Most American Gays are Christian

[Blazin Bones]

[quote="Blazin Bones":2x6wdhg4]Lewis is right. Scripture sides with him. The thin line seems to be that you lie once, you ask for repentance , you turn and stop lying. This is not true for a "homosexual". They live their lives according to this sin. If you lust after the same gender and then live a life constantly acting on that sin, how can you say you have given you life over to God?

No, he took a line out of context that "looks" like it is against homosexuals. When in reality, the entire chapter was agaisnt Idoltray. If I want to play the same game I could make it look like God Hates Women, or pull some WBC bull and make it look like God hates America, Sweden, Santa, etc.

Pulling one line out is dangerous. The entire chapter/book needs to be looked at. Other wise I'll start pulling things out of Leviticus and prove that no one here can inheritate the kingdom of heaven based on cleanliness laws.

Don't forget Romans 1 and 2 talked about the position of Women, Slaves, Government, and pretty much states that Leviticus is still completely valid. ;)[/quote:2x6wdhg4]

I will assume you have a degree in both greek and Hebrew then to be so certain of context? I have no degrees in either, but I do have three semesters of greek under my belt and I am more than to break out my Greek New Testament for some gramar studies. You interpretation assume that homosexuality is natural and so that only unnaturally homosexual persons were involved. That requires the discovery of a Gay gene which has yet to occur.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

[quote="Lance_Iguana":1s3pw8sp][quote="Blazin Bones":1s3pw8sp]Lewis is right. Scripture sides with him. The thin line seems to be that you lie once, you ask for repentance , you turn and stop lying. This is not true for a "homosexual". They live their lives according to this sin. If you lust after the same gender and then live a life constantly acting on that sin, how can you say you have given you life over to God?

No, he took a line out of context that "looks" like it is against homosexuals. When in reality, the entire chapter was agaisnt Idoltray. If I want to play the same game I could make it look like God Hates Women, or pull some WBC bull and make it look like God hates America, Sweden, Santa, etc.

Pulling one line out is dangerous. The entire chapter/book needs to be looked at. Other wise I'll start pulling things out of Leviticus and prove that no one here can inheritate the kingdom of heaven based on cleanliness laws.

Don't forget Romans 1 and 2 talked about the position of Women, Slaves, Government, and pretty much states that Leviticus is still completely valid. ;)[/quote:1s3pw8sp]You don't need a degree to know that there is no word in hebrew or Greek for homosexual. The actual sexuality concept didnt' even become an issue until modern psychology and biology started in the 1800s. The actual terms Heterosexual, Bi Sexual, GID, and Homosexual are modern terms that don't translate well into older languages.

I will assume you have a degree in both greek and Hebrew then to be so certain of context? I have no degrees in either, but I do have three semesters of greek under my belt and I am more than to break out my Greek New Testament for some gramar studies. You interpretation assume that homosexuality is natural and so that only unnaturally homosexual persons were involved. That requires the discovery of a Gay gene which has yet to occur.[/quote:1s3pw8sp]

 

[Lance_Iguana]

If you post the entire chapter, you wold notice that these "men" where partaking in an idol worship ritual. This passage also says "unatural" This means these "men" where straight males that went gay. To be honest, Its not very common to find Gay males within the gay community that used to have active heterosexual sex relations.

Lance, I have met 3 transvestites that are fathers.

Ah, a transvestite is a straight or Gay male that dresses like a female. That doesn't automatically mean the person is gay. You could have also met Transgender/ a person with GID. Witch doesn't mean gay.

Did these Transvestites identify as gay?

 

[Lewis]

One more time it is against homosexuals and when that book was wrote, you would be killed if they found you to be one. Even when the early Americans came here, they were still killing you if they found you to be gay, why, because the Bible says it is a abomination. It also says in Romans that they deserve death, Romans :1-32. Now you can twist it all you want, it still don't change a thing.

 

[jasoncran]

One more time it is against homosexuals and when that book was wrote, you would be killed if they found you to be one. Even when the early Americans came here, they were still killing you if they found you to be gay, why, because the Bible says it is a abomination. It also says in Romans that they deserve death, Romans :1-32. Now you can twist it all you want, it still don't change a thing.

lewis youre are right here but i then would deserve death as well, that spirit is done away with, now is the spirit of love and truth and grace, I recieved grace for my sin, Lance hasnt yet been made aware. lance you know what i feel the scriptures say and I wont get into the fray with you, but i had to comment on this

 

[Blazin Bones]

You don't need a degree to know that there is no word in hebrew or Greek for homosexual. The actual sexuality concept didnt' even become an issue until modern psychology and biology started in the 1800s. The actual terms Heterosexual, Bi Sexual, GID, and Homosexual are modern terms that don't translate well into older languages.

You may or may not need a degree to know what words are or are not in Greek, but it does take a degree to determine context of the old texts. So again, do you have degrees that give you such authority to derive the context of the original greek or do you just assume the ideas of others?

