My Top-10 personal favorite passages against OSAS

[John Zain]

I don’t wish to bore you with dozens of these passages, so I’ll just give you my Top-10!

Matt 6:14-15, Mark 11:25-26 • If you do not forgive those who have sinned against you,
or those whom you have something against, Father God will not forgive you of your sins.

1 Cor 15:1-2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) which was
preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
This reminds me of Jesus’ warning to first count the cost of being a disciple (Luke 14:26-33).

2 Cor 7:1,10 • Paul instructs the church on how to cleanse themselves from their sins,
and how to perfect their holiness: “godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation”.

Heb 3:12-19 • We have become partakers of Christ, if we continue to believe steadfast to the end. But, beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God by developing an evil heart of unbelief, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin … as did the OT Jews who departed from the living God through their sinning, disobedience, and rebellion. So they could not enter in. Instead, God left them strewn all over the desert floor.

Rom 11:21-22 • God displayed His severity with the OT Jews who fell … He did not spare them. But instead, He cut them off. He will do the same to you, if you do not continue
in His goodness.

Heb 6:4-8 • It is impossible for Christians who have fallen away to be renewed again to repentance. They have crucified the Son of God again, putting Him to an open shame
… their end is to be burned.

Heb 10:36-39 • The just shall live by faith, but if anyone draws back, they draw back to perdition. But, those who endure in continuing to believe, do so to the saving of their souls.

1 Pet 1:9 • Christians may receive the end of their faith—the salvation of their souls.
Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13 • But he who endures to the end will be saved ( eternally).

2 Pet 2:20-21 • If Christians are again entangled in sin and overcome by them,
the latter end for them is worse than it was before they were saved.

Rev 21:7-8 • ALL liars shall have their part in the lake of fire, which is the second death.
But He who overcomes (his sins, such as lying) shall inherit all things.

“He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” (Matt 11:5)

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” (Rev 2:11)

 

[Knotical]

And any savvy Calvinist worth their salt in debating could use these same passages in favor of OSAS (not that I am one of those people). What is your point?

 

[Danus]

Wow, 10 verses interpreted by people who can't believe in being saved. That is interesting. I know several atheist who also can't believe in salvation and they are able to do that with the whole bible, or no verses at all.

Why do you need 10? Wouldn't it be esier just to take that non belife one tiny step further and just walk away from that smidgen of faith? No since holding on to a small bit of faith your can easily loose it anyway.

 

[John Zain]

Wow, 10 verses interpreted by people who can't believe in being saved. That is interesting. I know several atheist who also can't believe in salvation and they are able to do that with the whole bible, or no verses at all.
Why do you need 10? Wouldn't it be esier just to take that non belife one tiny step further and just walk away from that smidgen of faith? No since holding on to a small bit of faith your can easily loose it anyway.

I'm not interpreting squat ... but I can read plain English.

I'm paraphrasing what the passages say, i.e. there isn't room to list them all.

Or, wouldest thou desire for me to do so?
I'd be happy to, but then people would need to be able to read and understand the words.
Shall we try?

 

[Guest]

Why do you post so many threads about this topic. Are you not growing in the spirit.

 

[jasoncran]

im not an oaser but let it rest. I don't recall that god telling the saved that they had to have a perfect understanding of armiminism to get to heaven.

 

[Danus]

Wow, 10 verses interpreted by people who can't believe in being saved. That is interesting. I know several atheist who also can't believe in salvation and they are able to do that with the whole bible, or no verses at all.
Why do you need 10? Wouldn't it be esier just to take that non belife one tiny step further and just walk away from that smidgen of faith? No since holding on to a small bit of faith your can easily loose it anyway.

I'm not interpreting squat ... but I can read plain English.

I'm paraphrasing what the passages say, i.e. there isn't room to list them all.

Or, wouldest thou desire for me to do so?
I'd be happy to, but then people would need to be able to read and understand the words.
Shall we try?

You've made it clear that you don't believe you can know your saved, and "IF" you are, you can loose it. People who believe they are saved and endure in Christ have been trying to encourage you and others in your relationship with Christ in saying you are saved if you are in Christ and that He will keep you, build you up, make you stronger, and you will endure brother. But, you keep wanting to tell those people that they are like you because you read it in the bible. That's how you interpret it.

Seems to me, you keep wanting to share rotten news that does not even exist for those who are saved, and those who know their salvation keep trying to share good news with you. ....so if you want to use this forum as your bully pulpit for NOT BEING SAVED by God, then OK. We used to have a bunch of atheist that would do that also. They also know they are not saved and can walk away, but at least they are honest about it.

My hope is that you, will not be like them and not walk away. My hope is that you can someday see the grace that God has to offer and know you are indeed saved, not by your own actions which can not save you, but by your faith in our true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Blessings to you John.

 

[Guest]

I don’t wish to bore you with dozens of these passages, so I’ll just give you my Top-10!

Matt 6:14-15, Mark 11:25-26 • If you do not forgive those who have sinned against you,
or those whom you have something against, Father God will not forgive you of your sins.

1 Cor 15:1-2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) which was
preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
This reminds me of Jesus’ warning to first count the cost of being a disciple (Luke 14:26-33).

