modern christian view of sexuality not realistic

[addonai]

In Israel, by customs, they married even in 12-13 age. And stronger sexual exploration and urges starts at 15-16.
There's reason for that. Because they're actually growing in understanding all things.
And if you limit them of knowledge of sex and violence, they won't ever develop strong enough to deal with reality.

Thus puritanism view which greatly influenced all modern christianity, is twisted as well. Because it completely restricts all information and are just taught to flee. Like avoidance will solve issues.

It's impossible to be adult, and never experienced sexual feelings. If you hadn't experienced it at least through mastrubation, then you can't properly grow in adult with adult and mature thinking. And thus impossible standards parents hold to their children is just projection of parents incapability to be adults. To teach them rightly.

Anyways, we're taught by internet anyways. But do you really need to cut off all internet in order to avoid something.
But you already know what that something is. You have twisted, demonized and vague idea of what it is.


Puritans mixed lust and attraction as same thing. And that led to wreckage of faith and leads to unbelief.

So, parents can't pretend sex doesn't exists.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In Israel, by customs, they married even in 12-13 age. And stronger sexual exploration and urges starts at 15-16.
There's reason for that. Because they're actually growing in understanding all things.
And if you limit them of knowledge of sex and violence, they won't ever develop strong enough to deal with reality.

Thus puritanism view which greatly influenced all modern christianity, is twisted as well. Because it completely restricts all information and are just taught to flee. Like avoidance will solve issues.

It's impossible to be adult, and never experienced sexual feelings. If you hadn't experienced it at least through mastrubation, then you can't properly grow in adult with adult and mature thinking. And thus impossible standards parents hold to their children is just projection of parents incapability to be adults. To teach them rightly.

Anyways, we're taught by internet anyways. But do you really need to cut off all internet in order to avoid something.
But you already know what that something is. You have twisted, demonized and vague idea of what it is.


Puritans mixed lust and attraction as same thing. And that led to wreckage of faith and leads to unbelief.

So, parents can't pretend sex doesn't exists.

Ok, to some extent I might agree with the general premise here, but where are you getting 12-13 years old from? That sounds a tad much, and I'd like some documentation on that first.

As for 15-16, that's generally the age of puberty, and there are statements in the NT to the effect that when they reached the age where their sexuality was kicking, they should indeed be ready to deal with it if they were called to marriage instead of just sweeping it under the rug.

Leading off with 12-13, however, is going to make your argument look... potentially predatorial or worse, so I would suggest if you are going to package it like that you provide documentation, because even if provided some may take issue with it nonetheless. Not everything the OT Jews were doing was completely in line with the will of God.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden in Him

 

[addonai]

Ok, to some extent I might agree with the general premise here, but where are you getting 12-13 years old from? That sounds a tad much, and I'd like some documentation on that first.

Hmm, well I've read it on GotQuestions. It was more like arranged marriage. Maybe they married at 16 as well, most of it was arranged.
Also, in our current society it's really hard to marry yk. High cost of living, puts off everyones thoughts out of living together. And a lot of our current social issues, makes it hard to get married at 16-18 and have fulfilling life. Because it's at least expected you go at college if you want normal life with career. And that's 22-24yrs.
Most people do premarital sex, trying to live together by buying sharing rent, but still nothing permanent like marriage.
Where in christian case, he won't be able to go that option. And if they marry, then both of them can't really receive much support from parents, and have to manage themselves more independently, and it's expected so.

And weird thing, is my father used to tell me "not to chase by woman".. okay, I understand. beauty is fleeting. But at same time, bible says we can just marry if we can't control it ?
In our society, marriage introduces much more responsibilities we're simply not equipped to deal with.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hmm, well I've read it on GotQuestions. It was more like arranged marriage. Maybe they married at 16 as well, most of it was arranged.

That sounds more like it, yes.

Also, in our current society it's really hard to marry yk. High cost of living, puts off everyones thoughts out of living together. And a lot of our current social issues, makes it hard to get married at 16-18 and have fulfilling life. Because it's at least expected you go at college if you want normal life with career. And that's 22-24yrs.

I agree.

In our society, marriage introduces much more responsibilities we're simply not equipped to deal with.

And the youth are not being prepared for it psychologically and financially like they used to be 100 years ago, when they were still marrying at early ages.

So tell me, are you posting this in part because of your own frustrations with your upbringing, or is it just a discussional topic? I know in my case it bothers me to this day that I wasn't able to be successfully married to the girl I lost my virginity to when I was 16. I was not Christian, and nowhere near prepared for marriage at the time, so there is no way on earth it would have ever worked. But I loved her, and if I had been better prepared for sexuality when it hit me like a freight train maybe I could have kept from having a broken heart and wandering about for years looking for someone to fill her shoes cuz she was never coming back.

