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Jonathan said:
That's a problem. If Christianity is the one true religion and if the penalty for getting this wrong is eternal damnation, I think it's God's responsibility to somehow reassure people when they do make the decision to ask Christ into their heart.
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Thats exactly how I think.
 
Jonathan said:
Bluegirl, no, I don't have a connection with Mormonism. Just used them as one example of a religion in which the believers rely primarily faith and therefore showing that faith isn't reliable.
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Amen! That is what is great about faith. Of course it is not 'reliable' scientifically speaking. That's the crux of things in following Jesus: leaving behind the things of this world, including the world's forms of verification. :) Yes, I know, you will say Christianity has no more way to prove itself than other religions. The answer is that only Christianity has LOVE at the center. That explanation (that it is the only one with LOVE at the center) and why Love is better than 'knowledge' and how LOVE relates to the tree of life and not the other tree is a longer conversation.
 
Jonathan said:
Cturtle, What I think is that God isn't really giving us a choice to accept him or not if the penalty of the wrong choice is eternal torture. Furthermore, what is to be said for those who seek truth with an open heart and mind and due to no fault of their own, chose the "wrong" wrong religion? However, my position is that even if someone knowingly chooses "death"(the term used in genesis), a good God would not torture the soul of this rebellious person for eternity. Is that what we do as parents? If your child turns his/her back on you and all you have taught them, do you simply write off that child as dead to you? Of course not. So why would God do this? What blows my mind is how Christians can actually believe a god that would do such a thing is good and merciful.

Regarding contradictory verses, there are many. As a general rule, every single Christian doctrine has passages in the Bible that both support it and refute it. Name a doctrine and I'll show you what I mean. To give a specific example, John disagrees with the synoptic gospels on which day Jesus was crucified. Did the women at the tomb NOT go to galilee to tell the disciples what they had seen (as in Mark) or did they in fact go to galilee (as in Matthew)? Look at the genealogies given for Jesus in the gospels, they don't agree. There are so many, but that is just a quick example.
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I have a child whom has nothing to do with me, but even though that really hurts id never harm her for that.
 
bluegirl said:
i doubt that faith and technology have any relationship. God doesn't need to implement 'security features.'
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Faith is not technology its a human feature that regulates our mental thoughts when they become cumulative.
 
Cturtle said:
A lot of people have fallen into religion and religious thinking, instead of reading, meditating, and seeking God's Kingdom or ways. They grab ahold of some deep philosophical meaning of what other men felt that the Bible said instead of reading and taking the Bible for what it really means.
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bluegirl said:
Amen! That is what is great about faith. Of course it is not 'reliable' scientifically speaking. That's the crux of things in following Jesus: leaving behind the things of this world, including the world's forms of verification. :) Yes, I know, you will say Christianity has no more way to prove itself than other religions. The answer is that only Christianity has LOVE at the center. That explanation and why Love is better than 'knowledge' and how LOVE relates to the tree of life and not the other tree is a longer conversation.
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bluegirl, I think your going back to using logic again if your going to differenciate Christianity with "love". I also must challenge you on weather or not love is really at the center. I'm assuming that your thinking the love described in John 3:16. In Christian doctrine, we are depraved from birth (due to know fault of our own except for being born human) and destined for eternal damnation for not some sort of divine intervention. I'd like to point out that in this scenario it is the God of the bible that creates us in this supposed flawed state and therefore he has created us with a sickness and then presents himself as the doctor that will cure us if we only ask for it. But why create us with the sickness to begin with and why threaten us with eternal torture? Where is the love in this? How Christians can love this God is beyond me. Perhaps it's some sort of "Stockholm Syndrome"?

The God I believe in doesn't torture His beloved creation. He heals us, every single one of us no matter how depraved. Do I have proof that this God exists? Not any less proof than the God of the Bible does.
 
bluegirl said:
Amen! That is what is great about faith. Of course it is not 'reliable' scientifically speaking. That's the crux of things in following Jesus: leaving behind the things of this world, including the world's forms of verification. :) Yes, I know, you will say Christianity has no more way to prove itself than other religions. The answer is that only Christianity has LOVE at the center. That explanation (that it is the only one with LOVE at the center) and why Love is better than 'knowledge' and how LOVE relates to the tree of life and not the other tree is a longer conversation.
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Faith is reliable bluegirl, everyone uses it almost every day.
 
nukedkitty said:
I have a child whom has nothing to do with me, but even though that really hurts id never harm her for that.
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You mean you don't want to throw her in a pit of burning sulfur? Joking of course. I imagine that's how God feels (hurt by our screw-ups) but I think He will heal the hurt, not create more hurt and suffering via eternal damnation. We humans are not broken beyond repair.
 
