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Mother of God

Malachi

Member
On another thread, an Orthodox chant was mentioned which included intercession by the "Mother of God'. It appeared to be "harmless", and that's the reason for this post (which is not meant to address any other issues connected with the "Traditional Churches"). Christians need to think about this designation for Mary and see what impact it has doctrinally. And whether it is even legitimate in the ligth of Scripture.

The early churches were Greek-speaking, and it would appear that the Greek term theotokos, translated "Mother of God" was coined possibly in the 3rd century. While most evangelical Christians are not familiar with Orthodox and other theology, both traditions somehow involve Mary in the plan of salvation. Orthodox and others venerate Mary as the "Mediatrix" between God and men, and the above chant conveyed that thought.

For those who hold to the written Word of God as the sole authority for all doctrine (2 Tim 3:16), "Mother of God" needs to be examined in the light of Scripture. What exactly does the New Testament say about Mary (who as a virgin had a supernatural conception by the power of the Holy Ghost, and brought forth her firstborn son, Jesus)?

1. Since God is the triune Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) "Mother of God" implies "mother of the Godhead" which is false. The term is not "Motherof Jesus" but "Mother of God", and it is impossible for God to have a mother.

2. When Christ, at the age of twelve, remained behind in Jerusalem to discourse with the learned "doctors" in the Temple, neither Mary nor Joseph really understood who their son was and what His objective was on earth (Lk 2:41-50) -- "and they understood not the saying which He spake unto them" (v 50). This shows that they were both only human, though righteous.

3. While Jesus was on this earth, Mary did not fully understand Him, even though He was her son by birth. This is clear from the account of the marriage at Cana of Galilee (Jn 2:1-11), as well as the account of His family members trying to get His attention in the midst of His public ministry (Mt 12:46-50). That shows that she was only human, though righteous.

4. Each time the Lord addressed Mary his mother directly he called her "Woman", not "Mother" (Jn 2:4; 19:36). This was a formal mode of address, and the point was that Christ was distancing Himself from the woman who had given Him birth. He was "the Lord from Heaven" (1 Cor 15:47). Hence Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist addressed Mary as "the mother of my Lord" (Lk 1:43). Hence Christ told all His hearers that He had dissociated Himself from earthly familial ties (Mt 12:48), and that all those who did the will of God -- His disciples -- were "my brother, and sister, and mother" (Mt 12:50). This is the first clear indication that she could not in future be called "the Mother of God".

5. What really goes to the heart of the unscriptural term "Mother of God" is that Christ plainly and clearly told Mary in no uncertain terms that His ministry on earth ( including His finished work of redemption on the Cross and in His resurrection) had nothing whatsoever to do with Mary (Jn 2:4); "WOMAN, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE..." This may sound harsh, but we can be sure it was said with love and respect, but also with a clear demarcation between God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) and His completely human mother. In future ages, no one reading the NT would ever need to wonder about Mary being involved with our salvation in any way, shape or form. Her role was strictly that of virgin mother to Christ.

6. Whenever Mary is mentioned in the Gospels and Acts, she is called "the mother of Jesus". That's it. Never "the Mother of God". She is never mentioned in the epistles or Revelation, other than once by Paul, who is careful to say regarding the birth of Christ "made of a woman" (Gal 4:4) to remind Christians that the Messiah would be "the seed of the woman" (Gen 3:15), a prophetic statement made to Satan after the Fall.

7. To sum up, Mary cannot legitimately be called "the Mother of God", and Mary has nothing whatsoever to do with our salvation, or special intercession for Christians at the Throne of Grace. All believers have direct access to God (Heb 10:11-22), where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father, as "the one Mediator between God and men" (1 Tim 2:5). Thus Mariolatry is idolatry.
 
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I grew up Catholic so I know exactly what you are saying. When I started reading scripture for myself I was able to see what you are saying, but I know the reason why Mary might be a positive person in one's faith.

She supplied the "Son of Man" part of Jesus. He would only be considered the Son of God if Mary didn't have anything to do with him coming in flesh.

The flesh part is the fallen part that Jesus came to conquer. This does not make Jesus any less divine, because the paternal is Son of God. One of my personal favorite scriptures is:

Luke 1:46-48 And Mary said: "My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed,

This is exactly how I felt when I was given revelation from God. Just because she said all generations will call me blessed, didn't mean she wasn't humble in spirit. It goes back to my thread about Christians and self-defense. A humble spirit submits to that TOTAL will of God. They do not have their own agenda, but want to rely on God for his total guidance. This is why she was not offended when her Son would rebuke her. She did know who he is.
 
