Nephilim

[Guap]

Well said.

Thank you.

You're welcome

 

[Guap]

While pagan kings were referred to as sons of a foreign deity, no Israelite king was so designated. True, nobles and those in authority were occasionally called ‘gods,’ but not the ‘sons of God.’ This definition chooses to ignore the precise definition given by the Scriptures themselves.

Ever read Ps 2?

 

[JLB]

Exo_4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Which scripture is the truth?

Israel is a prophetic reference to Jesus.

He is the very expression of God Prevails.

 

[JLB]

Israel was Gods first born son... thus, they are the son of YHVH. Jesus is the only begotten son of YHVH.
Sons of Nobles... Caesar considered himself a God aka deity. His offspring would be called sons of God.

Look in scripture and you will find that YHVH was the elohim above all elohim. So it is clear in scripture that other elohim are recognized... you shall have no other elohim besides me... its even noted in the 10 commandments...

What is clear in Genesis 6, is how the terms of designation, shows a distinction from each other.

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4


A different term is used to describe each designation of species.


Men began to multiply on the face of the earth.

Daughters were born to them.

Verse 1 introduces the natural order and designates the terms given to those in the natural order of God's creation.

The previous Chapter lays out for us the natural order of God's creation in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. 6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7 After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died. 9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died. 12 Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. 13 After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. 14 So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died. 15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died. 18 Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. 19 After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 20 So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died. 21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. 25 Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. 26 After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, "This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed." 30 After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The natural order of men and women having children, sons and daughters.

There are no Giants mentioned in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

The Giants, Nephilim are introduced into the earth when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.

Men and women = sons and daughters.

Sons of God and daughters of men = Giants [Nephilim].

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them.

Men - a designation given to what God created and blessed and commanded to multiply and fill the earth.

Daughters of men - a designation given to the offspring of male and female humans.

Sons of God is a designation given to angelic beings.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."

Satan came from the earth, where he had been...

From the earth means the meeting that took place before the Lord was not on earth.

The sons of God were not on earth.

They were angelic beings like Satan

Giants - is a designation given to the offspring of sons of God and the daughters of human beings.


JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Israel was Gods first born son..

I disagree. The scripture says -

JLB

So, you don't believe scripture? Sorry, couldn't resist
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

He is this verse is Jesus.

Oh, I agree. John 3:16 even says: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

So let us see... YHVH says that Israel was his son, "even my firstborn". But Jesus says that he is YHVH's ONLY begotten son and Paul says Jesus is hte firstborn over all creation.

You seem to like logic. How can this be? Is God lying, is Paul lying or is Jesus lying? Of course, you must know that I'm poking at you

Hmmm... something else must be happening here.

Lets take this one passage at a time. How do you interpret: Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

I look forward to your response.

 

[stovebolts]

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Which scripture is the truth?

Israel is a prophetic reference to Jesus.

He is the very expression of God Prevails.

Ahh, I just saw this, so please disregard my last post.

So lets see, Israel is a prophetic reference to Jesus. Even when Israel is exiled from the land for sinning? Was Jesus ever exiled from the land for sinning? Oh wait, he did come down to earth, was that his exile since we know the land represents heaven? Or is that a different Israel. Sorry, not trying to preach a different gospel here :nod But my oh my...

 

[JLB]

Ahh, I just saw this, so please disregard my last post.

So lets see, Israel is a prophetic reference to Jesus. Even when Israel is exiled from the land for sinning? Was Jesus ever exiled from the land for sinning? Oh wait, he did come down to earth, was that his exile since we know the land represents heaven? Or is that a different Israel. Sorry, not trying to preach a different gospel here :nod But my oh my...

Hence the term prophetic reference.

There is natural Israel, the man who was renamed by God, from Jacob.

This Israel was a type of Christ.

There is the nation of Israel.

This Israel is a type of the Church.

Which Israel represents God's Firstborn over all creation?

JLB

 

[stovebolts]

What is clear in Genesis 6, is how the terms of designation, shows a distinction from each other.

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4


A different term is used to describe each designation of species.


Men began to multiply on the face of the earth.

Daughters were born to them.

Verse 1 introduces the natural order and designates the terms given to those in the natural order of God's creation.

The previous Chapter lays out for us the natural order of God's creation in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. 6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7 After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died. 9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died. 12 Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. 13 After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. 14 So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died. 15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died. 18 Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. 19 After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 20 So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died. 21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. 25 Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. 26 After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, "This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed." 30 After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

The natural order of men and women having children, sons and daughters.

There are no Giants mentioned in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

The Giants, Nephilim are introduced into the earth when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.

Men and women = sons and daughters.

Sons of God and daughters of men = Giants [Nephilim].

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them.

Men - a designation given to what God created and blessed and commanded to multiply and fill the earth.

Daughters of men - a designation given to the offspring of male and female humans.

