Mother of our salvation!

[for_his_glory]

Faith alone? How do you enter a covenant without an initiation ritual? And outward sign?
mother of Jesus, that’s the same as mother of our salvation
Matt 1:21 call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins,
Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation
Mary is his mother, hence mother of our salvation

Mary is a perpetual virgin

The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!

And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!

Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.

(Mary had become the dwelling place of the Almighty, like the Ark of the Covenant in the Old Testament. Mary was a vessel consecrated to God alone?)

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
(The Bible says only the Holy Ghost conceived in Mary)

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(A son singular) (does James save his people?)

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee!

Blessed art thou amongst all women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
(The fruit of Her womb is blessed and holy)

Lk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
(A son, singular)

Lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
(This verse imply’s a vow of perpetual virginity, She refuses even the exalted dignity of mother of God and mother of our savior if it means violating Her vow of perpetual virginity)

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Her son is God)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness!



Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

faith alone sight unknown Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Where in scripture does it say we have to enter a covenant with an initiation ritual and what ritual would that be?

Our outward sign are the fruits of the spirit that we display that others will see Christ in us

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


Our salvation is of God, not Mary, by His grace through faith in His Son Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Mary is the mother of the one who gave His life that in all who will believe in Christ will have life eternal with Him. Mary is the mother of Christ, not the mother of salvation as Mary did not die for our sins, nor should we be praying to her as God is our Father in heaven in whom by Christ who we are to pray to sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

How can Mary be a perpetual virgin when she and Joseph had other children?

I agree scripture says Christ is Holy and her child is fully God and fully man, but the scriptures you have given says nothing about Mary being the mother of salvation.

Mary was not always a virgin as she and Joseph had other children.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Notice in this verse that only Mary is mentioned as normally people would say the son of Joseph and Mary. Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses, Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers an sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Three mothers named Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph, his mother's sister Mary, also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John as John was the beloved disciple of Jesus. Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the Crucifixion of Jesus. When Jesus told John to behold his mother means John's mother as John brought her into his house.

Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

 

[Walpole]

There is nothing ordinary about Mary being the mother of Jesus as she was chosen of God that made her more blessed then other women as she was called to birth the Christ child. Other than that she was just His mother who raised Him. Like everyone else that has died, she lays in her grave waiting till the resurrection of those who are Christ own when He returns on the last day. She is blessed above all women, but not to be bowed down to, worshipped and prayed to. Mary does not hear our prayers, nor can she forgive us.

Just like everyone else? As if it is a normal and ordinary thing to give God a human nature.

 

[Walpole]

faith alone sight unknown Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Where in scripture does it say we have to enter a covenant with an initiation ritual and what ritual would that be?

Our outward sign are the fruits of the spirit that we display that others will see Christ in us

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


Our salvation is of God, not Mary, by His grace through faith in His Son Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Mary is the mother of the one who gave His life that in all who will believe in Christ will have life eternal with Him. Mary is the mother of Christ, not the mother of salvation as Mary did not die for our sins, nor should we be praying to her as God is our Father in heaven in whom by Christ who we are to pray to sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

How can Mary be a perpetual virgin when she and Joseph had other children?

I agree scripture says Christ is Holy and her child is fully God and fully man, but the scriptures you have given says nothing about Mary being the mother of salvation.

Mary was not always a virgin as she and Joseph had other children.

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

Notice in this verse that only Mary is mentioned as normally people would say the son of Joseph and Mary. Jesus had four half brothers, James, Joses, Juda and Simon and some sisters, but it's not known how many sisters he had or what their names were. The reason they were all half brothers an sisters is because Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus.

Three mothers named Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph, his mother's sister Mary, also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John as John was the beloved disciple of Jesus. Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the Crucifixion of Jesus. When Jesus told John to behold his mother means John's mother as John brought her into his house.

Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

You cannot impose a 21st century Western nuclear family structure with our own use of “brother” to that of Jewish culture in antiquity. The term had a much broader use in antiquity.

Scripture does not state Mary of Nazareth had any children other than Jesus Christ. Christ is referred to as the son of Mary, never a son of Mary.


Mary the wife of Cleophas (Clopas) is called the mother of James, Joseph, Simon and Judas in Matthew 13:55. Matthew abbreviates this list by naming (likely) the oldest two, James and Joseph in Matthew 27:56 as this Mary’s (Cleophas) sons. This Mary is stated to be the mother of James and Joses and is also present at the Cross per St. John's Gospel (John 19:25).

