Narcissism won't be in the new DSM

[Christ_empowered]

The DSM is the manual shrinks and therapists use to diagnose people. Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is currently seen as a cluster of symptoms relating to extreme self-absorption, exploiting others, and the need for admiration and ego boosts ("narcissistic supply").

I'm posting this b/c I'm always going on and on about how modern society is making us more narcissistic as a group. I was even once diagnosed with NPD when I was younger; I think Christ healed me of it, so now I'm still sinful and self-centered, just not to the point of being pathological.

Anyway, do you think it speaks to a shift in our society? Maybe these traits have become so common that its no longer even considered disordered? I read one article online that talked about the "adaptive" benefits of "healthy" narcissism. Obviously, they were coming at it from a secular angle; as Christians, we are called to crucify ourselves daily, not become skilled at being ever more self-serving and self-important.

Do you think maybe the case for an overall increase in narcissism has been overstated? I just feel that with people constantly updating facebook and striving to be "cool" at all ages, narcissism has been instilled in us, as a way of making us more compliant and less independent. I also think the fact that so many of us have to work dead-end, poorly paying jobs with no hope of stability or even a pension leads to narcissism; its like we have to get a self-esteem boost from something, so we buy the "right" clothes and music and project the "right" image.
Plus, when people are so busy trying to be "cool" and fit it, they're unlikely to rock the boat and do something to change their society and situation. Just my opinion, though.

I seem to recall somewhere in the Bible...I think its in 2nd Timothy....we are told that in the "last days" people will become what we would now think of as narcissistic. Sleeping around, drinking and drug use, self-importance, no respect for parents, no reverence for God. I'm sure humanity has always been this way, and I'm sure social and economic conditions cause this tendency to wax and wane, but...it seems to be intensifying, even over my relatively short time here on Earth (I'll be 27 in a couple months).

OK...so this post was kind of rambling, but I mean entire books have been written on this subject, mostly (unfortunately) from a secular standpoint, without input from Christians.

What do you all think?

 

[theLords]

I think your insights are very deep. Americans are known worldwide as "arrogant" and allow it is a logical fallacy (hasty generalization) there is some overall truth in it as you've already explained. America isn't #1 in most academic studies in world rankings, but America ranks #1 in confidence. There is no more "winning" or "losing" in American sports for children. At the end of the match, everyone's a winner! Next thing you know, the honor roll system will be removed for making the other students feel bad.

 

[jackkerouac]

Don't confuse arrogance, selfishness, and general self-centeredness with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It's not the same thing. The first three are sinful behaviors. The last is a disorder.

I think, to be fair, you need to wait and see how it plays out in the new DSM. It could be that the behavioral criteria that currently qualifies a NPD diagnosis will be couple with or subsumed by another, similar personality disorder. This is kind of what's happening with Asperger's. It will not be listed in the new edition as it's own diagnosis but will be considered one of the Autism Spectrum Disorders. Some folks don't like this because it changes how services are accessed and funded, but those things shouldn't be factors in diagnosing anyway.

Another thing...is it better to have sinful behavior listed as a mental disorder so it can be justified and "treated"? Or would you rather have it acknowledge as sinful behavior?

 

[Christ_empowered]

Narcissism was never really "treated" all that well by psychiatrists. Earlier, from what I understand, some shrinks+therapists reported good results by--get this--encouraging trust and empathy in the therapeutic relationship. These days, the diagnosis is a death sentence; your work-a-day shrink just labels someone "narcissistic," which is assumed to be a lifelong condition, and then chalks up all their problems to this "personality disorder."

I have personal reasons to be glad to see NPD go out of the new DSM. I was once labelled with NPD at a young age and the shrinks at my mental hospital basically decided I just wanted to be "special" and "get attention." Fast forward a couple years: I had a nervous breakdown caused by--surprise!--bipolar type I.

So, I don't know. I'd hate to see people (mis)labelled and treated poorly, but I also want to know why its being eliminated. I would also like to see more people caught up in the mental health system try repenting of their sins and see how that goes. I've kind of gotten the feeling that, these days, shrinks do a lot of what religious leaders do and did in the past; they care for the lost. Shrinks, however, make a lot of money off of it and pump people full of potentially dangerous drugs to "fix" them, while pastors/priests/whatever (at least in the Christian tradition) called for repentance, responsibility, and healing. Big difference.

 

[Christ_empowered]

and I think its also worth noting that Narcissistic traits only become a disorder when...a shrink says so. The diagnosis is subjective, as are the criteria to make the diagnosis.

 

[Pard]

Uh it seems to me like a self-treating problem. Arrogant and egotistical people are the ones you may listen to because they are so dang loud but the fact is they are excommunicated and they know people are talking behind their backs. I know a guy who thinks he is the greatest guy in the entire world... he know longer runs in my circles because no one can stand his arrogance and his constant preening.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I do think people with "narcissism" can heal and be OK. That happened for me, although there was a lot going on in my situation.

 

[Pard]

Well, psychology teaches that humans need socialization to function properly. People without other people will go crazy. So if the narcissists are excommunicated than they will either find people who don't mind their narcissism (and than there isn't much of a problem in my book) or they will stop being arrogant egoists.

 

[jackkerouac]

Shrinks, however, make a lot of money off of it and pump people full of potentially dangerous drugs to "fix" them, while pastors/priests/whatever (at least in the Christian tradition) called for repentance, responsibility, and healing. Big difference.

I'm kind of confused about the point your trying to make. But it should be made clear that repentance doesn't cure a neurological disorder any more than medication cures sin.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Hey man. I don't really have a *point*, lol...I just wanted to discuss. Narcissism was a personality disorder that overlapped with a lot of other disorders (some of them considered "real" mental illnesses, such as bipolar or schizophrenia). I'm just wondering if its removed b/c the behaviors have become so common that its no longer disordered (kind of like homosexuality was removed b/c society moved towards tolerance), or if the diagnosis was just vague and misapplied, and therefore needed to be removed.

I think it also shows how much "mental illness" is still in the eye of the beholder. I mean, we can't diagnose these things based on brain scans or blood work, so it makes you wonder...what is "normal" ? What is "mental health" ? Who decides? When is it a "personality disorder" that might respond to therapy and/or corrective experiences in life, and when is it a "mental illness" that demands some other form of treatment, usually involving pills? Who makes the call?

Sorry. I didn't post this to make a *point*, I just find the whole mental health industry weirdly fascinating, in part b/c I'm stuck being a patient for the foreseeable future. That and I've read too much Dr. Thomas Szasz to be a 110% believer in the "system."