Mary had a little lamb
His fleece was white as snow
And every where that Mary went
The lamb was sure to go
 
Mary had a little lamb
His fleece was white as snow
And every where that Mary went
The lamb was sure to go

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Hey this is really cool stuff.
 
Rollo, is this the best you could come up with? Kindergarten stuff?
No, but it's a start.
I have to start somewhere.
But do you see where Mary's lamb is an "white as snow"?
Is there something to that?
I don't think the lamb considered Mary to be his mother, but they were really close.

Maybe the reference shown Mary by some has some credence to it.
 
A humble answer Rollo, and full of truth.

I never worshiped Mary. And even if I did once have more of a devotion to her than I do now, devotion is not necessarily bad. I am devoted to my wife, and I do not worship her. I'm devoted to my church, but I don't worship it. I request the prayers of my church and my wife, but I don't think they answer them.
 
No, but it's a start.
I have to start somewhere.
But do you see where Mary's lamb is an "white as snow"?
Is there something to that?
I don't think the lamb considered Mary to be his mother, but they were really close.

Maybe the reference shown Mary by some has some credence to it.
And look she lost her lamb....but then she found them :thinking
 
5. What really goes to the heart of the unscriptural term "Mother of God" is that Christ plainly and clearly told Mary in no uncertain terms that His ministry on earth ( including His finished work of redemption on the Cross and in His resurrection) had nothing whatsoever to do with Mary (Jn 2:4); "WOMAN, WHAT HAVE I TO DO WITH THEE..."
Joh 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Joh 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.

1)First thing the term 'woman' is used by Jesus over and over in the scriptures, it is His customary manner when He addressed women.

2)She definitely knew who Jesus was because Elizabeth, while in the Spirit, had told her and John the Baptist had been declaring Him. Mary was neither a stupid woman or blind about spiritual things.
Mary had to have been aware of Jesus' power to do miracles or she wouldn't have brought it up to Him, knowing He could be of assistance.

3)When He said 'what have you to do with me?' Is that what the Greek text says?
This is how Young's Literal Translation reads.
Joh 2:4 Jesus saith to her, `What--to me and to thee, woman? not yet is mine hour come.'
Looking at the Greek with the KJV along side there is clearly the word 'kai' which is 'and'.
The KJV left it out. See for yourself.
www.scripture4all.org
Adam Clarke, who read could read Greek and was of the habit of consulting more than one MSS says this.
"Woman, what have I to do with thee? - Τι εμοι και σοι, γυναι: O, woman, what is this to thee and me? This is an abrupt denial, as if he had said: "We are not employed to provide the necessaries for this feast: this matter belongs to others,...."
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/clarke/john/2.htm

Personally, I think the Father gave Mary a blessing when He used her to start off the beginning of our Lord's public ministry. I know if He were my son I would have felt that God had given me an honor and it would have been a joy and yet very humbling.

And I also see that by complying with His mother's wishes (which must have been the Father's will or He wouldn't have done it) He was obeying the law that says to honor thy father and mother.
And Mary, she also shows her compliance to her Lord by saying, "Do whatever He tells you to do."
 
Maybe the reference shown Mary by some has some credence to it.

I have never been of the persuasion that God simply chose Mary to fulfill the "son of man" prophecy. That undermines the divine will of the Lord, who does nothing by accident or mistake. Mary was highly favored. Do we need to have any sort of devotion or even give her a second thought as it pertains to our own salvation? Surely not, she herself would merely point to Christ. But I will never understand why Christians will put John the Baptist or Apostle Paul or other such men of God in high esteem and think of Mary as just a nobody -- what the Holy Spirit chose to do through her is one of the most profound God-to-man miracles in Christendom, equally if not more valuable than Paul's Damascus experience or Peter's feet on the water, and so on.
 
The Bible does not tell us much of Jesus and his mother.
People tend to quote that he called her "woman" instead of "mom" and that denotes no special regard to her.

But probably the best verse or verses is found in John 19:25-27;
"Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, women, here is your son, and to the disciple, here is your mother. From that time on, this disciple took her into his home".

And then Jesus died.
His last order of business here on planet Earth was to see that his mother was taken care of, not by his brothers and sisters, but by his spiritual friend.

How many people make it their last order of business in life to take care of their mother?
Yes, she held a very special place in his life, more than we will ever know.
 
Short kinda on topic story...
Working in a water bottling plant we bottled water and shipped it...A Mexican/Spanish speaking driver was waiting for his load was swearing like crazy Jesus Christ this and that... i had had enough...Figuring the guy was Catholic... i stopped him said something to the effect ... What to you think the Holy Mother would think of you talking about her son that way? It worked... :)
 
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