Ergo, when James, Joseph, Simon and Judas are called Jesus’ “brothers” in Matthew 13:55, this cannot mean uterine siblings based on the fact that St. Matthew names a different Mary as their mother.

In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we modern Westerners use.

 

[for_his_glory]

Just like everyone else? As if it is a normal and ordinary thing to give God a human nature.

Please explain how you see me giving God a human nature in what I said?

Jesus was fully God and fully man, but not born with the sin nature as all of us are born with for Christ had no sin found in Him.
John 1:14; 1 Timothy 2:5; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:7

 

[Walpole]

Please explain how you see me giving God a human nature in what I said?

Jesus was fully God and fully man, but not born with the sin nature as all of us are born with for Christ had no sin found in Him.
John 1:14; 1 Timothy 2:5; Colossians 2:9; Philippians 2:7

I think you missed my point. Mary gave God a human nature and in so doing, that makes her anything but ordinary. The flesh Christ received, He received from His mother. The same flesh that He used to suffer and redeem man, He received from His mother.

Mary is extraordinary.


As for Jesus having a different nature than us, that is problematic. If Jesus did not have our exact human nature (which you label as "sin nature"), then whatever nature He had is what He redeemed. That means you and I and all other sons of Adam who have a "sin nature" are still not redeemed.

Heb 2:14 ---> "And since these children have a common inheritance of flesh and blood, he too shared that inheritance with them."

 

[Bible]

The throne of Grace is not the throne of Mary.

This is a blatantly false statement and is idolatry. We do not come before the throne of Mary to pray to her in order to find grace in time of need.

That is reserved for God alone.

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:15-16

• Jesus Christ is our Lord, our God, and our High Priest.

Not Mary.



Mary is not the Mother of God. Jesus was the Son of God before Mary was ever born. Mary gave birth to the Man, the flesh and blood body of Jesus Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-3,14





Mary is not a perpetual virgin, as she had sons after Jesus was born.


Then His mother and brothers came to Him, and could not approach Him because of the crowd. And it was told Him by some, who said, “Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, desiring to see You.”
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.” Like 8:19-21



Last Warning!


Do not continue to promote false Catholic Doctrine in this Forum.

We love you and you are certainly welcome here, but do not continue to spread a doctrine of idolatry that places Mary on God’s throne to be worshipped and prayed to. Mary is not the Mother of God.
Really? I thought this was a Chris site with free exchange of ideas, anyone can share their faith!

I never said anything about worship or idolatry or false catholic doctrine

Jesus is the savior and high priest as you say but Mary is this throne from whence Christ bestowes grace Lk 1:28 full of grace, the Lord is with her


Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us they Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

all graces come from the merits of Christ and He came thru Mary, so all graces come thru mary
Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

 

[for_his_glory]

You cannot impose a 21st century Western nuclear family structure with our own use of “brother” to that of Jewish culture in antiquity. The term had a much broader use in antiquity.

Scripture does not state Mary of Nazareth had any children other than Jesus Christ. Christ is referred to as the son of Mary, never a son of Mary.


Mary the wife of Cleophas (Clopas) is called the mother of James, Joseph, Simon and Judas in Matthew 13:55. Matthew abbreviates this list by naming (likely) the oldest two, James and Joseph in Matthew 27:56 as this Mary’s (Cleophas) sons. This Mary is stated to be the mother of James and Joses and is also present at the Cross per St. John's Gospel (John 19:25).

Ergo, when James, Joseph, Simon and Judas are called Jesus’ “brothers” in Matthew 13:55, this cannot mean uterine siblings based on the fact that St. Matthew names a different Mary as their mother.

In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we modern Westerners use.

Please show me in scripture where Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ and after her and Joseph got married. Even Catholic doctrine needs to line up with scripture or it is just man's theories.


Three mothers named Mary:
1. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph and the mother of James and Joses.

2. Jesus mother's sister named Mary also known as Salome the wife of Cleophas and then Zebedee and the mother of James and John (two of the twelve disciples). Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias.
(Note: Mary Salome married Alphaeus, also known as Cleophas, and three of their sons were Apostles being Jude, Thaddeuse Simon the Zealot. Later she married Zebedee and was the mother of James and John.)

3. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus.

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus looked down from the cross and saw His own mother named Mary and standing by her was His disciple John. Jesus then told John to look at his own mother whose name was Mary the wife of Zebedee. From that hour John took his mother to his own home.

 

[Walpole]

Please show me in scripture where Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ and after her and Joseph got married. Even Catholic doctrine needs to line up with scripture or it is just man's theories.


Three mothers named Mary:
1. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph and the mother of James and Joses.

2. Jesus mother's sister named Mary also known as Salome the wife of Cleophas and then Zebedee and the mother of James and John (two of the twelve disciples). Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias.
(Note: Mary Salome married Alphaeus, also known as Cleophas, and three of their sons were Apostles being Jude, Thaddeuse Simon the Zealot. Later she married Zebedee and was the mother of James and John.)

3. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixion of Jesus.

John 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus looked down from the cross and saw His own mother named Mary and standing by her was His disciple John. Jesus then told John to look at his own mother whose name was Mary the wife of Zebedee. From that hour John took his mother to his own home.

Simple: Mary the Mother of Jesus is NEVER stated to have any other children. (The James, Joseph, Simon and Judas of Mt. 27 and Mk 15 are the sons of Mary of Cleophas, as the Scripture states.) If you have verses stating Mary's multiple subsequent pregnancies and thus can identify uterine siblings of Jesus, by all means please post them.


In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. There is NO scripture which identifies another as a son (or daughter) of Mary. Thus, any claim that Jesus had uterine siblings is one completely foreign to Scripture and the regula fidei of Christianity. Even the progenitors of Protestantism also affirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary.


Joseph and Mary's marriage was the most unique in all of human history. As such, it was ordered toward the heavenly kingdom, as opposed to an earthly and carnal one. Scripture demonstrates this with St. Luke's beautiful annunciation narrative, where Gabriel appears to Mary, who is already betrothed to Joseph. (Luke 1:27) Gabriel tells Mary that she will conceive and bear a son. Mary's question to Gabriel is, "How will this be"? (future tense - Luke 1:34)

Why would Mary ask how will it be that she will become pregnant - in the future - if she is already betrothed to Joseph? If you called your mother to tell her you just got engaged, and your mother said to you in excitement, "Congratulations. I am so happy for you and now I will finally be a grandmother!" Would it be logical to reply to her statement with, "How will this be?"

The reason for Mary's puzzlement to Gabriel is because her life was ordered toward something greater. Why did Mary, who was betrothed to Joseph, ask Gabriel how it will be (future tense) that she will have a child? It would be illogical to ask how it is you would have a child in the future if you were already betrothed, unless you were planning to live a conjugal life ordered not toward procreation, but toward heaven. Mary knew her conjugal life was not ordered toward procreation, but rather toward the Kingdom of God. Her marriage to Joseph would be the most unique marriage in the history of the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think you missed my point. Mary gave God a human nature and in so doing, that makes her anything but ordinary. The flesh Christ received, He received from His mother. The same flesh that He used to suffer and redeem man, He received from His mother.

Mary is extraordinary.


As for Jesus having a different nature than us, that is problematic. If Jesus did not have our exact human nature (which you label as "sin nature"), then whatever nature He had is what He redeemed. That means you and I and all other sons of Adam who have a "sin nature" are still not redeemed.

Heb 2:14 ---> "And since these children have a common inheritance of flesh and blood, he too shared that inheritance with them."

I can't agree with this as Mary was only the generational vessel God used in whom as being pure and holy unto God, God's Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in her womb. Mary is not to be put on a pedestal, worshipped, bowed down to and prayed to. This is part of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.

The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under Roman Catholicism doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.​

 

[Walpole]

I can't agree with this as Mary was only the generational vessel God used in whom as being pure and holy unto God, God's Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in her womb. Mary is not to be put on a pedestal, worshipped, bowed down to and prayed to. This is part of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.

The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under Roman Catholicism doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.​

Oy vey.

I thought you were interested in having an actual intellectual discussion. I didn't realize you were going down the Dan Brown road...


The non-sequitur / conspiracy theory stuff aside, I'll bow out of the discussion with one last post on Mary...

