Name the Blab and grab the take it. Amazing Word Of Faith message!

[Free]

Could you point out in my post something not scriptural? Of course that means you would have to actually read both post, God forbid.

I read your posts and it changes nothing of what I have said. it would seem you didn't actually read my first post, since it more or less agrees with you.

 

[Free]

I read through the entire thread again, because I thought that I missed your post where you have shown the WOF doctrine to be unbiblical.

There is no such post.

I never said there was such a post.

You have only stated an opinion, with no scripture.

On the other hand, Brother Mike uses scripture in his OP to validate what he believes is the truth.

I was addressing only those four statements. There is no biblical support for the ideas that God wants us to be rich, that we are little gods (blasphemy), that God wants us healed (in this life anyway) and especially "no faith, no healing," or that we can have whatever we say.

However, the doctrine is based on biblical truth.

Mark 11:23 says you can have what so ever you say.

That is the foundational scripture.

The doctrine is based on a grain of truth and verses such as Mark 11:23 must be taken in context with the rest of Scripture. To take such verses and build doctrine around them as though they say all there is about a matter, is a very poor way of going about theology.

 

[Brother Mike]

I never said there was such a post.


I was addressing only those four statements. There is no biblical support for the ideas that God wants us to be rich, that we are little gods (blasphemy), that God wants us healed (in this life anyway) and especially "no faith, no healing," or that we can have whatever we say.


The doctrine is based on a grain of truth and verses such as Mark 11:23 must be taken in context with the rest of Scripture. To take such verses and build doctrine around them as though they say all there is about a matter, is a very poor way of going about theology.

OK Free, break Down what Jesus said, You shall have Whatsoever you say.

That is not "JUST" a grain of truth, Jesus said that. It's true, and Jesus was even saying speak to a mountain, in fact He said this mountain, so he is looking at a mountain as an example on how powerful it is in what He is teaching.

This came off the example from Him speaking to a tree, the tree obeyed him, then He goes on to say Whosoever will say.

So break it down, I can't wait to hear this.

 

[Brother Mike]

The power of the spoken Word​

It's glad to get these things on video. I had to do the same thing stuck on I-20 coming out of Atlanta with a tornado crossing the interstate in front of us. In my case the Tornado just vanished, and the Hail and crazy wind stopped immediately. Knowing these principles can save your life.

Not as much faith, but the name of Jesus still fixes the issue.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I debated 4 elders in my church .
I had sound doctrine on my side and I challenged them to provide sound doctrine to back up what they were believing but they could not.
It almost got ugly on their part, but we broke up for the day.

That's how it usually works with church leadership when you start challenging what they say. I understand, though. They're in a position where they're expected to know it all, and if they don't then their position in the church would be suspect. Not true at all, but that's how we all seem to perceive leadership in the church.

I had the privilege of having a pastor who didn't have to know it all. He had my complete and total love and respect. I learned a lot from him despite him not knowing it all. Leadership is a lot more than just having all the facts. The calling to leadership means much more than just having knowledge. The church probably won't ever fully understand this....despite it's abundance of leaders who know it all.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.

Don't get in the way of a body of believers calling on the name of Jesus.
I would have liked to attend the praise and worship service after that episode.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They didn't know it, but they could have turned around and pleaded for mercy in the same Spirit of faith for those in the path of the tornado behind them. In fact, if one's faith is not leading them into that kind of faith filled intercession you're not where God is ultimately taking you, IMO.

 

[Free]

OK Free, break Down what Jesus said, You shall have Whatsoever you say.

That is not "JUST" a grain of truth, Jesus said that. It's true, and Jesus was even saying speak to a mountain, in fact He said this mountain, so he is looking at a mountain as an example on how powerful it is in what He is teaching.

This came off the example from Him speaking to a tree, the tree obeyed him, then He goes on to say Whosoever will say.

So break it down, I can't wait to hear this.

This isn't about "breaking down" anything; it's about the greater context of Scripture. This is precisely the problem with WoF--they take a verse, or several verses that say the same thing, but either ignore the immediate context and/or the context of the entirety of Scripture.