2 Cor 7:1,10 • Paul instructs the church on how to cleanse themselves from their sins,
and how to perfect their holiness: “godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvationâ€.

Heb 3:12-19 • We have become partakers of Christ, if we continue to believe steadfast to the end. But, beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God by developing an evil heart of unbelief, hardened through the deceitfulness of sin … as did the OT Jews who departed from the living God through their sinning, disobedience, and rebellion. So they could not enter in. Instead, God left them strewn all over the desert floor.

Rom 11:21-22 • God displayed His severity with the OT Jews who fell … He did not spare them. But instead, He cut them off. He will do the same to you, if you do not continue
in His goodness.

Heb 6:4-8 • It is impossible for Christians who have fallen away to be renewed again to repentance. They have crucified the Son of God again, putting Him to an open shame
… their end is to be burned.

Heb 10:36-39 • The just shall live by faith, but if anyone draws back, they draw back to perdition. But, those who endure in continuing to believe, do so to the saving of their souls.

1 Pet 1:9 • Christians may receive the end of their faith—the salvation of their souls.
Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13 • But he who endures to the end will be saved ( eternally).

2 Pet 2:20-21 • If Christians are again entangled in sin and overcome by them,
the latter end for them is worse than it was before they were saved.

Rev 21:7-8 • ALL liars shall have their part in the lake of fire, which is the second death.
But He who overcomes (his sins, such as lying) shall inherit all things.

“He who has ears to hear, let him hear!†(Matt 11:5)

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.†(Rev 2:11)

1. This scripture is just stating a fact. It has nothing to do with losing salvation.
2. This scripture has nothing to do with losing salvation. Read 1 Cor 15:10. It is by HIS WORKS John. and HIS grace toward ME was not in vein.
3. No John, godly sorrow produces repentance leading to PURITY, not salvation. Once you're saved you're saved and that's it. Notice in 2 Cor 7:1 it says 'Since we have these PROMISES! What are the promises.
4. That's funny, ESV version says falling away. However, it says nothing about losing salvation. The OT Jews had not experienced the promises of the Holy Spirit because Jesus had not died on the cross yet. The promises of the Holy Spirit had not existed yet, rather the Holy Spirit in the OT was for TESTING only.
5. I noticed that you skipped Romans 11:20. He's talking about apostates that have revealed their unbelief. Notice it says YOU STAND FAST THROUGH FAITH. I believe either Romans 11 is talking about either apostates who were never saved OR lack of anointing. Notice Romans 11:16-17. Notice it says if the root is HOLY so are the branches and NOURISHING root of the olive tree. Cut off means either they were apostates to begin with or it means cut off from anointing. It says nothing about losing salvation.
6. LOL, the title of Heb 5:11 is Warning Against APOSTASY.
7. LOL, the title of Heb 10:19 is The Full Assurance of Faith. What does FULL ASSURANCE mean to you John.
8. Uhh I see you skipped over 1 Peter 1:3-5. WOW.
9. This has nothing to do with losing salvation.
10. LOL, the title of 2 Peter 2:1 is FALSE Prophets and Teachers.
11. This one is ironic since you're lying to everyone on the forum that OSAS is false. If I were you, I would be fearing the lake of fire right about now.
12. How does this have anything to do with losing salvation. All this is, is stating a fact.
13. Notice Rev 2:11 says the one who conquers. John, when you accept Christ into your heart, you have already conquered your flesh and now walk in the spirit.

All I see is an internet bully here. Blessings, Urk.

 

[John Zain]

My hope is that you can someday see the grace that God has to offer and know you are indeed saved, not by your own actions which can not save you, but by your faith in our true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Seems to me that you do not understand that all I am doing is
showing that the NT warns about people walking away from the faith,
and/or not walking in the Spirit, not being properly sanctified unto holiness, etc.

See what I mean about people not understanding what they're reading?

And this is a result of the gospel being preached today is a garbage one,
i.e. easy-believism, cheap grace, and etc. This is not the gospel at all.

Seems you do not understand that I'm preaching against a false gospel.

 

[reba]

My hope is that you can someday see the grace that God has to offer and know you are indeed saved, not by your own actions which can not save you, but by your faith in our true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Seems to me that you do not understand that all I am doing is
showing that the NT warns about people walking away from the faith,
and/or not walking in the Spirit, not being properly sanctified unto holiness, etc.

See what I mean about people not understanding what they're reading?

And this is a result of the gospel being preached today is a garbage one,
i.e. easy-believism, cheap grace, and etc. This is not the gospel at all.

Seems you do not understand that I'm preaching against a false gospel.

There are many different opinions around these forums... Please learn to convey your thoughts with out the rudeness. The next remark I consider rude will result in an infraction.... We all have the right to our opinions and to discuss them with others ... What we do not have is the justification for such rudeness. Moderator

 

[Atonement]

No kidding, clam down just a little John.

If someone disagrees with your position, that's fine, but there is others ways to get your point across with out being so inconsiderate to the opinions of others. They have a right to their beliefs as well.

Just mellow out a little - things are okay brother

totopic

 

[Eugene]

Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13 • But he who endures to the end will be saved ( eternally).