Sons of God is a designation given to angelic beings.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."

Satan came from the earth, where he had been...

From the earth means the meeting that took place before the Lord was not on earth.

The sons of God were not on earth.

They were angelic beings like Satan

Giants - is a designation given to the offspring of sons of God and the daughters of human beings.


JLB

JLB,
Please don't misunderstand my not agreeing with you as not understanding you. You have articulated yourself very clearly, and what you have written above is crystal clear. I could repeat it back to you almost verbatim if it would assure you that I completely understand. I simply disagree.

Do you know why I disagree? Would you like to rebuttle what I've written without simply re-asserting your position or would you like me to rebuttle every point you make?

It seems to me our biggest disconnect is "Giants" aka "Nephilim".

You assert that these are angelic beings and conclude that I do not understand your argument. I have stated what I didn't understand in your reasoning where I failed to understand your reasoning, yet you fail to elaborate. But I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I understood everything in the post I've quoted.

In summary,
In Genesis 6, the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.

Proper Exegesis and a good exegesis is bringing a fuller picture to the text and this can be done through a historical lens in many cases and from a historical lens, son's of god can be interpreted "sons of nobles" just as easily without the hopscotching around.

 

[JLB]

Hence the term prophetic reference.

There is natural Israel, the man who was renamed by God, from Jacob.

This Israel was a type of Christ.

There is the nation of Israel.

This Israel is a type of the Church.

Which Israel represents God's Firstborn over all creation?

JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB,
Please don't misunderstand my not agreeing with you as not understanding you. You have articulated yourself very clearly, and what you have written above is crystal clear. I could repeat it back to you almost verbatim if it would assure you that I completely understand. I simply disagree.

Do you know why I disagree? Would you like to rebuttle what I've written without simply re-asserting your position or would you like me to rebuttle every point you make?

It seems to me our biggest disconnect is "Giants" aka "Nephilim".

You assert that these are angelic beings and conclude that I do not understand your argument. I have stated what I didn't understand in your reasoning where I failed to understand your reasoning, yet you fail to elaborate. But I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I understood everything in the post I've quoted.

In summary,
In Genesis 6, the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.

Proper Exegesis and a good exegesis is bringing a fuller picture to the text and this can be done through a historical lens in many cases and from a historical lens, son's of god can be interpreted "sons of nobles" just as easily without the hopscotching around.

You assert that these are angelic beings and conclude that I do not understand your argument.

I do not assert that Nephilim are angelic beings.

I assert that Nephilim are the offspring of angels and human women.

JLB

 

[stovebolts]

Hence the term prophetic reference.

There is natural Israel, the man who was renamed by God, from Jacob.

This Israel was a type of Christ.

There is the nation of Israel.

This Israel is a type of the Church.

Which Israel represents God's Firstborn over all creation?

JLB

Hmmm, interesting.
I understand from Romans 9 that not all of Israel is Israel (Because there were gentiles at Mt. Sinia who by their nature were Israel, while there were decendents of Jacob who were not Israel because they did not have the spirit of Isaac from whom the promise came) and I understand from Galatians 4 that the two sons of Abraham represent that covenant at Mt. Sinia, which by the way is what Exodus is speaking about...

I would say that Moses is a type of Christ.. Exodus 20:5

 

[stovebolts]

You assert that these are angelic beings and conclude that I do not understand your argument.

I do not assert that Nephilim are angelic beings.

I assert that Nephilim are the offspring of angels and human women.

JLB

My mistake in my hast reply and failure to properly articulate.... Thank you for the correction.

I assert they were the offspring of nobles and women....

 

[stovebolts]

My mistake in my hast reply and failure to properly articulate.... Thank you for the correction.

I assert they were the offspring of nobles and women....

Ohh boy... I just read my last statment. Don't you just hate pronouns? They can be very confusing at times.

My train of thought that "these" was in reference to "sons of god". That is why I summarized by saying:

In summary,
In Genesis 6, the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.

So again, my bad for poor articulation and my bad for only reading what you had posted from my last post. You misunderstood my sentance and I failed to articulate it clearly. Misunderstanding occur... welcome to he human race.

Now then, to my summary.

Do you find disagreement with my summary? Is it clear and concise?

The two questions are not a test. I am simply touching base with you to make sure we are in understanding of each others position.

 

[Sparkey]

Jeff's Position:

In Genesis 6, the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.
​

JLB's Position:

I assert that Nephilim are the offspring of angels and human women.​

 

[JLB]

Hmmm, interesting.
I understand from Romans 9 that not all of Israel is Israel (Because there were gentiles at Mt. Sinia who by their nature were Israel, while there were decendents of Jacob who were not Israel because they did not have the spirit of Isaac from whom the promise came) and I understand from Galatians 4 that the two sons of Abraham represent that covenant at Mt. Sinia, which by the way is what Exodus is speaking about...

