Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • We stand with Ukraine. Please consider supporting Ukraine through a qualified organization.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Naomi Wolf: Baby Deaths Skyrocketing Among Vaccinated Mothers

Runner

 
Supporter
From
The Wild West
Gender
Male
Messages
198
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
OK, here's the sort of thing that has me questioning ...

I'm very familiar with the Republic of Belarus. Been there a number of times. Compared to the U.S., car ownership is rare. Transportation is typically by bus and train, and they are packed. The climate is ghastly - cold and wet. The socialized healthcare system is primitive by U.S. standards - I fortunately haven't had to use it, but I've seen it up close. To miss more than 3 days of work, you have to be certified by a doctor every 3 days; if that means standing in line at a clinic for 4 hours, too bad for you. No one who can afford private healthcare uses the socialized system, but the vast majority of people have to. Alcoholism is epidemic.

We have numerous relatives and friends in Belarus, so I think we have a pretty good grasp on the reality.

COVID statistics, pretty much up to the minute:
  • The United States has 35 times the population of Belarus - 329,500,000 to 9,399,000

  • The United States has 89 times the COVID infections - 87,301,331 to 982,867

  • The United States has 146 times the COVID deaths - 1,018,186 to 6,978
Just in case Belarus is some weird outlier, let's take India:
  • India has 4.3 times the population of the United States - 1,407,088,008 to 329,500,000

  • India has almost exactly 1/2 the COVID infections - 43,518,564 to 87,301,331

  • India has just slightly more than 1/2 the COVID deaths - 1,018,186 to 525,223
 

Free

Member
From
AB, Canada
Gender
Male
Messages
14,493
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Is it possible Phase 2 of the experiment is just around the corner?
No, because it most likely isn't an experiment. Will we get another wave? Quite likely.

I was in my local vet's office, a local auto glass repair shop and a local health clinic last week, and COVID hysteria seemed to be in full swing. Our doctor told us to take off the silly masks and said he had tried unsuccessfully to convince management the masks were medically pointless.
Except that masks do work; mostly in protecting others from oneself. There are a number of doctors that are either misinformed or, as social media continues to point out, base their arguments on ideology and politics, not science. My stepdad's doctor planted the initial doubt in my stepdad's head two years ago by saying he didn't know of anyone who had had COVID. My stepdad continued down that road, believing all the misinformation and disinformation about the mandates and vaccines, despite being a retired pharmacist. He died in hospital from COVID in January, and it was statistically preventable.

But how many diseases is this and has this been true of, without 1/100th of the hysteria? How many stores or offices bat an eye if someone comes in with raging flu symptoms? No, something is going on here that just ... doesn't ... add ... up.
And, yet, the flu doesn't kill nearly as many people or cause long-term, possibly permanent, life changing issues for a fairly significant number of people.
 

Free

Member
From
AB, Canada
Gender
Male
Messages
14,493
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
OK, here's the sort of thing that has me questioning ...

I'm very familiar with the Republic of Belarus. Been there a number of times. Compared to the U.S., car ownership is rare. Transportation is typically by bus and train, and they are packed. The climate is ghastly - cold and wet. The socialized healthcare system is primitive by U.S. standards - I fortunately haven't had to use it, but I've seen it up close. To miss more than 3 days of work, you have to be certified by a doctor every 3 days; if that means standing in line at a clinic for 4 hours, too bad for you. No one who can afford private healthcare uses the socialized system, but the vast majority of people have to. Alcoholism is epidemic.

We have numerous relatives and friends in Belarus, so I think we have a pretty good grasp on the reality.

