but none of this has anything to do with the OP. I am not discussing salvation, but only that of the Lord's Prayer.

 

[for_his_glory]

Cnkw3 and gordon777 if you want to discuss salvation then please start another thread and quit derailing this on. As you can see I deleted your postings as being off topic.

 

[gordon777]

Cnkw3 and gordon777 if you want to discuss salvation then please start another thread and quit derailing this on. As you can see I deleted your postings as being off topic.

If what I wrote for you elsewhere, is not deleted, cant be answered, cant be ignored, then what was deleted also could not be answered or ignored.

Do you not know that the Lords prayer for us is to be sent the comforter, ( the Holy Ghost John 14:16) as that is the Lords Kingdom come, ( Luke 17:21) that is the Lords will done on earth, as it is in Heaven, ( Galatians 1:4.) that is God giving us this day( when we believe this prayer) our daily bread ( Christ our daily bread sacrificed for us. John 6:48.) and is our High Priest securing us from temptation, as He endured temptation for that purpose, ( Hebrews 2:18.) who forgave us our debts, (Romans 8:12-13. 1 Corinthians 6:20.) and now we no longer are in debt( those in the law are debtors, ( Galatians 5:3) so that we also can forgive those indebted to us. ( through the mercy of Christ within us to fulfil the law of Christ. Galatians 6:2.)

 

[for_his_glory]

If what I wrote for you elsewhere, is not deleted, cant be answered, cant be ignored, then what was deleted also could not be answered or ignored.

Like I have said, this thread is not about salvation or baptism it is about prayer, directly, the Lord's Prayer being the topic of the OP. If others want to discuss salvation and baptism then they can start their own threads and not derail this one.

 

[gordon777]

Like I have said, this thread is not about salvation or baptism it is about prayer, directly, the Lord's Prayer being the topic of the OP. If others want to discuss salvation and baptism then they can start their own threads and not derail this one.

Yes you are interested in what you said ( like what I said) so much for hearing others, but God only hears those who hears others. ( also prayer is for salvation, as talk about salvation and prayers is the same thing.



Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

 

[Cnkw3]

Maybe you need to give me your understanding of what prayer is and we can go from there.

Talking to God…..
When Jesus went off by himself to pray….what did he do? He talked to God. There is your Biblical definition of prayer. When Hezekiah laid on his death bed and prayed….what did he do? He talked to God. Matt 6:9f is a beautiful definition of prayer. In Matt 26:39 what was Jesus doing on his knees….talking to God.
An alien sinner who is not even apart of the family of God doesn’t get to talk to him and call him “father”.
Why?…..Isa 59:1,2. Your sins have separated you from God “that he will not hear”.
1 pet 3:12. Jn 9:31

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes you are interested in what you said ( like what I said) so much for hearing others, but God only hears those who hears others. ( also prayer is for salvation, as talk about salvation and prayers is the same thing.



Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

John 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Philippians 1:19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Please go back and read the OP and give your answer to the posters question as this is all this thread needs to be about. Anymore derailing will cause your replies to be deleted as being of topic.

 

[for_his_glory]

Talking to God…..
When Jesus went off by himself to pray….what did he do? He talked to God. There is your Biblical definition of prayer. When Hezekiah laid on his death bed and prayed….what did he do? He talked to God. Matt 6:9f is a beautiful definition of prayer. In Matt 26:39 what was Jesus doing on his knees….talking to God.
An alien sinner who is not even apart of the family of God doesn’t get to talk to him and call him “father”.
Why?…..Isa 59:1,2. Your sins have separated you from God “that he will not hear”.
1 pet 3:12. Jn 9:31

I agree with all of this as I said prayer is simply talking to God, but first what did you have to do before you came to the throne of grace, you had to confess you are a sinner and then pray/talk to God as you humble your heart before Him as you repent and ask forgiveness asking Him to be your Lord and Savior. This is the beginning of salvation that has come to you through Christ Jesus.