When we ask, we must be submitted to God's will and therefore be asking with right motives:

Jas 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. (ESV)

We must pray as Jesus prayed:

Mar 14:36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." (ESV)

And that is precisely what we see with Paul:

2Co 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
2Co 12:8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me.
2Co 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Co 12:10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (ESV)

WoF would have us believe that God wanted Paul healed but Paul lacked faith. But we have a clear example that God does not necessarily want us healed in this life and that we don't always get what we ask because it is dependent on God's will.

Php 4:12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. (ESV)

Did Paul lack faith that at points so that he had to suffer hunger and need? Why wasn't he rich? Why didn't he have plenty all the time, so that he could bless others all the time?

Let's consider something else Jesus said:

Joh 16:33 I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world." (ESV)

We see this in Acts:

Act 14:21 When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,
Act 14:22 strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.

And Hebrews:

Heb 11:36 Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated--
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy--wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. (ESV)

Do you think these in Hebrews didn't pray and ask God to keep from being killed? Do you think they wanted to wander "about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth"?

And very importantly:

1Ti 6:6 Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment,
1Ti 6:7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.
1Ti 6:8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
1Ti 6:11 But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness. (ESV)

Interesting how the very thing that Paul tells Timothy to flee one of the very things WoF teachers tell us to pursue.

As I stated before, WoF uses grains of truth but by taking them out of context, create doctrines that are entirely unbiblical. Nowhere are we promised riches--we are told to not pursue them; nowhere are we said to be little gods--that is blasphemy; nowhere are we told God wants us healed--he uses are infirmities and weaknesses for his purposes, which also means that it is not necessarily a lack of faith when someone isn't healed; to get whatever we ask, it must be asked within God's will for us.

WoF is nothing more than the "Christianizing of the American dream," as one musician has put it.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here is some more truth.

32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.
34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold,
35 and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
Acts 4:32-35


In order to be able to give lands or houses, or the money from the sale of lands or houses, one must first HAVE POSSESSION of said lands or houses to sell.

The First Church Community, and on going Revival was not funded by broke people.


JLB

It seems that these people did not receive their riches after they were saved but rather, they gave it all away after they got saved.
While I'm talking, I wonder about a verse.
2 Timothy 4:20;
"Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus".
First off, why was this verse put in the Bible?
Why did Paul say it?
Why was Miletus, who walked and served with Paul, left behind sick?
I can't figure that out.

 

[JLB]

It seems that these people did not receive their riches after they were saved but rather, they gave it all away after they got saved.

Brother, who received the proceeds from the sale of the lands and houses, in these verses?

Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. Acts 4:34-35

The Apostles received all the money from everyone, after they were saved.

The Apostles didn't go and buy for themselves rich homes or chariots, or fine things...

The Apostles distributed the riches to each person as had need.

God was not against these Church leaders receiving wealth, He did expect them to steward this wealth properly.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Why was Miletus, who walked and served with Paul, left behind sick?
I can't figure that out.

When you do, be sure to let us all know.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Don't get in the way of a body of believers calling on the name of Jesus.
I would have liked to attend the praise and worship service after that episode.

Well, there were lots of them, so I should not have said "not as much faith" the thing vanished. One time in the name of Jesus, and that is it, done deal. One thing I found interesting is that some of them where speaking in tongues, and it sounds exactly like what I hear others speak, though they be countries apart. They also have their own language, and they speak English. So, I should not have said, Not as much faith, but some of them were hoping the Tornado would go, but a few seem to know.
I am sure it would be awesome to attend one of their services.

They didn't know it, but they could have turned around and pleaded for mercy in the same Spirit of faith for those in the path of the tornado behind them. In fact, if one's faith is not leading them into that kind of faith filled intercession you're not where God is ultimately taking you, IMO.

I have heard that comment before about this Video (What about everyone else). I seen other video's of this town, and that tornado did tons of damage. Why not protect everyone else? Things don't really work that way. If they did, we could pray and protect whole countries right now, if there is power to stop a tornado, then there has to be power to do much more if things worked like that.

Being human, my faith only goes to so many things. That is why I take prayer seriously, and just don't jump on the band wagon when someone asks for prayer. Also, the same protection Jeff had in the name of Jesus, is available to everyone else. When I pray, it's with a person that I have set interest in, and expect what I pray with them to change. Just pray for me Brother Mike, is not good enough, but if the Holy Spirit prompts me to pray for someone, then I do.

Is it our fault 5 of the virgins did not have oil in the lamp? We have our oil, and the others could have just as easy gotten some for their lamps.