 

[addonai]

Hidden In Him well mostly upbringing.
Effect is not felt at the time, but after time when you see how much you've missed on.

Like I've never kissed a girl still due to these things.

And I don't know how to talk to father about these topics either. I suspect he would say "it's your choice now". But still all those drilling in my childhood which I followed in teens. And now I'm expected to have a girl and get babies ? How is it in few years they go from "sex bad" to "where grandchildren ?" and suddenly it's exepected of you to know those things.

I'm mostly struggling with peer pressure and possibility of premarital sex. My father probably would say "your choice, deal with it". But that's so irresponsible, after bringing me shame for even feeling sexual before, and now I"m exepected to know how to deal with peer presure ?

It's easy for him to say "get out of it" (bad company of people), then nobody see me as adult. More like a child. Because I cant be in that circle, I dont get their trust. And it greatly affect my jobs, I cant work in team effectively if Im not able to hold some conversation with colleagues with coffee.

Because at my age, its expected I already have girlfriend. And feel less of adult, and thus excluded from team in job from their conversations. And that make it they trust me less, and simply wont be able to get job next time because they havent found enjoyable interactions with me.


It seems like parents wanted to keep me in dark as long as possible. And with shame even if i found out. But it just hurted me in the end.

I dont know how to act macho, gentleman with woman on date, because I just never indulged in things like hookups, casual sex, etc. which is what they do. And I keep myself away from such games and temptations.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Because at my age, its expected I already have girlfriend. And feel less of adult

Well don't. Scripture commands those who are single if they have dedicated themselves to serving the Lord Jesus Christ even more earnestly, so ignore what others are saying and give yourself completely to serving Him. If He has a wife for you, she will be provided at the appropriate time.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden In Him

 

[D-D-W]

Ok, to some extent I might agree with the general premise here, but where are you getting 12-13 years old from? That sounds a tad much, and I'd like some documentation on that first.

Read Jewish history. The Mishnah and Talmuds record all of that, as do the hundreds of extant first century Ketuvim. (marriage contracts)

A brief outline of the process: (outside Jerusalem)
Marriages were typically arranged by the parents when the couple were 8-9 years old. Both the boy and girl had the right of refusal. When they reached about 11-12, there was a formal contract drawn up (the Ketuba) which outlined many aspects of married life.

After negotiations between the 2 families concluded, there would be a party and the couple were betrothed but not fully married. At this point it took a formal divorce to separate the couple. It is where Joseph and Mary were at when she started carrying the Messiah. THis period typically lasted about a year where the boy would build a house (often a new wing off his father's house) for the new family. When his dad said the house was complete and up to standards, he would tell the son to go get his bride and they would then consummate the marriage, again followed by a long party. So at this point the couple were about 12-13 years old.

Of note: if the parents of one of the couple were to die before the finished house and consummation, the other parents were to take the orphan in as their own child. And the Mishnah says that if the couple has sex, it is considered a fully legal and binding marriage if both are over the age of "nine years plus one day." Tractate Ketuvim.

 

[Tenchi]

In Israel, by customs, they married even in 12-13 age. And stronger sexual exploration and urges starts at 15-16.
There's reason for that. Because they're actually growing in understanding all things.
And if you limit them of knowledge of sex and violence, they won't ever develop strong enough to deal with reality.

Isaiah 33:15
15 He who walks righteously ...stops his ears from hearing about bloodshed And shuts his eyes from looking upon evil;

Psalm 101:3
3 I will set no wicked thing before my eyes: I hate the work of them who turn aside; it shall not cling to me.

Thus puritanism view which greatly influenced all modern christianity, is twisted as well. Because it completely restricts all information and are just taught to flee. Like avoidance will solve issues.

Philippians 4:8
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

2 Peter 2:7-8
7 ...Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)

Ephesians 5:3-12
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.
5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not become partners with them;
8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),
10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret.

It's impossible to be adult, and never experienced sexual feelings. If you hadn't experienced it at least through mastrubation, then you can't properly grow in adult with adult and mature thinking.

Says who?

Anyways, we're taught by internet anyways. But do you really need to cut off all internet in order to avoid something.
But you already know what that something is. You have twisted, demonized and vague idea of what it is.

Romans 13:13-14
13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.
14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

 

[Who Me]

What is meant by " the modern Christian view of sensuality "?

How does a 21st century Christian's view of sensuality differ from what the Bible teaches?

Take a look at the results of surveys which show that modern Christians view of sensuality is not biblical, but worldly.

Most Americans think cohabitation leads to a stable marriage, but what does the data say?