 

[Lewis]

One more time it is against homosexuals and when that book was wrote, you would be killed if they found you to be one. Even when the early Americans came here, they were still killing you if they found you to be gay, why, because the Bible says it is a abomination. It also says in Romans that they deserve death, Romans :1-32. Now you can twist it all you want, it still don't change a thing.

lewis youre are right here but i then would deserve death as well, that spirit is done away with, now is the spirit of love and truth and grace, I recieved grace for my sin, Lance hasnt yet been made aware. lance you know what i feel the scriptures say and I wont get into the fray with you, but i had to comment on this

The key Jason is to repent, the word repent means, to turn away from. So when you do that God will pardon you.

 

[jasoncran]

i have lewis

 

[Lewis]

i have lewis

I know you have Jason, and I love you man.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

[quote="Lewis W":44u8pxvk]One more time it is against homosexuals and when that book was wrote, you would be killed if they found you to be one. Even when the early Americans came here, they were still killing you if they found you to be gay, why, because the Bible says it is a abomination. It also says in Romans that they deserve death, Romans :1-32. Now you can twist it all you want, it still don't change a thing.

lewis youre are right here but i then would deserve death as well, that spirit is done away with, now is the spirit of love and truth and grace, I recieved grace for my sin, Lance hasnt yet been made aware. lance you know what i feel the scriptures say and I wont get into the fray with you, but i had to comment on this

The key Jason is to repent, the word repent means, to turn away from. So when you do that God will pardon you.[/quote:44u8pxvk]I'm not repenting for something he gave me. I'm tired of people telling me I can change. As soon as you can prove you can change. Even though Jason claims he has changed, he could be the exception to the rule.

Becaus thanks to actual turn out rates, most don't change, or return to their old ways. Its also quite well known that 72% of gay males and females that attempt to change end up either going to homes where they have had psychological meltdowns or end up killing themselves when they can't change.

So as soon as you can become gay, then change back. Don't tell me ( who tried to change mind you), how Its just a matter of repenting. People like you who are militant about ignoring the criess and please from homosexuals/ Bisexuals/ GID/ and Itnersexed make me sick! You don't know our plight, so don't tell us how its just a matter of repenting!

 

[Lance_Iguana]

You don't need a degree to know that there is no word in hebrew or Greek for homosexual. The actual sexuality concept didnt' even become an issue until modern psychology and biology started in the 1800s. The actual terms Heterosexual, Bi Sexual, GID, and Homosexual are modern terms that don't translate well into older languages.

You may or may not need a degree to know what words are or are not in Greek, but it does take a degree to determine context of the old texts. So again, do you have degrees that give you such authority to derive the context of the original greek or do you just assume the ideas of others?

No but many who have have been saying for ages that the word homosexual never appeared in the bible or in the context that is used by modern politicians today.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Okay, but I am asking you to show me your personal experience with the greek which has led you to beleive that there is a distinguishing between 'natural' Homosexuality and "unnatural". If you can make this case from the original context of Roman's one you might have an actual basis to support the ideas you have suggested in this thread.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Okay, but I am asking you to show me your personal experience with the greek which has led you to beleive that there is a distinguishing between 'natural' Homosexuality and "unnatural". If you can make this case from the original context of Roman's one you might have an actual basis to support the ideas you have suggested in this thread.

In short, unless I go to a university and get a degree in Greek and Hebrew I can't even side with those that are against this modern translation. :gah

Then I put this out, no one should be able to talk about any context of the Bible. I hardly doubt the majority here has these degrees, so we could all be wrong and should just stop discussing the Bible.

We can't go back to original source so none of us have any authority here then.

 

[Lewis]

Well it is simple, you are not ready to change yet, it has to be in your heart, you don't even think being gay is really a sin. And you have put a wall up I see.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Well it is simple, you are not ready to change yet, it has to be in your heart, you don't even think being gay is really a sin. And you have put a wall up I see.

Of course, I'm just not ready to change . To be quite blunt I've only accepted my sexuality for about a 2.5 years now. I spent most of my teen years suppressing my sexuality, forcing myself to find something in women I found attractive, and prayed "allot", followed advice I got from online sources, and even became extremely depressed for years trying to change. Yep I simply wasn't ready. I didn't get dangerously close to suicide just because I couldn't change, it was just because God didn't think I was ready.


YOU MAKE ME SICK! Its people like you that keep telling us who are different that its so easy and its just a matter of time, but refuse to talk to us and acknowledge the plethora of research done into sexuality. You plug your ears and think that just because you are straight, that everyone else is as well. YOU DON"T KNOW OUR PLIGHT, SO STOP TELLING US HOW IT IS!

 

[Lewis]

Lance do as you please, God will deal with you, I don't have the power, but He does, and He is giving you time to repent, and if you don't from a hard heart towards Him and His word, He will destroy you. So you can say (you people make me sick) all you want, I preach God's rules not my own. So take it up with Him. I don't care what you say it don't change a thing, because His word still stands.

 

[Blazin Bones]

In short, unless I go to a university and get a degree in Greek and Hebrew I can't even side with those that are against this modern translation. :gah

Then I put this out, no one should be able to talk about any context of the Bible. I hardly doubt the majority here has these degrees, so we could all be wrong and should just stop discussing the Bible.