My Tornado situation was different:
In my situation, I was in my Semi Truck, coming out of Atlanta, the wind kicked up and large hail started to come down. I also noticed a few lighter semi's on their sides off the road. Soon I had to slow down, and had a hard time steering, it got real dark and I did not want the large hail coming through my window. I clicked on the CB as i saw a line of trucks just parked off the interstate 20 and pulled in behind them.

A Tornado spotted and coming down the interstate. My truck was shaking violently. So, I figure I would have to wait until it passed through us to continue on.

To pass the time, I called the wife, to see what was up. It was then I heard on the CB other truck drivers saying My God, My God, it's going to hit us, it's crossing on the interstate. I could not see a thing for the truck in front of me, but the wind was crazy.

Then I heard another truck driver crying, saying he was going to try to call home and say goodbye just in case.

My first thought was what was a grown man, a trucker crying for. Grow a pair buddy, no faith.

Jethro, at that thought, it was like a warm love feeling, amazing compassion, hard to explain wash all over my body. It was so powerful I started to cry because of how those truckers where feeling. I told the wife I have to go, and take care of something.

At this point Jethro, I believe God got my attention for the lives of those other drivers. It's hard to describe the love, amazing, more so impactful than some tornado.

I said, "Listen up Tornado, in the name of Jesus, you will miss every single truck in front of me, and behind me. You shall not hurt one driver, or damage one truck."

BAM, all stop, shocked me. The hail, the rain, the wind, and no tornado.

Drivers where saying, it just vanished, it was right in front of us, gone.

I am convinced that when we have God's love for someone, then greater is the power of faith, and help. Just saying things that sound like faith, with no real Love, is faith that does not work. I am convinced that Love is the real key to victory, and explains why Jeff's house was spared and others where not. It has to be something God puts in us.

blessings.

 

[Brother Mike]

It seems that these people did not receive their riches after they were saved but rather, they gave it all away after they got saved.
While I'm talking, I wonder about a verse.
2 Timothy 4:20;
"Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus".
First off, why was this verse put in the Bible?
Why did Paul say it?
Why was Miletus, who walked and served with Paul, left behind sick?
I can't figure that out.

Miletus did not do a lot of walking, it was a city in Modern day Turkey. Trophimus, Paul left sick. If your sick, then you need to stay and rest somewhere, would be a good reason to stay behind.

And nobody lacked anything in the NT church.

We must pray as Jesus prayed:

Mar 14:36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." (ESV)

We will go One at a time and see if you can follow here. Not all your post is way off, but understanding the Word with Logic of men, and no faith, will get you nowhere but stuck in powerless religion.

What is the "Context" of Jesus prayer? Jesus is not having a healing meeting, what is the situation?

Jesus is about to go to the cross.
Jesus does not want to go to the cross.
Jesus ask the Father if there is another way, I am all ears (Take this cup from me) if you will.
Jesus then says, Not my will though, but your will. Unless you change this for me, I am doing what I know I have to do.

Is Jesus confused about the Will of God, though He is asking that will to be changed? NO
Did Jesus say pray this way for all things? NO
Would we use this prayer if we don't know if it's God's will to heal us. NO.
Jesus knew the will of God, and that is twisting scripture out of context. Something you claim you don't do. We know different though.

So, if you knew God wanted you to do something or go somewhere you did not want to go. Then you could use this prayer, Just as Jesus did.

Healing Be Thy will prayer. Scripture in it's correct context.

While he was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."
(Luk 5:12)
And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately the leprosy left him.
(Luk 5:13)

This is the correct example of a be thy will prayer for healing. Lord, if it be your will........... What Jesus say, "I WILL"

I can see why you have issues with the healing doctrines, you don't know where the scriptures are at, but now you know the Lord's will if someone asks Him if it's will to heal.

Unless you think Jesus changes, or is a respecter of persons. In which case there is not much hope, as you have nothing solid or stable to believe in.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Miletus did not do a lot of walking, it was a city in Modern day Turkey. Trophimus, Paul left sick. If your sick, then you need to stay and rest somewhere, would be a good reason to stay behind.

And nobody lacked anything in the NT church.


We will go One at a time and see if you can follow here. Not all your post is way off, but understanding the Word with Logic of men, and no faith, will get you nowhere but stuck in powerless religion.