Mary was absolutely extraordinary. There are many types and figures of her in the Old Testament. These include Eve, Sara, Deborah, Judith and Esther. In addition, there are four principal prophesies of Mary in the Old Testament:

I. The protoevangelium of Genesis 3:15 (KJV) - "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

II. The Virgin Birth of Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

III. The woman whose son will be a ruler from Bethlehem in Micah 5:2-3 (KJV) - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."

IV. The God-man in the womb in Jeremiah 31:22 (KJV) - "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."


This demonstrates Mary was not an ordinary and random person, but rather extraordinary. She is faithful Israel personified.

 

[for_his_glory]

Simple: Mary the Mother of Jesus is NEVER stated to have any other children. (The James, Joseph, Simon and Judas of Mt. 27 and Mk 15 are the sons of Mary of Cleophas, as the Scripture states.) If you have verses stating Mary's multiple subsequent pregnancies and thus can identify uterine siblings of Jesus, by all means please post them.


In Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. There is NO scripture which identifies another as a son (or daughter) of Mary. Thus, any claim that Jesus had uterine siblings is one completely foreign to Scripture and the regula fidei of Christianity. Even the progenitors of Protestantism also affirmed the perpetual virginity of Mary.


Joseph and Mary's marriage was the most unique in all of human history. As such, it was ordered toward the heavenly kingdom, as opposed to an earthly and carnal one. Scripture demonstrates this with St. Luke's beautiful annunciation narrative, where Gabriel appears to Mary, who is already betrothed to Joseph. (Luke 1:27) Gabriel tells Mary that she will conceive and bear a son. Mary's question to Gabriel is, "How will this be"? (future tense - Luke 1:34)

Why would Mary ask how will it be that she will become pregnant - in the future - if she is already betrothed to Joseph? If you called your mother to tell her you just got engaged, and your mother said to you in excitement, "Congratulations. I am so happy for you and now I will finally be a grandmother!" Would it be logical to reply to her statement with, "How will this be?"

The reason for Mary's puzzlement to Gabriel is because her life was ordered toward something greater. Why did Mary, who was betrothed to Joseph, ask Gabriel how it will be (future tense) that she will have a child? It would be illogical to ask how it is you would have a child in the future if you were already betrothed, unless you were planning to live a conjugal life ordered not toward procreation, but toward heaven. Mary knew her conjugal life was not ordered toward procreation, but rather toward the Kingdom of God. Her marriage to Joseph would be the most unique marriage in the history of the world.

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

After the birth of Jesus Mary and Joseph had normal marital relations meaning Mary was no longer a virgin. I'm not going to get into the half brothers and sisters of Jesus as it is to involved and needs to be another thread and I have already given scriptures stating Mary and Joseph had other children.

I will give you to study Matthew 13:55-56, Mark 3:31-32; 6:3, Acts 1:13 and Galatians 1:19.

Also there are four James found in the Bible that you might want to look up.

 

[Bible]

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Mat 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

After the birth of Jesus Mary and Joseph had normal marital relations meaning Mary was no longer a virgin. I'm not going to get into the half brothers and sisters of Jesus as it is to involved and needs to be another thread and I have already given scriptures stating Mary and Joseph had other children.

I will give you to study Matthew 13:55-56, Mark 3:31-32; 6:3, Acts 1:13 and Galatians 1:19.

Also there are four James found in the Bible that you might want to look up.

It does not say they had normal sex or relation Lk 1:34 know not man (sex)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.



“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

 

[Bible]

These are large complicated subjects
One thing at a time please so everyone can easily follow

 

[for_his_glory]

Oy vey.

I thought you were interested in having an actual intellectual discussion. I didn't realize you were going down the Dan Brown road...


The non-sequitur / conspiracy theory stuff aside, I'll bow out of the discussion with one last post on Mary...

Mary was absolutely extraordinary. There are many types and figures of her in the Old Testament. These include Eve, Sara, Deborah, Judith and Esther. In addition, there are four principal prophesies of Mary in the Old Testament:

I. The protoevangelium of Genesis 3:15 (KJV) - "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

II. The Virgin Birth of Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

III. The woman whose son will be a ruler from Bethlehem in Micah 5:2-3 (KJV) - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel."

IV. The God-man in the womb in Jeremiah 31:22 (KJV) - "How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man."


This demonstrates Mary was not an ordinary and random person, but rather extraordinary. She is faithful Israel personified.

