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Bible Study Modern Versions Lowering the Person of Jesus Christ

Re: "learn Hebrew and Greek"

brandplucked said:
Hi element. First, you have no way AT ALL of determing if the KJB matches the originals or not, so don't automatically assume that they don't.

The opposite is also true.

As for the rest of your post. You make a very good point. I will look into it more.
 
Inerrant Bible

Hi element, thanks for considering the issue. I suspect that most here have not responded to this post because they realize that they do not believe any Bible or any text in any language is now the complete, inerrant and inspired word of God.

So, if any of you out there stand up in church or the pulpit, or witness on the streets saying: "The Bible is the inspired word of God", what exactly are you referring to when you say this? Are you lying or using deceit when you use these words?

Will Kinney
 
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Thanks for this links:
they reveal volumes about subtle changes in new versions of the bible!
http://www.avpublications.com/5_critiques/blind_guides/bg_pt3.htm http://www.av1611.org/attack.html


In addition, I highly recommend people also read the exerpts from the book In Awe of They Word. On the web site, there are many more excerpts are provided, anyone can see for themselves how sly the new versions take small but important meaning out of the sciputre. Pay particular attention to the importance of the "language" used in the King James Bible. And do please, take time to read and not just skim the information there. :-?

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=160173#160173


God Bless

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The Deity of Christ is of vital importance to the Christian and we must be sure that the Bible we are using upholds the Deity of Christ in every point. As I said at the beginning this is by no means all the verses where the modern versions take away from the Deity of Christ. I could have easily listed many more but I believe the ones listed at least make you aware of the problem in modern versions. The argument is often made that the modern versions don’t completely deny the Deity of Christ. To this I will agree. There are still some verses in the modern versions that attest to the Deity of Christ. However, as you have seen, it is a whole lot harder to prove the Deity of Christ in the modern versions than it is in the KJV. The question must also be asked, “what will they alter in the versions that are yet to be translated?†If they have went this far out of the way to water down the Deity of Christ one would have to wonder when they will eventually do away with any reference to the Deity of Christ. As I have shown you the KJV is far superior in presenting and preserving the Deity of Christ. As Christians we must reject any translation that deals treacherously with the Deity of Christ. It is our job to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.†If we will do this honestly we will cling to the Bible that without question bolsters the Deity of Christ.

Read more here:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/deity_of_christ_and_modern_versions.htm
 
I do understand what some are saying about certain current versions being "watered down". Instead of making a literal translation, some translate just to the idea. Others are more concerned about gender neutral words than what the author intended to state. The list goes on and on. I prefer the DR, RSV, NASB, and have been trying out the ESV.

My big question in regards to all the above posts is this: The AV is from 1611. That is well over a thousand years after the the death and resurrection of Jesus. How was the Deity of Christ defended or taught prior to the KJV? It is obvious from the early councils that the nature of Jesus was far from agreed upon.
 
There is no scriptural support for King James Onlyism. It is a complete crock of plant enhancer to assert that ANY translation is inerrant, translation is an art not a science, all translators 'adjust' the text they are translating simply because a concept / word in one language does not always translate successfully into another.

Finally, the KJV translators themselves disagree with you and your stance:

“Now to the latter we answer; that we do not deny, nay we affirm and avow, that the very meanest translation of the Bible in English, set forth by men of our profession, (for we have seen none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. As the King’s speech, which he uttereth in Parliament, being translated into French, Dutch, Italian, and Latin, is still the King’s speech, though it be not interpreted by every Translator with the like grace, nor peradventure so fitly for phrase, nor so expressly for sense, everywhere. For it is confessed, that things are to take their denomination of the greater part; and a natural man could say, Verum ubi multa nitent in carmine, non ego paucis offendor maculis, etc. [Horace.] A man may be counted a virtuous man, though he have made many slips in his life, (else, there were none virtuous, for in many things we offend all) [James 3:2] also a comely man and lovely, though he have some warts upon his hand, yea, not only freckles upon his face, but also scars. No cause therefore why the word translated should be denied to be the word, or forbidden to be current, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting forth of it. For whatever was perfect under the Sun, where Apostles or Apostolic men, that is, men endued with an extraordinary measure of God’s spirit, and privileged with the privilege of infallibility, had not their hand?... Judge by an example or two... So, by the story of Ezra, and the prophecy of Haggai it may be gathered, that the Temple built by Zerubbabel after the return from Babylon, was by no means to be compared to the former built by Solomon (for they that remembered the former, wept when they considered the latter) [Ezra 3:12] notwithstanding, might this latter either have been abhorred and forsaken by the Jews, or profaned by the Greeks? The like we are to think of Translations.â€
 