COVID statistics, pretty much up to the minute:
  • The United States has 35 times the population of Belarus - 329,500,000 to 9,399,000

  • The United States has 89 times the COVID infections - 87,301,331 to 982,867

  • The United States has 146 times the COVID deaths - 1,018,186 to 6,978
Just in case Belarus is some weird outlier, let's take India:
  • India has 4.3 times the population of the United States - 1,407,088,008 to 329,500,000

  • India has almost exactly 1/2 the COVID infections - 43,518,564 to 87,301,331

  • India has just slightly more than 1/2 the COVID deaths - 1,018,186 to 525,223
It could just be a failure of certain governments to take proper counts. This would be likely true of India, where at one point last year, dead bodies were too numerous and were even seen floating down rivers. It could be that people took more precautions in other countries. It could be that people put a false hope in warmer climates, such as in Florida, Texas, and California--three of the worst states for COVID over the course of the pandemic--and people thought they would safe gathering together outside. Could be any number of factors.
 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015

Fact Check-No evidence newborn babies died after exposure to COVID-19 vaccine

By Reuters Fact Check
6 Min Read
Viral social media posts claim some newborn babies in Britain died of pulmonary haemorrhage shortly after birth due to mothers being vaccinated against COVID-19 during pregnancy. However, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) and Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) told Reuters there is no available data showing that.


Apparently, Rumble is kind of a clearinghouse for whacked-out conspiracy theorists:

Rumble Sends Viewers Tumbling Toward Misinformation

Research shows the emergent video platform can recommend conspiracy theories and other harmful content more often than not.
Barb, I can't join in this conversation because it bothers me too much on several levels...
But
There have been peer reviewed reports on some of the above.

I've had to stop reading about this, but doctors and scientists are agreeing regarding some of the after effects.
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
I've had to stop reading about this, but doctors and scientists are agreeing regarding some of the after effects.
That's the troubling thing; even mild infections can produce long-term medical problems for people. And we won't know the extent of that for years.

But there are lot of people pumping weird rumors for which there is no evidence whatever. Some of it is promoted from abroad with the intent of dividing and weakening us. But much of it is merely home-grown craziness.
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
And my own personal experience, knowing people who have been infected and/or died, suggests that the data from hospitals, states, and other sources is correct.
 

Runner

 
Supporter
From
The Wild West
Gender
Male
Messages
198
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Barb, I can't join in this conversation because it bothers me too much on several levels...
But
There have been peer reviewed reports on some of the above.

I've had to stop reading about this, but doctors and scientists are agreeing regarding some of the after effects.
I believe I'm being 100% rational about this issue. I haven't visited ONE conspiracy site, I've laughed out loud at some of the stuff on Christian talk radio and elsewhere, My puzzlement is pretty much 100% experience-and-observation-based in one of the supposedly "deadliest" and "least vaccinated" areas of the country. My lawyer's brain tells me SOMETHING JUST DOES NOT ADD UP. I don't have a pet conspiracy theory, but something just does not add up.

I believe the statistics from Belarus are reasonably accurate. I cited Belarus because I'm personally familiar with it and have lots of inside sources. How do COVID hysterians explain the fact that a medically primitive country that should be almost a perfect incubator for a COVID disaster has wildly LOWER infection and death rates than the United States? I asked my wife on our morning walk today, "Do Katya (a lawyer for an agricultural equipment firm), Nik (a major construction executive) or Marina (an accountant with a Big Five firm) know ONE person who has died of COVID?" The answer: "Nope."

I also cited India, but I reviewed the data for a number of other countries before it got boring. Something just doesn't add up.

If I were conspiracy-inclined, I could actually posit two diametrically opposed theories that would fit the reality I observe:
  • COVID is, in fact, the deadliest disease in the history of the world, and "they" know this. There is no effective medical cure over the long term, and "they" know this. COVID is eventually going to destroy the entire human race, and "they" know this. What looks to me like unwarranted, overblown hysteria is merely "them" trying to keep a lid on the reality as long as possible.

  • Because COVID is a serious and somewhat mysterious disease, "they" quickly saw a golden opportunity in social experimentation and engineering. What looks to me like unwarranted, overblown hysteria is, in fact, exactly that. People are being programmed by "them" to accept absurd levels of control and diminution of their rights. "They" will eventually use what "they" have leaned from Project COVID to usher in the dreaded One World Order.
Considering that you, wondering, were speculating about Freemasonry and the dreaded "state" on another thread, I'm surprised that you seem to be so thoroughly on the "Nothing to see here" bandwagon in regard to COVID. I think there is very much something to see here - but I don't know what it is. I believe my position that SOMETHING JUST DOES NOT ADD UP is 100% rational.