What is the "Context" of Jesus prayer? Jesus is not having a healing meeting, what is the situation?

Jesus is about to go to the cross.
Jesus does not want to go to the cross.
Jesus ask the Father if there is another way, I am all ears (Take this cup from me) if you will.
Jesus then says, Not my will though, but your will. Unless you change this for me, I am doing what I know I have to do.

Is Jesus confused about the Will of God, though He is asking that will to be changed? NO
Did Jesus say pray this way for all things? NO
Would we use this prayer if we don't know if it's God's will to heal us. NO.
Jesus knew the will of God, and that is twisting scripture out of context. Something you claim you don't do. We know different though.

So, if you knew God wanted you to do something or go somewhere you did not want to go. Then you could use this prayer, Just as Jesus did.

Healing Be Thy will prayer. Scripture in it's correct context.

While he was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."
(Luk 5:12)
And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately the leprosy left him.
(Luk 5:13)

This is the correct example of a be thy will prayer for healing. Lord, if it be your will........... What Jesus say, "I WILL"

I can see why you have issues with the healing doctrines, you don't know where the scriptures are at, but now you know the Lord's will if someone asks Him if it's will to heal.

Unless you think Jesus changes, or is a respecter of persons. In which case there is not much hope, as you have nothing solid or stable to believe in.

Brother Mike, are you missing my point?
Why would the Spirit of God inspire Paul to mention that Miletus was left behind sick?
What is that message suppose to mean to us?
Could he be pointing out that not everyone gets healed all the time?

 

[Free]

We will go One at a time and see if you can follow here. Not all your post is way off, but understanding the Word with Logic of men, and no faith, will get you nowhere but stuck in powerless religion.

The "logic of men". That explains a lot. Logic and reason are from God. Of course, when it shows the error of one's position, it is much easier to just dismiss it by calling it the logic of men. And, please, do not presume that I have no faith.

As an aside, one of the very reasons the world is in the state it is and why countries have accepted gay marriage and abortion, is because they have abandoned reason.

What is the "Context" of Jesus prayer? Jesus is not having a healing meeting, what is the situation?

Jesus is about to go to the cross.
Jesus does not want to go to the cross.
Jesus ask the Father if there is another way, I am all ears (Take this cup from me) if you will.
Jesus then says, Not my will though, but your will. Unless you change this for me, I am doing what I know I have to do.

Is Jesus confused about the Will of God, though He is asking that will to be changed? NO
Did Jesus say pray this way for all things? NO
Would we use this prayer if we don't know if it's God's will to heal us. NO.
Jesus knew the will of God, and that is twisting scripture out of context. Something you claim you don't do. We know different though.

So, if you knew God wanted you to do something or go somewhere you did not want to go. Then you could use this prayer, Just as Jesus did.

The context is irrelevant to understanding that we need to ask for things as God according to God's will. Would you prefer I used the Lord's Prayer--"thy will be done"? That supports Jesus' asking God's will to be done as a general rule, and not just for specific circumstances. Of course you are presuming that it is God's will to heal everyone and therefore there is no need to even consider God's will in praying for healing.

God is not our servant whom we can command things from. He is sovereign and everything we ask must be according to his will, and it is not his will that everyone be healed in this life.

Healing Be Thy will prayer. Scripture in it's correct context.

While he was in one of the cities, there came a man full of leprosy. And when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and begged him, "Lord, if you will, you can make me clean."
(Luk 5:12)
And Jesus stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, "I will; be clean." And immediately the leprosy left him.
(Luk 5:13)

This is the correct example of a be thy will prayer for healing. Lord, if it be your will........... What Jesus say, "I WILL"

Of course that is an example and Jesus was willing, but it would be error to conclude then that God will heal all people in this life. Jesus performed miracles to attest to who he was--that he was the Messiah.

I can see why you have issues with the healing doctrines, you don't know where the scriptures are at, but now you know the Lord's will if someone asks Him if it's will to heal.

You clearly don't know what you think you know. You presume far too much--I have no issue with healing doctrines and I know very well "where the Scriptures are at." My only point is that WoF is very wrong concerning such doctrines--it simply is not God's will that all be healed in this life; that is not supported by Scripture.

Unless you think Jesus changes, or is a respecter of persons. In which case there is not much hope, as you have nothing solid or stable to believe in.

