Netanyahu will Try to Rebuild the Jewish Temple

[nonbelieverforums]

Well then I am not sure what you plan to call this building that is being constructed on the Temple Mount . This building is on it's way to construction everything is ready to go. The building of this temple in the next few years is an absolute certaintly. Did anyone look at the videos I posted or go to the www.temple institute website. The Jews call it the Third Temple and so does the Bible.

This is not a theory or somekind man made fulfilment of prophecy. I suggest the only people that use the term God's Temple would be those of the Jewish faith. As far as animal scrafice is concerned, the Jewish people don't believe Jesus Christ died for our sins so that I suggest this is the reason for animal scrafice.

To deny the construction of this temple and to suggest this won't be the temple the antichrist will enter into and declare himself god is just silly.

 

[Vic C.]

I believe that God will bring them back into the flock in much the same way He has been doing with man for the last 2,000 years or so. The book of Hebrews is telling them they failed to properly commit to the Old Covenant. There are several reasons how and why and that should be discussed in a thread on Covenants. There was fault with the Old Covenant, not God's fault, but man's.

I'm not ignorant to what you are saying. I once believed this too. I know there are plans to complete another Temple. I followed the teachings of pretribulation for years. I followed the teachings of Pastor Bob of Calvary Chapel. I know about the Temple Institute. Many of the proponents of pretrib openly admit there can't produce a verse that clearly says a third temple will be built. So how did we get there?

You have to answer this questions for yourself (not me): Why did Jesus have to die? Why not just continue on with Temple worship and temple sacrifices that were clearly inefficient in dealing with sin? Why did God reveal His New Covenant if the Old one was still useful?

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

 

[Matthew24:34]

These animal scrafices continue to this day but not on a regular basis. You can see how they are teaching animal sacrfice right now at the Temple Institute website. Everything is ready to go, the wardrobe, altars, the cutting tools everything. To be honest I am not sure why they have not started actual construction of the temple yet.

There are a few videos out there if you want to see what is involved in these rituals the way a lamb and a red heffer are sacrificed. It is very gruesome. I can see why the world will be watching.

I am convinced the construction of the temple will happen in our lifetime and this is relevant (to me at least) as to when we are getting close to the rise of the Antichrist and the ultimate return of Christ (rapture views aside). The temple represents one of the important signs we should be watching (my opinion).

No one knows when Christ will return but we are clearly given the signs in scripture so we may educate ourselves on the signs of his coming. There is a part in scripture where Christ was upset with his disciples because they knew more about how to predict the weather then how to predict the signs of his return.

WE were NOT given the signs! Those disciples of Jesus' day were given the signs. Jesus said to THEM to watch; He told THEM that they were to recognize the signs of His coming as clearly as THEY recognized the coming of summer in the budding of the fig tree and ALL the trees (Mat. 24; Luke 21). THEY were to know when THEY saw the signs that His coming was near--at the doors!

IF a Temple is built in Jerusalem (and I doubt one every will be), it will NOT be for the fulfillment of prophecy and it will not be pleasing in God's sight! Jesus pronounced woes on that final generation of physical, national Jews who were of the synagogue of Satan (Rev. 2:9; 3:9) and were guilty of ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth (Mat. 23). The temple and their city was left unto them desolate. Millions of Jews died or were taken into captivity. That nation created by the U.N. in 1948 has nothing whatsoever to do with OT Israel. Those who today call themselves Jews did not return to the "land" in belief--many are secular in their mindsets. They do NOT know of what tribe they are descended. They cannot even prove that they are truly Jews in the OT sense.

God brought a final and total end to that nation in A. D. 70!

Again, read the context of Matthew 24 and Luke 21--WE are NOT the YE!

Matthew24:34

 

[Drew]

[Believe what you want, but your theology is fringe theology based on supposition and guesswork without any semblance of truth. God still has a covenant with Israel,...

I disagree, assuming that I understand you as asserting that God has some "special" plans or outstanding promises for the Jews as a distinct group. After the cross, there is no sense at all in which God sees the Jew as being distinct from the Gentile.

 

[Drew]

When did God renege on His covenant with Israel?
Why are the 144,000 Jews from every tribe sealed and designated apart from the multitude who have washed themselves in the the blood of the lamb?
Why are the Israelites planning the building of the Temple if it is not going to happen?

God never made any promises to Israel that extend past the cross:

For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God.

It appears that you believe that it is part of God's plan that Palestine be for the Jewish people. Is that what you believe? I believe it is pretty clear that Paul, for one, did not believe this.