We can't go back to original source so none of us have any authority here then.

No, you can side with them all you want, but if you are seeking to have an honest intelectual discussion first hand knowledge comes in handy. I do not have a degree but I can pick up a greek new Testament and roughly translate the text. This is to say that I do not need to relay on the presumptions of others, I can do the ground work myself.

You are advocating that the passage in Romans 1 is a passage refering to idolotry and unnatural homosexuality, and that there is nothing to the passage that condemns natural homsexuality. I am merely supposing the opposite. Roman's 1 in a clear indication that a man/woman lying with another man/woman as if they would the opposite sex is sin. I am asking you to provide the evidence that supports your claim.

There is nothing in the greek or the surface english for that matter which denounces just an "unnatural" homosexuality. For this the idea of genetics proving the practice would have to at least be a current cultural thought. Seeing as how Atoms hadn't even been completely defined by biblical times, I doubt they had any clue as to Genetic, "Natural" or Non-Genetic, "Unnatural" homosexuality and that they were different things. So since it is more than logical to assume the idea had not yet arrived to the cultural scope of thought, then it is also logical to assume that any address to homosexuality or the practices related to it were being addressed and put down as sinful.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

[quote="Lance_Iguana":18lr31eq]In short, unless I go to a university and get a degree in Greek and Hebrew I can't even side with those that are against this modern translation. :gah

Then I put this out, no one should be able to talk about any context of the Bible. I hardly doubt the majority here has these degrees, so we could all be wrong and should just stop discussing the Bible.

We can't go back to original source so none of us have any authority here then.

No, you can side with them all you want, but if you are seeking to have an honest intelectual discussion first hand knowledge comes in handy. I do not have a degree but I can pick up a greek new Testament and roughly translate the text. This is to say that I do not need to relay on the presumptions of others, I can do the ground work myself.

You are advocating that the passage in Romans 1 is a passage refering to idolotry and unnatural homosexuality, and that there is nothing to the passage that condemns natural homsexuality. I am merely supposing the opposite. Roman's 1 in a clear indication that a man/woman lying with another man/woman as if they would the opposite sex is sin. I am asking you to provide the evidence that supports your claim.

There is nothing in the greek or the surface english for that matter which denounces just an "unnatural" homosexuality. For this the idea of genetics proving the practice would have to at least be a current cultural thought. Seeing as how Atoms hadn't even been completely defined by biblical times, I doubt they had any clue as to Genetic, "Natural" or Non-Genetic, "Unnatural" homosexuality and that they were different things. So since it is more than logical to assume the idea had not yet arrived to the cultural scope of thought, then it is also logical to assume that any address to homosexuality or the practices related to it were being addressed and put down as sinful.[/quote:18lr31eq]Fine God hates me. I'm done.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

Look what I started.

Personally, it is not for me to judge. It is for God to judge. I have read quite a bit on the different interpretations of various passages in the bible and opinions are split often times. I do know one thing. To become a Christian and to be saved one must

1. I acknowledge I am a sinner in need of a Savior - this is to repent or turn away from sin

2. I believe in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead - this is to trust that Jesus paid the full penalty for my sins

3. I confess Jesus as my Lord and my God - this is to surrender control of my life to Jesus

4. I receive Jesus as my Savior forever - this is to accept that God has done for me and in me what He promised

So, we are all sinners and will continue to be sinners. I think none of us can say that we have not consciously committed a sin after becoming a Christian. I have. I still do. For any of us to condemn another brother or sister based on what we "think" the bible says is taking up a position worthy of God and is wrong.

Lance_Iguana, you are my brother and I love you! Only you with your relationship in Christ and God can determine what your walk with him should look like. Pray on it, look for guidance from God and move on knowing that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit will guide you and show you the way. No one here can tell you how to make those decisions or what to do with your faith or the plan that God has for you.

As fellow brothers and sisters we should support each other and our search for our purpose in God's eyes and how we should live our lives. Regardless of our personal opinions we should not lash out and condemn other believers. We walk together in our faith in God.

God's speed brother.

 

[jasoncran]

lance, i will now speak on this and it will be my only one directed to you, yes i'm done with school work, no, the Lord doesnt hate you rather he's reaching out to you, You may not be able to see that now, if he hated you then he must hate me as well and why die on the cross for me , i not only did what you do, but worse, i stole money from not only the those who i could conn,and i also stole money from my owm mother, how crappy is that, yes i deserve hell, but i recieved mercy. In time when you are ready repent, we cant change or force you, only the Lord can. I can remember the shame that i felt upon my repentence, that's the key and he the Lord will do the rest, I was born again and new better, but was decieved by the man i had relations with, because i was looking for a person to fill my hurt and to accept me as me and that person did that, but it was wrong and the Lord dealt with me and I repented and truthfully while the desire to be gay is gone the Identity damage is still there,the Lord through his word is slowly lining me up to his definition of what a man should be, and i fall miserably short. However the Lord is patient. If he loved me liked that he loves you the same

jason