I find it interesting that you didn't address the fact that God would not heal Paul, and that you missed the point made by Rollo regarding Trophimus.

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike, are you missing my point?
Why would the Spirit of God inspire Paul to mention that Miletus was left behind sick?
What is that message suppose to mean to us?
Could he be pointing out that not everyone gets healed all the time?

Once again, Miletus is a city!!! but I see you point. It was trophy who was left sick.

First, not everyone gets saved. How people just believe that Jesus is Lord, go up and accept him, is how everything else works. No doubting, and just believe what the Word says.

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

The same way we receive Christ Jesus, is the same way we also walk in him and receive from him. Same exact principle.

However, not everyone Receives Jesus, Not everyone is healed,

Also, Not everyone is healed instantly. Most miracle healing I have seen has not been instant. This is by standing on the Word. I have seen instant, but that normally takes the Gift of Healing through the Power of the Holy Spirit, as the Spirit wills and directs. The Word is health to all our flesh to.

Mar_16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Noticed Jesus did not say they shall be healed, He said they shall recover.

Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Notice there is nothing that denotes instant here. Raised up, could me get better over time, and Save the sick, does not say healed instantly.

Since we have two scripture witnesses that denote more a recovery, then we know it's God's will to heal.

We don't know if Trophimus was healed, or not healed. I am sure Paul would have mentioned it if Trophimus had died, or did not get better. Being left sick though, would be just common sense if someone could not keep going until they were better.

God wants us to trust in Him, and to be honest, if everything was handed to us on a plate instantly, then God becomes more of a vending machine we just put the right amount of money in, or say the right words and Shazam, all done.

Blessings.

 

[Free]

Brother Mike, are you missing my point?
Why would the Spirit of God inspire Paul to mention that Miletus was left behind sick?
What is that message suppose to mean to us?
Could he be pointing out that not everyone gets healed all the time?

WoF must acknowledge that either Trophimus didn't have enough faith or that God does not heal everyone in this life. I find the first option rather absurd considering he was with Paul and he must have seen all sorts of miracles take place.

 

[Brother Mike]

The "logic of men". That explains a lot. Logic and reason are from God. Of course, when it shows the error of one's position, it is much easier to just dismiss it by calling it the logic of men. And, please, do not presume that I have no faith.

As an aside, one of the very reasons the world is in the state it is and why countries have accepted gay marriage and abortion, is because they have abandoned reason.


The context is irrelevant to understanding that we need to ask for things as God according to God's will. Would you prefer I used the Lord's Prayer--"thy will be done"? That supports Jesus' asking God's will to be done as a general rule, and not just for specific circumstances. Of course you are presuming that it is God's will to heal everyone and therefore there is no need to even consider God's will in praying for healing.

God is not our servant whom we can command things from. He is sovereign and everything we ask must be according to his will, and it is not his will that everyone be healed in this life.


Of course that is an example and Jesus was willing, but it would be error to conclude then that God will heal all people in this life. Jesus performed miracles to attest to who he was--that he was the Messiah.


You clearly don't know what you think you know. You presume far too much--I have no issue with healing doctrines and I know very well "where the Scriptures are at." My only point is that WoF is very wrong concerning such doctrines--it simply is not God's will that all be healed in this life; that is not supported by Scripture.


I find it interesting that you didn't address the fact that God would not heal Paul, and that you missed the point made by Rollo regarding Miletus.

Did Jesus ever stop being Messiah? Messiah means anointed one. NO, in fact he said it better he leave to send the anointing to us, the Holy Spirit.

Did Jesus ever change his will on healing........ Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.......... God have two different wills, one for earth and one for Heaven? Any sick folk in Heaven?

Is it supported in Scripture that all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?
Do all come to the knowledge of the truth?
Is Faith in one thing any different than faith in another?

I gave you a be thy will prayer someone asked Jesus about healing. There is nothing in scripture that says he healed Just to prove He was the Messiah. What he said is that if you don't believe my words, at least believe for the Works sake.

Jesus also said, your faith made you whole. Is that type of faith not around anymore?

I'll get to Paul, in a bit, but your reading that wrong also. Read it using faith, has Jesus ever turned anyone down for healing? NO, so would Jesus turn Paul down? NO.

God is not our servant whom we can command things from. He is sovereign and everything we ask must be according to his will, and it is not his will that everyone be healed in this life.

