What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

New guy intro

Jesse said:
God can not go back on His promise about flooding the earth again and the sign of that is the rainbow. He can not take back the work of Christ, God can not take away reward or eternal life for those who are faithful to Him, He can not go against what the Bible says. I think there are many more things.
All things are possible WITH God is that for those who love God and obey His commandments, when we ask in faith, He will answer and in this all things are possible with God.
Click to expand...

Very true. I see what you are saying.
 
Jonathan said:
Ha ha, OK, I'll take that as a challenge. Well, as you have seen from some of the other debate topics on the forum, there are some passages that support the concept of the election. But as you've pointed out, there are passages that support the idea of grace.

Here is a passage a Calvinist may use to support the idea of predestination(which inherentely implies lack of free-will to choose God/good/Truth).

Ephesians 1:4-5New International Version (NIV)
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[a] predestined us for adoption to sonship[b] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
Click to expand...

To me these verses say that God has chosen all of us to be His children, from the beginning, and that His desire is for us to be Holy and without blame. His desire was for us to accept Jesus as the way to be reconciled unto the Father. That is the good pleasure of His will.
 
Cturtle said:
Just briefly reading definitions of calvanism.......how is that a false doctrine? It basically says that we are saved by grace and not our own merrits.....am i missing something?
Click to expand...
Well, Jesse seems to think it is. But Calvinism goes a little further than what you've described. Basically, they believe that we have no ability to choose to be saved because we are totally depraved. Since you are totally depraved from birth you're natural inclination is to hate what is good and the only way you can be saved is if God elected you before creation to be one of the saved, this is also known as the doctrine of pre-destination. I am guessing your belief is that we do have the ability to choose Jesus and we are saved by grace through him. If this is the case, you are not a Calvinist. The passage I posted, Ephesians 1:4-5, is often used by Calvinists to support their theology but there are many others that are similar that you have to compile together to fill in some of the other details of the Calvinist doctrine.
 
Jonathan said:
That's a problem. If Christianity is the one true religion and if the penalty for getting this wrong is eternal damnation, I think it's God's responsibility to somehow reassure people when they do make the decision to ask Christ into their heart.
Click to expand...

God does lots of things to reassure His people, however the devil comes in also to try to cause confusion, and uses trickery or doubt to turn one new one away. It's the fact that good people make the wrong choice to believe wrong things because they do not know any better. But that does not mean that if they continue to seek God, He can't straighten things out. Ya know the new believer is not the only one that the devil tries to trick. It seasoned believers too.
The biggest key is Faith, and constantly talking to God, trusting that He will help us see His truth
 
Cturtle said:
To me these verses say that God has chosen all of us to be His children, from the beginning, and that His desire is for us to be Holy and without blame. His desire was for us to accept Jesus as the way to be reconciled unto the Father. That is the good pleasure of His will.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends upon how you interpret the passage. Some of your Calvinist friends on this forum may disagree with you though.
 
Cturtle said:
Just briefly reading definitions of calvanism.......how is that a false doctrine? It basically says that we are saved by grace and not our own merrits.....am i missing something?
Click to expand...
Yes.
You don't believe we are able to make our own decisions?
You believe that we are all predestined to either heaven or hell?
This is what Calvin taught.
 
Cturtle said:
To me these verses say that God has chosen all of us to be His children, from the beginning, and that His desire is for us to be Holy and without blame. His desire was for us to accept Jesus as the way to be reconciled unto the Father. That is the good pleasure of His will.
Click to expand...
Then you do not believe Calvinism.
 
Jonathan said:
Well, Jesse seems to think it is. But Calvinism goes a little further than what you've described. Basically, they believe that we have no ability to choose to be saved because we are totally depraved. Since you are totally depraved from birth you're natural inclination is to hate what is good and the only way you can be saved is if God elected you before creation to be one of the saved, this is also known as the doctrine of pre-destination. I am guessing your belief is that we do have the ability to choose Jesus and we are saved by grace through him. If this is the case, you are not a Calvinist. The passage I posted, Ephesians 1:4-5, is often used by Calvinists to support their theology but there are many others that are similar that you have to compile together to fill in some of the other details of the Calvinist doctrine.
Click to expand...

If the calvinists were totally right then that throws out jonh 3:16. Yes i believe that we are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus, and not on our own merits (eph 2:8-9)
 
Jonathan said:
I guess it depends upon how you interpret the passage. Some of your Calvinist friends on this forum may disagree with you though.
Click to expand...

Yes that is true, but that's not my problem. And i don't intend to argue with them either. They have a right to believe their own way. And it's not my place to change their minds, or judge them. I just quote the scripture (planting seeds) and it's up to God to do the rest. In the end i cannot stand accountable for what they believe. Each person's salvation is between them and God
 
Last edited:
Cturtle said:
If the calvinists were totally right then that throws out jonh 3:16. Yes i believe that we are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus, and not on our own merits (eph 2:8-9)
Click to expand...
Well, you see, that's the problem. Contradictory passages. Calvinists will find a way to explain away John 3:16 just like others will interpret Ephesians 1:4-5 in light of their previously held beliefs. That's why there are 33,000 Christian denominations.
 
Jonathan said:
Well, you see, that's the problem. Contradictory passages. Calvinists will find a way to explain away John 3:16 just like others will interpret Ephesians 1:4-5 in light of their previously held beliefs. That's why there are 33,000 Christian denominations.
Click to expand...

This example above is not contradictory passages, but people who think that they have the right understanding of the Word, and making it to fit into their own molds. They twist the scripture to fit their ways of thinking, and believing.
 
Cturtle said:
This example above is not contradictory passages, but people who think that they have the right understanding of the Word, and making it to fit into their own molds. They twist the scripture to fit their ways of thinking, and believing.
Click to expand...
And Jonathon is trying to bring another false gospel into the mix. :nonono
 
Jesse said:
And Jonathon is trying to bring another false gospel into the mix. :nonono
Click to expand...

Sometimes for the truth to be brought to a "ah ha" moment what a person believes has to be understood. That gives God room to move. Example...... if I believe that you are mad at me and i do not tell you i think that i think you are mad, how can i learn that you are not mad. Capeesh? :pray Just keep praying for God to remove all the barriers.
 
Jesse said:
And Jonathon is trying to bring another false gospel into the mix. :nonono
Click to expand...
I'm sorry Jesse, I guess your the only one that is teaching the right gospel. By the way, I guess I was right, I looked your age and your a young buck. You will mellow out in the years to come but try not to scare away too many non-believers in the mean time. I may not be a Christian, but I think it's the best religion out there and I think the more people that ask Jesus into their heart the better, so I am more of a friend than an enemy of the faith.
 
Jonathan said:
Cturtle,
Regarding contradictory verses, there are many. As a general rule, every single Christian doctrine has passages in the Bible that both support it and refute it. Name a doctrine and I'll show you what I mean. To give a specific example, John disagrees with the synoptic gospels on which day Jesus was crucified. Did the women at the tomb NOT go to galilee to tell the disciples what they had seen (as in Mark) or did they in fact go to galilee (as in Matthew)? Look at the genealogies given for Jesus in the gospels, they don't agree. There are so many, but that is just a quick example.
Click to expand...

in the gospels, (something that i too struggled with for some time) one has to realize that each interpretation is different because they were talking to a different group of people, and they were different people who were talking. So what they saw might be different. Now just because they have told the story different is not saying that they don't agree.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top