I am amazed that so many can interpret the Scriptures away from the literal truth, and embellish and abstract opinion as truth and feel more spiritual than the next. Simply amazing. Those who follow the lies of the enemy are prophesied as being many in the last days leading up to His return by the Lord Jesus Christ. Many who call Jesus the Christ will deceive many with their doctrines of devils. Those who are deceived in this manner are deceived because they have not tested the spirit to see whether it is from God or is another spirit. It is better to take God at His Word as opposed to guessing a symbolic representation of His Word as being truth. Shame shame shame.

Since the moderators are apparently tolerating this, I believe is appropriate to rebuke it. You have not changed one iota, Solo. You continue in your old mode of demonizing those who do not share your opinion - implying that we are followers of Satan.

 

[Vic C.]

[Believe what you want, but your theology is fringe theology based on supposition and guesswork without any semblance of truth. God still has a covenant with Israel,...

I disagree, assuming that I understand you as asserting that God has some "special" plans or outstanding promises for the Jews as a distinct group. After the cross, there is no sense at all in which God sees the Jew as being distinct from the Gentile.

But God did have something to say about this; Romans 11 says a lot. :amen

 

[Matthew24:34]

[Believe what you want, but your theology is fringe theology based on supposition and guesswork without any semblance of truth. God still has a covenant with Israel,...

I disagree, assuming that I understand you as asserting that God has some "special" plans or outstanding promises for the Jews as a distinct group. After the cross, there is no sense at all in which God sees the Jew as being distinct from the Gentile.

But God did have something to say about this; Romans 11 says a lot. :amen

In physical, national Israel there were the saved and the unsaved. In the NT covenant which involves the spiritual seed of Abraham (spiritual Israel), ALL Israel is saved! Yes, Romans says a lot. Only true Jews, the spiritual seed of Abraham, are in or ever will be in a covenant relationship with God! All of the promises are fulfilled in the Church, the true Israel of God!

Matthew24:34

 

[Vic C.]

^ That's Replacement Theology in a nutshell! :shocked! ^

 

[Drew]

But God did have something to say about this; Romans 11 says a lot. :amen

I see nothing in Romans 11 that suggests any sense in which there are any unfilfulled promises to the Jews.

Are you referring to the text about "all Israel will be saved"? Do you think that this is a reference to ethnic Jews?

I am convinced that it is not. Here, as in the following text in Galatians, Paul is referring to "true Israel" - a family constituted by Jews and Gentiles:

Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. 16Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

I agree with Matthew 24:34 about this - the "Israel" in Romans 11 (at the end of the chapter) is not a reference to ethnic Jews. I plan to make the relevant arguments in later posts.

 

[Drew]

^ That's Replacement Theology in a nutshell! :shocked! ^

I disagree.

Although I would ask Matthew 24:34 to clarify his assertion that the Jews were never in a covenant relation with God, I do not think he is advocating replacement theology.

And I know that I am not.

It would be replacement theology if, indeed, the church really was replacing the Jews as true covenant members.

But, as Pauls argues in Romans, the covenant promises that really matter, were never made to the Jews in the first place. So there is no "replacement" at all in the model I believe is the correct one.

In order to be "replaced", you need to have been selected in the first place.

Vic, why do you think Paul makes his argument in Romans 4 about how certain covenant promises were made to Abraham before his circumcision, that is before he was effectively marked out as father of the Jews?

My answer to this same question is that Paul is asserting that the covenant promise was not to Abraham as father to the Jews, but to Abraham as father of the Jew + Gentile family of faith.

 

[micaela]

I can see that there are disagreements between many of us Christians but let us not forget that we all believe that it was Jesus Christ that died for our sins to save us and that we are all waiting for Christ's second coming. That is what is really important. The only thing that we can do about the disagreements is pray that God will reveal to us the truth and that we will not be deceived.
GOD BLESS :amen

 

[Vic C.]

All of the promises are fulfilled in the Church, the true Israel of God!

Drew, that IS replacement theology!

I guess I'm just having a senior moment; I forgot you know everything and we know nothing. :bigfrown

I'm sorry I even let this side topic go as far as it did.

We' re going back to the topic of the Temple. totopic

 

[Drew]

Was a response of mine to your last post deleted?

 

[Matthew24:34]

^ That's Replacement Theology in a nutshell! :shocked! ^

I disagree.

Although I would ask Matthew 24:34 to clarify his assertion that the Jews were never in a covenant relation with God, I do not think he is advocating replacement theology.

And I know that I am not.

It would be replacement theology if, indeed, the church really was replacing the Jews as true covenant members.