Jonathan said:
You mean you don't want to throw her in a pit of burning sulfur? Joking of course. I imagine that's how God feels (hurt by our screw-ups) but I think He will heal the hurt, not create more hurt and suffering via eternal damnation. We humans are not broken beyond repair.
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Unless we want to remain broken, God can fix anyone, but not the person who rejects Him. He's not going to force Himself upon us and he's not taking our free will away.
 
Jonathan said:
You mean you don't want to throw her in a pit of burning sulfur? Joking of course. I imagine that's how God feels (hurt by our screw-ups) but I think He will heal the hurt, not create more hurt and suffering via eternal damnation. We humans are not broken beyond repair.
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Don't christians always say "nothing is impossible for God"
 
bluegirl said:
Of course but it's not to be compared with the reliability of human forms of verifying truth, which was what I was trying to say.
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Oh bluegirl, its as reliable as any of our other faculties, that me must trust to survive.
 
Jonathan said:
bluegirl, I think your going back to using logic again if your going to differenciate Christianity with "love". I also must challenge you on weather or not love is really at the center. I'm assuming that your thinking the love described in John 3:16. In Christian doctrine, we are depraved from birth (due to know fault of our own except for being born human) and destined for eternal damnation for not some sort of divine intervention. I'd like to point out that in this scenario it is the God of the bible that creates us in this supposed flawed state and therefore he has created us with a sickness and then presents himself as the doctor that will cure us if we only ask for it. But why create us with the sickness to begin with and why threaten us with eternal torture? Where is the love in this? How Christians can love this God is beyond me. Perhaps it's some sort of "Stockholm Syndrome"?

The God I believe in doesn't torture His beloved creation. He heals us, every single one of us no matter how depraved. Do I have proof that this God exists? Not any less proof than the God of the Bible does.
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Jonathan
Ok. I think that where you are now what matters is mostly praying, talking to God, and establish that relationship. I certainly can't pontificate about God and his nature. I am a mere mortal. But like others here I can fellowship with you and get closer to the Lord! :)
 
nukedkitty said:
Oh bluegirl, its as reliable as any of our other faculties, that me must trust to survive.
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Ok, clarifying again - for me faith, Grace, the relationship I have with Jesus is BETTER than human faculties which are finite and limited. So I was just trying to say that faith in Jesus can steer me safely better than going on my own steam. I won't retract on that. I think that my own logic is faulty when compared to that of Jesus. I'll trust in Jesus when my own faculties are not enough. :)
 
Jesse said:
Unless we want to remain broken, God can fix anyone, but not the person who rejects Him. He's not going to force Himself upon us and he's not taking our free will away.
Is there anyone that wants to remain broken? The best example you may use is the atheist that is so angry at God that he pretends God doesn't exist. I don't believe that this is the psychology of most atheists but it may be true for some. I'm sure you'd say that this is exactly the kind of person God would NOT force himself on. Now, would God really say to this guy, sorry you rejected me so now your off to an eternity of torture? That angry atheist needs healing and why wouldn't God force this healing to take place? Why wouldn't God soften the atheist heart and facilitate love where anger and bitterness once was? This is what you wish you could do if you had a bitter child, why wouldn't God do it for the bitter atheist?
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bluegirl said:
Jonathan
Ok. I think that where you are now what matters is mostly praying, talking to God, and establish that relationship. I certainly can't pontificate about God and his nature. I am a mere mortal. But like others here I can fellowship with you and get closer to the Lord! :)
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Ha ha, I guess your right at this point.
 
Jesse said:
Unless we want to remain broken, God can fix anyone, but not the person who rejects Him. He's not going to force Himself upon us and he's not taking our free will away.
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Ok jonathan, as per your request heres a doctrine (Freewill)
 
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