So, Jesus demonstrated his will to heal on Earth, He even said it's according to what we believe. I showed you his answer from a man who asked if it was His will to heal. That scripture is hand picked by the Holy Spirit for a reason, most of what Jesus did is not even recorded.

So despite there being lots of evidence in scripture, you still don't know God's will. You have to ask him His will first? Is that correct?

So if I want to steal something, I should ask for his will first. If I want to commit adultery I have to ask the Lords will first.

How many Pastors have you heard pray, "Lord, if it be thy will save them, else give them comfort in hell." ?

Paul coming up.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Once again, Miletus is a city!!! but I see you point. It was trophy who was left sick.

First, not everyone gets saved. How people just believe that Jesus is Lord, go up and accept him, is how everything else works. No doubting, and just believe what the Word says.

Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

The same way we receive Christ Jesus, is the same way we also walk in him and receive from him. Same exact principle.

However, not everyone Receives Jesus, Not everyone is healed,

Also, Not everyone is healed instantly. Most miracle healing I have seen has not been instant. This is by standing on the Word. I have seen instant, but that normally takes the Gift of Healing through the Power of the Holy Spirit, as the Spirit wills and directs. The Word is health to all our flesh to.

Mar_16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Noticed Jesus did not say they shall be healed, He said they shall recover.

Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Notice there is nothing that denotes instant here. Raised up, could me get better over time, and Save the sick, does not say healed instantly.

Since we have two scripture witnesses that denote more a recovery, then we know it's God's will to heal.

We don't know if Trophimus was healed, or not healed. I am sure Paul would have mentioned it if Trophimus had died, or did not get better. Being left sick though, would be just common sense if someone could not keep going until they were better.

God wants us to trust in Him, and to be honest, if everything was handed to us on a plate instantly, then God becomes more of a vending machine we just put the right amount of money in, or say the right words and Shazam, all done.

Blessings.

You might be right about Trophi, and I like your use of Mark 16:18.
But I need more to understand your reasoning.

 

[Brother Mike]

You might be right about Trophi, and I like your use of Mark 16:18.
But I need more to understand your reasoning.

OK, there is the Word of God. In the Word contain all the promises of God, even scripture that tells us we can have eternal life. The Word is the authority that governs the whole universe, for all things are upheld by the Word of His power.

In that Word that God spoke, it never returns void, and Jesus said what measure you mete to the Word, it is measured back to you (Mark 4)

So we have the Word, and in the Word we find the will of God. All scripture is for reproof and doctrine, all scripture given to man. God is not a respecter of persons, and the Word was not just sent to a select few.

In that Word God spoke, is God, is God's will.

Psa_103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Jas_5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

We have two scripture witness that God will forgive, and God will Heal. To say it's not God's will to Heal, is to say it's not God's will to also forgive.

So, by the Word, I have shown one example of many that it's God's will we be healed. Once we find God's will, then we can pray according to his will and know that God hears us, having confidence.

The Word of God itself is life, is alive, light, health.
For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.
(Pro 4:22)


They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mar 16:18)
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
(Mar 16:20)

So, we laying hands on the sick, the Lord worked with them, and confirmed His own Word we acted on as being true. The Word working, and God keeping his Word does not always denote instant healing, but a recovery.

We also have 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit.
One of those gifts is healing.
These gifts are given as the Spirit wills. (1 Cor 12:11)

So, the power of the Holy Spirit operating in a ministry setting, normally means instant healing, and we see Jesus operate in this gift. The gift is on a man as the Spirit wills though. We trust God's word for Healing, in what the Word says. The Holy Spirit and Word work the same, and together, but the specific Healing gift you see instant healing is normally when this Gift is given for someone to operate.
(The gift does not stay on the person, it comes on a person. We just don't use it when we want.)

Even Jesus did not get someone Healed the first time through: He had to get more direction.
And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
(Mar 8:23-24)
Here Jesus spit in someone eye, and put his hands on him. The man recived sight, but it was all blurry. Jesus asked what the man saw, and lucky for the man, Jesus did not say, "Well, it's better than what you had."

After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
(Mar 8:23-25)

So, we can see it's God's will to heal, that don't mean instant always, don't mean it has to be through the gift of healing by the Holy Spirit, and it might be God helping us recover fully from something.