But, as Pauls argues in Romans, the covenant promises that really matter, were never made to the Jews in the first place. So there is no "replacement" at all in the model I believe is the correct one.

In order to be "replaced", you need to have been selected in the first place.

Vic, why do you think Paul makes his argument in Romans 4 about how certain covenant promises were made to Abraham before his circumcision, that is before he was effectively marked out as father of the Jews?

My answer to this same question is that Paul is asserting that the covenant promise was not to Abraham as father to the Jews, but to Abraham as father of the Jew + Gentile family of faith.

Greetings, Drew: I meant that those of the physical seed of Abraham were never in the "covenant" of faith in which all true believers have always belonged.

In Christ, Matthew24:34

 

[Matthew24:34]

[quote="Matthew24:34":28ciqjgr]All of the promises are fulfilled in the Church, the true Israel of God!

Drew, that IS replacement theology!

I guess I'm just having a senior moment; I forgot you know everything and we know nothing. :bigfrown

I'm sorry I even let this side topic go as far as it did.

We' re going back to the topic of the Temple. totopic[/quote:28ciqjgr]

Vic C.--One last thought before getting back to topic:

Abraham was saved by grace through faith as are all who are beloved of God. It is the dispensationalist creation of two people of God that causes them to falsely accuse preterists of replacement theology.

It is dispensational error that causes them to long for Israel and for the other OT saints that for which they themselves never longed! Dispensationalists need to reread Hebrews 11. Abraham, even while in the land of promise, considered himself a stranger there. "By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country . . . he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God" (Heb. 11:9-10). What about the others of faith (e.g. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Sarah)? "ALL these died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland." They desired "a better, that is a heavenly country" (Heb. 11:13-15). Because of their faith, God was not ashamed to be called THEIR God (vs. 16). No one--I repeat, NO ONE, has ever been brought into a true relationship with God apart from FAITH!

The Church is the continuation of that faith. There is no replacement and there is no disconnect! God has not had Plan A and Plan B--He has always had plan A. His plans are not frustrated or thwarted as in the errors of dispensationalism. The writer of Hebrews ties that same OT faith of Hebrews 11 to that of the saints of the NT in Hebrews 12. Again, it is the wrong teaching of dispensationalism that creates two people of God that causes dispensationalists to accuse preterists of Replacement Theology. In order words, they create false rules and then accuse others of breaking them!

The Church is not Plan B--It is THE plan through the ages!

Matthew24:34

 

[Drew]

Again, it is the wrong teaching of dispensationalism that creates two people of God that causes dispensationalists to accuse preterists of Replacement Theology. In order words, they create false rules and then accuse others of breaking them! The Church is not Plan B--It is THE plan through the ages!

Exactly.

And this misunderstanding is relevant to the issue of the temple. Those who advocate for the idea that it is part of God's plan to return the Jews to Palestine often misrepresent the views of those of us who think otherwise.

How do they do this? By tarring us with the highly loaded term of "replacement theology". This gives people the impression that those of us who deny outstanding promises to Israel - such as their return to Israel - have a picture of a God who makes promises to group A and then "reneges" on the promise and transfers the promise to group B.

This is not what we - or at least some of us are saying - so please stop with the misrepresentation!

 

[Cornelius]

Well then I am not sure what you plan to call this building that is being constructed on the Temple Mount . This building is on it's way to construction everything is ready to go. The building of this temple in the next few years is an absolute certaintly. Did anyone look at the videos I posted or go to the http://www.temple institute website. The Jews call it the Third Temple and so does the Bible.

This is not a theory or somekind man made fulfilment of prophecy. I suggest the only people that use the term God's Temple would be those of the Jewish faith. As far as animal scrafice is concerned, the Jewish people don't believe Jesus Christ died for our sins so that I suggest this is the reason for animal scrafice.

To deny the construction of this temple and to suggest this won't be the temple the antichrist will enter into and declare himself god is just silly.

1) Humans can name this building anything they want, but it will never again be "The temple of God" (that is unscriptural)
2)Does not matter if the Jews do not believe in Jesus and want to sacrifice something. That in itself would not make it any more acceptable to God. He would just turn a blind eye to it all.
3)Saying somelike like "declare himself God is silly" does not change the Biblical facts, that the temple is now God's people.

I know you cannot see HOW an antichrist can possibly sit in the spiritual temple. You cannot see it because you think in physical terms still. Once you ask God to open your spiritual eyes regarding this matter, He will show you that this relates to a) death to self (that is the daily sacrifice) and b) those who put self as "God" in the "temple of God" and refuse to die to self.(antichrist)


C