In the sense you're seemingly applying this scripture, is there even one other than Jesus who has endured, or will endure to the end? When is this end in your opinion? Thanks.

 

[Pizzaguy]

My hope is that you can someday see the grace that God has to offer and know you are indeed saved, not by your own actions which can not save you, but by your faith in our true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Seems to me that you do not understand that all I am doing is
showing that the NT warns about people walking away from the faith,
and/or not walking in the Spirit, not being properly sanctified unto holiness, etc.

I'm quite the OSAS person, but even I would agree that walking away from the faith is pretty dangerous.

But I think you are almost saying that works equals salvation. But Christ said that all who come to Him are saved, and that He is the only way.
It can't be both ways, and I KNOW I was saved simply by praying and asking Christ to come into my heart and life. I could never achieve salvation on my own, and I can't KEEP salvation on my own - it is a gift.

 

[Danus]

My hope is that you can someday see the grace that God has to offer and know you are indeed saved, not by your own actions which can not save you, but by your faith in our true Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Seems to me that you do not understand that all I am doing is
showing that the NT warns about people walking away from the faith,
and/or not walking in the Spirit, not being properly sanctified unto holiness, etc.

See what I mean about people not understanding what they're reading?

And this is a result of the gospel being preached today is a garbage one,
i.e. easy-believism, cheap grace, and etc. This is not the gospel at all.

Seems you do not understand that I'm preaching against a false gospel.

So you're connecting people who are not saved with the gospel being preached "today", which you recognize as OSAS? But, you say also that you can't know you're saved and you could loose what you don't know you have any any time? That's not the gospel.

The gospel, in a nutshell, is that God humbled himself as a man, and came here in the simplest way to be with mankind. He came here to do something no man can do, to fulfill the law required to be righteous, and to offer Himself as a perfect sacrifice for those who believe and place their trust in Him by faith, and so that through this his perfect righteousness may be imputed to those who do place their faith in Him so that they may be saved from His wrath for their unrighteousness. By this they are counted righteous, and by this they too grow in their faith every day. They are made more and more like Him, and some day they too will be with Him, and they will then be perfectly righteous, but not before and not by anything they do. Not only does He promise this, but He also says we can know this, and that we can not fall from His grasp in this. Now we may be able to walk away from the offer, but not the deal.

Seems like your stuck on the offer for salvation, which clearly one can walk away from. Many do. But don't confuse those who are being made like Christ in their salvation with those who've yet to know Christ, only about Him. That is a serious mistake in your theology, and one I would urge you to examine closer to make sure you are in fact not just entertaining God offer, but rather have made a commitment to it first before you go accusing others of not being what they know they are. Especially when they are encouraging you. The fact is once a person has accepted the offer of salvation they are saved to the end. they endure to the end. So in this sense, Once a person is saved, (not just introduced to the idea, but converted) they are redeemed, and they will not loose that, but grow in it to the end. That is why they are so bold about it. They know more and more. They are made aware more and more. They have the strength of the spirit, the ability of the spirit, and the endurance of the spirit, and NO ONE, or teaching, can "SNATCH" them from His had. Not even you.

You're warning the wrong people. You're blaming the wrong thing and you're preaching to the wrong crowed brother. People who are saved don't go around worried about loosing what they have and that has been promised to them. The reason they don't is because they have faith and trust in it. Because of this they invest that faith. They know it will return again and again. It will compound, and they will receive more and more faith for the faith they invest.

None of these verse you quoted speak to the saved loosing or walking away from the deal they have already committed to, which is what OSAS means. These verse you have quoted are about the UNSAVED loosing or walking away from the offer of salvation.

 

[Guest]

Blessings.

 

[John Zain]

If a Christian chooses to walk or run back to their old lifestyle of sin and stay there,
they cannot lose their salvation because of this sin, rebellion, disobedience, etc.
I.E. The new covenant is not a covenant at all ... it cannot be broken by either party!

 

[Guest]

If a Christian chooses to walk or run back to their old lifestyle of sin and stay there,

If a Christian chooses to walk or run back to their old lifestyle of sin and stay there? Why would they stay there? Do you know what an apostate is? Did you even listen to what Danus said.

 

[Matthew G]

John,

I'm not an OSASer either. I'm also not one who thinks you can wake up with your salvation, lose it by 9am, get it back after lunch, lose it again at 5:47pm, and get it back again by bedtime. That's just ridiculous.

But I think you're going about this the wrong way, my friend. You have quoted a few verses that don't pertain to OSAS at all. Perhaps you should step back and pray about it, and spend a little more time in study?

Not making the best impression in this thread. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Eugene]

So you're connecting people who are not saved with the gospel being preached "today", which you recognize as OSAS? But, you say also that you can't know you're saved and you could loose what you don't know you have any any time? That's not the gospel.

i absolutely love this, and really hope you don't mind me using something similar to this in my future replies. ;)

 

[Guest]

John,

I'm also not one who thinks you can wake up with your salvation, lose it by 9am, get it back after lunch, lose it again at 5:47pm, and get it back again by bedtime. That's just ridiculous.

Wow, good point.