I would say that Moses is a type of Christ.. Exodus 20:5

And Aaron, and David and Solomon...

 

[reba]

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Which scripture is the truth?

Israel is a prophetic reference to Jesus.

He is the very expression of God Prevails.

All Scripture is truth.... its our understanding that gets mess up 2

 

[stovebolts]

And Aaron, and David and Solomon...

I wouldn't go that far. None of the above were ever considered prophets. But I don't think we need to go down that road as far as Nephilim are concerned.

What I would clearly say is that Israel was not a type of Christ and I think Paul affirms this in Romans 9 and Galatians 4 as it relates to Exodus 4.

Back to the argument at hand. Who were the sons of god and how are these words interpreted in Genesis 6? This is what both of our arguments hinge upon.

Would you like to ask me any questions on what I believe the proper interpretation is? Or do you prefer to continue asserting your position?

Take care.

 

[Sparkey]

Exodus 4:22,23 And you shall say to Pharaoh, Thus said the LORD, Israel is my son, …
Deuteronomy 14:1 You are the children of the LORD your God: you shall not cut yourselves, …
Psalm 82:6,7 I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High…
Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless you are our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and …

John 8:41 You do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not …
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love me: for …

Romans 9:7,8 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: …
2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father to you, and you shall be my sons and daughters, …


John 8:41
You are doing the works of your own father." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself."

JLB's Position:

I assert that Nephilim are the offspring of angels and human women.​

Jeff's Position:

In the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.​

 

[JLB]

What is clear in Genesis 6, is how the terms of designation, shows a distinction from each other.

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4


A different term is used to describe each designation of species.

Men began to multiply on the face of the earth.

Daughters were born to them.

Verse 1 introduces the natural order and designates the terms given to those in the natural order of God's creation.

The previous Chapter lays out for us the natural order of God's creation in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created. 3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth. 4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died. 6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and begot Enosh. 7 After he begot Enosh, Seth lived eight hundred and seven years, and had sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years; and he died. 9 Enosh lived ninety years, and begot Cainan. 10 After he begot Cainan, Enosh lived eight hundred and fifteen years, and had sons and daughters. 11 So all the days of Enosh were nine hundred and five years; and he died. 12 Cainan lived seventy years, and begot Mahalalel. 13 After he begot Mahalalel, Cainan lived eight hundred and forty years, and had sons and daughters. 14 So all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years; and he died. 15 Mahalalel lived sixty-five years, and begot Jared. 16 After he begot Jared, Mahalalel lived eight hundred and thirty years, and had sons and daughters. 17 So all the days of Mahalalel were eight hundred and ninety-five years; and he died. 18 Jared lived one hundred and sixty-two years, and begot Enoch. 19 After he begot Enoch, Jared lived eight hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 20 So all the days of Jared were nine hundred and sixty-two years; and he died. 21 Enoch lived sixty-five years, and begot Methuselah. 22 After he begot Methuselah, Enoch walked with God three hundred years, and had sons and daughters. 23 So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. 24 And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. 25 Methuselah lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, and begot Lamech. 26 After he begot Lamech, Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years, and had sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years; and he died. 28 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, "This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed." 30 After he begot Noah, Lamech lived five hundred and ninety-five years, and had sons and daughters. 31 So all the days of Lamech were seven hundred and seventy-seven years; and he died. 32 And Noah was five hundred years old, and Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
The natural order of men and women having children, sons and daughters.

There are no Giants mentioned in the genealogy from Adam to Noah.

The Giants, Nephilim are introduced into the earth when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them.

Men and women = sons and daughters.

Sons of God and daughters of men = Giants [Nephilim].

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them.

Men - a designation given to what God created and blessed and commanded to multiply and fill the earth.

Daughters of men - a designation given to the offspring of male and female humans.

Sons of God is a designation given to angelic beings.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
Satan came from the earth, where he had been...

From the earth means the meeting that took place before the Lord was not on earth.

The sons of God were not on earth.

They were angelic beings like Satan

Giants - is a designation given to the offspring of sons of God and the daughters of men.

JLB

 

[stovebolts]

The sons of God were not on earth.

They were angelic beings like Satan

I quoted this from post 319. Perhaps you didn't think I read it's duplicate copy from you previous post 304?

But thank you for affirming that my position in this argument is correct. Here, I will post it for you a third time, just to make sure you get a chance to read it, you know.. just in case you missed it the other two times.

In Genesis 6, the term "sons of god" is used. In Job 1, the same term "sons of god" is used.
Because "sons of God" is accepted as being angels in Job 1, then this term must be interpreted as angels in Genesis 6.

This is where your argument hinges and without this link, your reasoning fails.

Now then, I have asked you many questions on the reasoning that surrounds your assertion. Many of them which remained unanswered. I also tried to answer your questions.

Do you have any questions on my reasoning of "sons of nobles".. Please be specific.