I mentioned on another thread just finishing an excellent scholarly book called Real Enemies: Conspiracy Theories and American Democracy, World War I to 9/11. The author's point is that in every historical incident she examined that has given rise to wild-and-crazy conspiracy theories, there ACTUALLY WAS malfeasance, incompetence, conspiring and covering up by those in charge. The wild-and-crazy conspiracy theorists were just off on the wrong tangents that matched their preconceived worldviews. I suspect with COVID something just does not add up because something other than what we are being told is, in fact, going on.
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
There are always conspiracies. Adam Smith noted this a long time ago:

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public.” Adam Smith, 1776.

It's just that so few of them really do very much. We happen to be in a time when new diseases appear more frequently. It's a combination of changing environments, increased travel, and larger populations. None of this is surprising to people who study this kind of thing.

For sure, COVID-19 is not the sort of thing you'd see from a conspiracy to kill off a lot of people, or to gain military or economic advantage. We pretty much bungled the response to the virus and it killed off maybe one American for every 330 Americans. And if we had been better at it, it wouldn't even have been that bad.

On the other hand, over a million dead Americans is not small thing. Our take-away should be this: "It's going to happen again, and next time, it could be a lot worse."

A rational response would be to learn from it and prepare.
 

Free

Member
From
AB, Canada
Gender
Male
Messages
14,493
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Link on this by any chance ?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57154564

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...cbced6-b811-11eb-bc4a-62849cf6cca9_story.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/india...umped-indias-ganges-govt-document-2021-05-15/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/2/poverty-stigma-behind-bodies-floating-in-indias-ganges-river

Additional reasons as to the high likelihood of significant undercount of deaths in India:

'Many — perhaps most — COVID-19 deaths are being missed as well. India is currently averaging more than 1,100 daily deaths, the second-highest level in the world after Brazil. But as Ramanan Laxminarayan, an economist and epidemiologist who is the founder and director of the Center for Disease Dynamics, Economics & Policy, explained in a recent interview with the New Yorker, “We don’t know the cause of death for four out of five people in normal times” in India because “only one in five deaths is medically recorded” — and “that has continued during COVID.”

At the same time, Laxminarayan continued, “the levels of testing are so low that the people who didn’t get tested and then died of a stroke or a heart attack that was likely COVID-related would not be reported as a COVID death.”

The undercount, in other words, is probably huge.

Reports from the frontlines of India’s spiraling surge support this theory. According to a Reuters investigation published Monday, “Several major [Indian] cities are reporting far larger numbers of cremations and burials under coronavirus protocols than official COVID-19 death tolls, according to crematorium and cemetery workers, media and a review of government data.”

In Surat, for instance, Reuters reported that over the last week, two facilities have cremated more than 100 bodies a day under COVID protocols — far in excess of the city’s official daily COVID death toll of around 25. At one of them, gas and firewood furnaces have been running so long without a break that “metal parts have begun to melt.”

In Lucknow, data from the largest COVID-only crematorium shows that the number of bodies that arrived on six different days in April was twice as high as the official number of deaths recorded across the entire city. Elsewhere, India Today reported that two Bhopal facilities alone cremated 187 bodies on days when the city’s official death toll stood at five, and in Ahmedabad last week, 63 bodies left a single COVID-only hospital for cremation on a day when the entire city recorded just 20 coronavirus deaths.'

https://news.yahoo.com/indias-covid...d-worry-americans-140203352.html?guccounter=1

There is a lot of information out there on this.
 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
I believe I'm being 100% rational about this issue. I haven't visited ONE conspiracy site, I've laughed out loud at some of the stuff on Christian talk radio and elsewhere, My puzzlement is pretty much 100% experience-and-observation-based in one of the supposedly "deadliest" and "least vaccinated" areas of the country. My lawyer's brain tells me SOMETHING JUST DOES NOT ADD UP. I don't have a pet conspiracy theory, but something just does not add up.

I believe the statistics from Belarus are reasonably accurate. I cited Belarus because I'm personally familiar with it and have lots of inside sources. How do COVID hysterians explain the fact that a medically primitive country that should be almost a perfect incubator for a COVID disaster has wildly LOWER infection and death rates than the United States? I asked my wife on our morning walk today, "Do Katya (a lawyer for an agricultural equipment firm), Nik (a major construction executive) or Marina (an accountant with a Big Five firm) know ONE person who has died of COVID?" The answer: "Nope."