It is a complete crock of plant enhancer to assert that ANY translation is inerrant
Don't believe it when people tell you that the word of God is found only in the originals--which NOBODY has. Jesus made a promise, and we know that He cannot lie:
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." - Matthew 24:35
Many Bible college students, professors, pastors, teachers and lay people talk about, "we believe in the inerrancy of the scriptures as found in the originals"---NOBODY has the originals. They are saying that we don't have God's word today which directly contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew 24:35. The faith of many young Christians is shattered by the time they leave Bible college. Don't fall prey to this trap.

Someone once commented in an e-mail that I'm "arguing" about an unimportant point. That is untrue. The New Testament is full of warnings about Satan and false prophets trying to deceive us. Are these warnings given to us in vain? No, they're not. Let us be like the Berean Christians and check out everything that comes our way in the light of the Word of God comparing spiritual things with spiritual. The Bible says that we are in a war. That means that we are fighting and contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. If you don't find yourself standing and fighting for the things of God, you've got to re-examine your walk. Can you see how our faith would be all messed up if Satan could change the Bible to say whatever he wants it to say? Can you see how all these different "versions" are desensitizing even true Christians to manipulation of God's word?
I have a very pitiful quote by a man who sat on the NASB translating committee--he laments that he ever had anything to do with messing with the word of God and tells people that Satan is behind all new versions.

From:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/innerrant.htm
 
Finally, the KJV translators themselves disagree with you and your stance:

I would like it if you could provide a source to your quote.

QUESTION: Did the translators of the Authorized Version claim to be inspired by God?

ANSWER: No. But Biblically that does not mean that they could NOT have been inspired.

EXPLANATION: The men on the translation committee of the King James Bible were, without dispute, the most learned men of their day and vastly qualified for the job which they undertook. They were overall both academically qualified by their cumulative knowledge and spiritually qualified by their exemplary lives.
Among their company were men who, academically, took a month's vacation and used the time to learn and master an entirely foreign language; wrote a Persian dictionary; invented a specialized mathematical ruler; one was an architect; mastered oriental languages; publicly debated in Greek; tutored Queen Elizabeth in Greek and mathematics; and of one it was said, "Hebrew he had at his finger's end." Yet head knowledge can be a curse if not tempered by a fervent, pious heart.
In this, the spiritual realm, they were light years ahead of many today who flaunt their education yet fail in any attempt at a practical, personal witness.
This company was blessed with men known for their zeal and tact in debating and converting Romanists to Christ. They spent hours in private and family devotions. Many did the work of evangelism and even that of missionary representatives of later Queen Elizabeth. One lived to the age of one hundred and three years. In the closing years of his life, after preaching for two full hours, he said to his congregation, "I will no longer trespass on your patience"--to which the entire congregation cried out with one consent, "For God's sake go on!" He then continued his exposition of the Word of God at length.
Yet humanity was a universal trait shared among them as is so amply revealed in the Epistle Dedicatory:
"So that if, on the one side, we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God's holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people, whom they desire still to keep in ignorance and darkness; or if, on the other side, we shall be maligned by self- conceited Brethren, who run their own ways, and give liking unto nothing, but what is framed by themselves, and hammered on their anvil;...."
Yet, in spite of their outstanding character, they never claimed divine inspiration. (A claim which, if they had made, would overjoy their detractors as evidence of a prideful spirit.) They never even claimed perfection for their finished work.
Does this mean that, because they did not claim God's hand in translating the Scripture, that He could not be or was not in control of their commission? For the answer we must look to the Bible, our final authority in all matters of faith and practice.
When John the Baptist was accosted by the Levites in John chapter one and asked if he was Elijah (John 1:21) he answered that he was not Elijah. Yet in Matthew chapters 11:7-14 and 17:10-13 Jesus Christ plainly stated that John was Elijah.
Did John the Baptist lie? No. Did Jesus Christ lie? Of course not. The answer is very simply that John was Elijah but he didn't know it! Thus we see from our Bible example that a man can have God working through him and not know it. Likewise, God could easily have divinely directed the King James translators without their active knowledge.

From:
http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/inspiration.html
 
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