If there’s one thing that ought to lead people to Christianity, it’s the proven ability of the Christian moral rules to guide believers away from the sins that destroy them. A lot of mo…

winteryknight.com

 

[D-D-W]

What is meant by " the modern Christian view of sensuality "?

Modern views have gotten us into a whole lot of trouble, biblically speaking.

Take a look at the results of surveys which show that modern Christians view of sensuality is not biblical, but worldly.

Surveys only show human opinions. Neither modern sentiments or historical church views are accurate in the lines of biblical morality. We have churches waving the gay rainbow flags and the early church fathers that idolized virginity, to the point that they would emasculate them selves and teach that God so hates marital relations that the Holy Spirit has to vacate the building if a married couple indulge in that.

You want biblical sexuality? Read the Song of Solomon in the original Hebrew.

 

[Who Me]

Modern views have gotten us into a whole lot of trouble, biblically speaking.

Surveys only show human opinions. Neither modern sentiments or historical church views are accurate in the lines of biblical morality. We have churches waving the gay rainbow flags and the early church fathers that idolized virginity, to the point that they would emasculate them selves and teach that God so hates marital relations that the Holy Spirit has to vacate the building if a married couple indulge in that.

You want biblical sexuality? Read the Song of Solomon in the original Hebrew.

Surveys reveal what people believe, and as such are valuable.

Biblical morality is simple. Sex is for between husband and wife.
There are no exceptions to this.

 

[D-D-W]

Biblical morality is simple. Sex is for between husband and wife.

The early church fathers taught that sex was ONLY for making "more virgins for the church." St Jerome. And that God hates marital sex. They thought THAT was biblical morality.

Paul said in 1 Cor 7 that "it is better to marry than to burn." So what to you tell a 13 or 14 year old that is burning now? Or someone who found a way at age 13 to turn off the burning but now they are married and cannot turn it back on again?

IMO your understanding is way too simple.

 

[Christian Saboteur]

Country Western Singer Loretta Lynn was married at 15,at her first of 6 children at 16.





Well,I was born a coal miners daughter
On a hill in Butcher Holler.

 

[jasonc]

Honestly would you want a teen these days who can't

Drive a car
Use or own a fire arm to hunt ,butcher said kill
Fish and clean and cook
Build , maintenance a house
Grow as needed


I could add to that but it's an exception that much of the above my wife was already doing and her brother .her dad was hunting rather than in school and could operate heavy equipment at this age because his dad used him to build and taught him these things .

My wife killed chickens ,picked fruit ,fished and hunting was more of her brother's thing .

A kid from New York will know nothing of these things .

 

[Hidden In Him]

The early church fathers taught that sex was ONLY for making "more virgins for the church." St Jerome. And that God hates marital sex. They thought THAT was biblical morality.

Again, DW, if I could have the exact quotes on that it would be appreciated. I know something similar (but milder) was adopted by the Catholic Church. Just wondering if you have this actually handy somewhere so I can look at it.

Blessings,
- H

 

[D-D-W]

Again, DW, if I could have the exact quotes on that it would be appreciated. I know something similar (but milder) was adopted by the Catholic Church. Just wondering if you have this actually handy somewhere so I can look at it.

Blessings,
- H

Actually I wish I had those exact quotes. I looked them up on line about 15 or 20 years ago, but now the sites I had linked took all that stuff off or don't exist any more.

Not sure why, but I read recently that any web page over about 5 years old gets taken down.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Not sure why, but I read recently that any web page over about 5 years old gets taken down.

Maybe on some sites, yes. But unless they've changed things recently, it cannot be the case with the Christian forums, cuz I've seen people dig stuff up from the crypt that no one has seen in over 20 years.

Just ask the JWs, Lol.

 

[Who Me]

The early church fathers taught that sex was ONLY for making "more virgins for the church." St Jerome. And that God hates marital sex. They thought THAT was biblical morality.

Paul said in 1 Cor 7 that "it is better to marry than to burn." So what to you tell a 13 or 14 year old that is burning now? Or someone who found a way at age 13 to turn off the burning but now they are married and cannot turn it back on again?

IMO your understanding is way too simple.

Where does the bible teach that pre marital sex is a good thing?

 

[D-D-W]

Where does the bible teach that pre marital sex is a good thing?

It certainly does not. It also implies that "burning" with desire is not good.

So either we go back to having people get married in their early to mid teens, or .... Give me another alternative.

 

[Tenchi]

It certainly does not. It also implies that "burning" with desire is not good.

So either we go back to having people get married in their early to mid teens, or .... Give me another alternative.

??? How about living under the control of the Holy Spirit?

Galatians 5:16
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

Romans 8:11-13
11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Philippians 4:13
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

Ephesians 3:16
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

Galatians 5:24
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.