I also cited India, but I reviewed the data for a number of other countries before it got boring. Something just doesn't add up.

If I were conspiracy-inclined, I could actually posit two diametrically opposed theories that would fit the reality I observe:
  • COVID is, in fact, the deadliest disease in the history of the world, and "they" know this. There is no effective medical cure over the long term, and "they" know this. COVID is eventually going to destroy the entire human race, and "they" know this. What looks to me like unwarranted, overblown hysteria is merely "them" trying to keep a lid on the reality as long as possible.

  • Because COVID is a serious and somewhat mysterious disease, "they" quickly saw a golden opportunity in social experimentation and engineering. What looks to me like unwarranted, overblown hysteria is, in fact, exactly that. People are being programmed by "them" to accept absurd levels of control and diminution of their rights. "They" will eventually use what "they" have leaned from Project COVID to usher in the dreaded One World Order.
Considering that you, wondering, were speculating about Freemasonry and the dreaded "state" on another thread, I'm surprised that you seem to be so thoroughly on the "Nothing to see here" bandwagon in regard to COVID. I think there is very much something to see here - but I don't know what it is. I believe my position that SOMETHING JUST DOES NOT ADD UP is 100% rational.

I mentioned on another thread just finishing an excellent scholarly book called Real Enemies: Conspiracy Theories and American Democracy, World War I to 9/11. The author's point is that in every historical incident she examined that has given rise to wild-and-crazy conspiracy theories, there ACTUALLY WAS malfeasance, incompetence, conspiring and covering up by those in charge. The wild-and-crazy conspiracy theorists were just off on the wrong tangents that matched their preconceived worldviews. I suspect with COVID something just does not add up because something other than what we are being told is, in fact, going on.
I didn't realize I was on a conspiracy theory thread.
What am I doing here?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I think you've misunderstood my previous post.
I agree with you.

I think that in 2019/2020 there might have been some real fear regarding the new virus because maybe it hadn't been experimented on humans so they didn't know what it would do.

Toward the end of 2020 I believe what you say is true....
Although I don't know the reason, except I agree with your theories of being manipulated by the state, but for what reason I can't fathom. I know masonry exists, and also in governments, but I really fail to understand their goal.

I see plenty here. Have you ever read the Epoch Times?
Even the VP of Pfizer (I think it was Pfizer) had plenty to say.
If you give me your email address privately, I'll send you a link.
I don't know if I can do it here...I'll try...


 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
I didn't realize I was on a conspiracy theory thread.
What am I doing here?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I think you've misunderstood my previous post.
I agree with you.

I think that in 2019/2020 there might have been some real fear regarding the new virus because maybe it hadn't been experimented on humans so they didn't know what it would do.

Toward the end of 2020 I believe what you say is true....
Although I don't know the reason, except I agree with your theories of being manipulated by the state, but for what reason I can't fathom. I know masonry exists, and also in governments, but I really fail to understand their goal.

I see plenty here. Have you ever read the Epoch Times?
Even the VP of Pfizer (I think it was Pfizer) had plenty to say.
If you give me your email address privately, I'll send you a link.
I don't know if I can do it here...I'll try...


Runner
I can't link you to the free email copies without your address...
but there's plenty to read there.
 

hawkman

Member
From
Alabama
Gender
Male
Messages
1,132
Joined
May 16, 2021
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57154564

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...cbced6-b811-11eb-bc4a-62849cf6cca9_story.html

https://www.reuters.com/world/india...umped-indias-ganges-govt-document-2021-05-15/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/2/poverty-stigma-behind-bodies-floating-in-indias-ganges-river

Additional reasons as to the high likelihood of significant undercount of deaths in India:

'Many — perhaps most — COVID-19 deaths are being missed as well. India is currently averaging more than 1,100 daily deaths, the second-highest level in the world after Brazil. But as Ramanan Laxminarayan, an economist and epidemiologist who is the founder and director of the Center for Disease Dynamics, Economics & Policy, explained in a recent interview with the New Yorker, “We don’t know the cause of death for four out of five people in normal times” in India because “only one in five deaths is medically recorded” — and “that has continued during COVID.”