Thought we were trying to have an intellectual discussion using scripture. Don't know who Dan Brown is and I never said that Mary was not extraordinary as far as God using her because she was of the lineage of David from where the promised Messiah would come from as she being pure and being a virgin would be conceived of the Holy Spirit and give birth to the Christ child. God uses many of us even today for His purpose and for a season, but it does not make us special or to be lifted up on high like the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church teaches about Mary and her still being a virgin literally sitting on her own throne of grace in heaven. It just means we are His vessels he works through for His glory. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13.

God bless both of us as we seek truth

 

[Tessa]

Matthew 1:24,25

Tells us that Joseph took into himself his wife but did not know her until after her firstborn child was brought forth.

 

[Bible]

I can't agree with this as Mary was only the generational vessel God used in whom as being pure and holy unto God, God's Holy Spirit conceived Jesus in her womb. Mary is not to be put on a pedestal, worshipped, bowed down to and prayed to. This is part of the heresies of the Roman Catholic Church.

The chief tendency of the priesthood was to keep the gospels away from people and keep them under Roman Catholicism doctrine as being the full authority as the rule of life and belief.

The Papacy of the Roman Catholic Church has desecrated the ten commandments of God by changing the Sabbath to the first day of the week in support of Luciferians sun worship. The Pope claims to have inherited the title Pontifex Maximus (Pontiff) directly from Babylon. Another title is Vicarius Filii Dei meaning in the place of God as he calls himself the Holy Father and the only one who can forgive sin, Matthew 23:9. Rome’s catechism leaves out Gods second commandment as they worship many idols making various gods unto themselves as they bow down and worship them.

The Priesthood, catechism, the seven sacraments, praying to Mary, the stages of the cross, idol worshiping and the list goes on are all atrocities to God as the Roman Catholic Church takes on the form of Godliness, but denying the power thereof and turn away from God having corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith, 2 Timothy 3:1-9. The Papacy leads many into captivity whose names are not found in the Lamb’s book of life as they have no truth or understanding of Gods word. The success of the Roman Empire over the last two thousand years will be its demise in the end of days when God destroys their power as He sends it to the lake of fire forever as God establishes His Kingdom here on earth.​

the first commandment forbids worship to any but God alone, no worship of Mary or saints or any idols
Reverence and honor are not worship
Rom 13:7

 

[for_his_glory]

It does not say they had normal sex or relation Lk 1:34 know not man (sex)

Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples.

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.



“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (ancient writer)

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).

I didn't even mention Luke 1:34 and am not disputing that Mary was a virgin when the Holy Spirit came and conceived the Christ child in her.

Again what you post in scripture has nothing to do with what you believe.

Bible, why do you put Jesus to shame and desecrate His teachings over that of believing the heresies of the Catechism of the Roman Catholic doctrine you are indoctrinated in.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

[Bible]

I didn't even mention Luke 1:34 and am not disputing that Mary was a virgin when the Holy Spirit came and conceived the Christ child in her.

Again what you post in scripture has nothing to do with what you believe.

Bible, why do you put Jesus to shame and desecrate His teachings over that of believing the heresies of the Catechism of the Roman Catholic doctrine you are indoctrinated in.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Refers to the pagan Roman Empire conquered by Jesus Christ and his church that he founded on Peter and the apostles and their successors Matt 16:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Thanks for sharing
Mark

 

[Bible]

Immaculate Conception of Mary!
And the miraculous conception of Jesus, things plural! Lk 1:49

Perpetual Virginity! Isa 7:14, matt 1:21-23 One child singular

Assumption into heaven body and soul! Rev 12:1

Mother of God! Lk 1:43

 

[for_his_glory]

the first commandment forbids worship to any but God alone, no worship of Mary or saints or any idols
Reverence and honor are not worship
Rom 13:7

Then why does the Pope and all Catholics bow down to Mary and pray for her to intercede for them making her their idol in which many have an idol of her in their yards and in the Catholic church that breaks God's first commandment and also calling the Pope Holy Father which is another violation of God's commandment. Mary is not our mediator before the Father as she still lays in her grave waiting for the day when Christ returns and calls us from the grave.

You can't worship God through man made created things. Jesus Christ is eternal being fully God and fully man when He walked the earth. God has no mother.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

See, Mary was not there in the beginning and Mary is not the word.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.