At the same time, Laxminarayan continued, “the levels of testing are so low that the people who didn’t get tested and then died of a stroke or a heart attack that was likely COVID-related would not be reported as a COVID death.”

The undercount, in other words, is probably huge.

Reports from the frontlines of India’s spiraling surge support this theory. According to a Reuters investigation published Monday, “Several major [Indian] cities are reporting far larger numbers of cremations and burials under coronavirus protocols than official COVID-19 death tolls, according to crematorium and cemetery workers, media and a review of government data.”

In Surat, for instance, Reuters reported that over the last week, two facilities have cremated more than 100 bodies a day under COVID protocols — far in excess of the city’s official daily COVID death toll of around 25. At one of them, gas and firewood furnaces have been running so long without a break that “metal parts have begun to melt.”

In Lucknow, data from the largest COVID-only crematorium shows that the number of bodies that arrived on six different days in April was twice as high as the official number of deaths recorded across the entire city. Elsewhere, India Today reported that two Bhopal facilities alone cremated 187 bodies on days when the city’s official death toll stood at five, and in Ahmedabad last week, 63 bodies left a single COVID-only hospital for cremation on a day when the entire city recorded just 20 coronavirus deaths.'

https://news.yahoo.com/indias-covid...d-worry-americans-140203352.html?guccounter=1

There is a lot of information out there on this.
Thanks ! A perfect storm of high funeral prices and deaths .

And this too.

Traditionally, Hindus cremate their dead. But many communities follow what is known as "Jal Pravah" - the practice of floating in the river the bodies of children, unwed girls, or those who die from infectious diseases or snake bites.
Many poor people also cannot afford cremation, and so they wrap the body in white muslin and push it into the water. Sometimes, the bodies are tied to stones to ensure they remain submerged, but as many are floated without weights. In normal times, corpses floating in the Ganges are not an uncommon sight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-57154564
 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Ha! I've done that a number of times already - looked at the New Posts, got in the middle of a discussion, and discovered I was in a forum and on a thread I actually cared nothing about!
It's not that I don't care.
Actually, I care a lot...
so I don't like that this is on a conspiracy sub-forum.
IOW...I don't think this is a conspiracy...I think it's real !

But that's where the OP placed it, so here I am!
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Pandemic one was the 1918 influenza. The first modern plague. There are more coming. The new diseases are a result of large populations, environmental and climate changes, and other factors.
 

wondering

CF Ambassador
From
Italy
Gender
Female
Messages
19,700
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Pandemic one was the 1918 influenza. The first modern plague. There are more coming. The new diseases are a result of large populations, environmental and climate changes, and other factors.
Agreed.
And I believe some are man-made, probably like this one. I forget what it's called,,,when science modified an existing virus.
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Agreed.
And I believe some are man-made, probably like this one. I forget what it's called,,,when science modified an existing virus.
The evidence shows that the first COVID-19 infections happened to a group of miners not far from Wuhan. The virus wasn't modified by a lab, but the samples from the miners were sent to a lab in Wuhan, and ...

The coronavirus may not have originated at a Wuhan wet market last year but 1,000 miles away in 2012 — deep in a Chinese mineshaft where workers came down with a mysterious, pneumonia-like illness after being exposed to bats.

Virologist Jonathan Latham and molecular biologist Allison Wilson, both of the non-profit Bioscience Resource Project in Ithaca, arrived at their finding after translating a 66-page master’s thesis from the Chinese medical doctor who treated the miners and sent their tissue samples to the Wuhan Institute of Virology for testing.

“The evidence it contains has led us to reconsider everything we thought we knew about the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic,” Latham and Wilson wrote in an article published July 15 on their website, “Independent Science News.”

Latham told The Post that the coronavirus “almost certainly escaped” from the Wuhan lab.


Not as dramatic as the stories would have it. But it makes more sense.
 

Barbarian

Member
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Messages
29,267
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
It seems pretty clear that the virus was first transmitted from bats to humans in a mine. The samples taken from the miners were taken to the lab at Wuhan, from which it seems the virus escaped and infected local people. That's what the evidence indicates at this point.
 
Top